3rdand12 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) What I'd like to see are people's initial W-L projections. Frankly, I think most had us at 4 - 5 at this point. Right? Agreed. That is probably by far the roughest road trip in the NFL (At Seattle, Monday night Football - good lord) , and the Bills looked terrific. I saw the future last night, and I liked what I saw-- a lot. Get on board people. With Watkins back, Dareus at full go and Shaq back and with 2 weeks off, look out. I can see us knocking out Cinci and going from there... 5-2 for sure and maybe 6-1 This , coming from you? I am proud of you. And some others here who can find some light in a dark moment. I think the season is over. But i hope to see continued progression even if it is slow Edited November 8, 2016 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 The second half was. Story of the Bills existence. Players make plays. We needed a three and out to get one more chance at the endzone. Got them to third down. GUESS who makes the play.... KYLE !@#$ING WILLIAMS. Players make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Players make plays. We needed a three and out to get one more chance at the endzone. Got them to third down. GUESS who makes the play.... KYLE !@#$ING WILLIAMS. Players make plays. My Boy. i recall how many were about cutting for cash. heart and soul baby / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 My Boy. i recall how many were about cutting for cash. heart and soul baby / I'm not a jersey guy, especially of current players, but if I were he'd be my guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 I'm not a jersey guy, especially of current players, but if I were he'd be my guy. have considered it. Not a jersey guy either, but he is the one. Probably after he retires. It will have to read K Williams though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Do you not think Big Cat (serious question) that the defensive calls on some of those first half plays - particularly the first touchdown - were reckless and left us exposed? I get what you say - players make plays - but coaching is about putting your players in the best position to make plays. If the players cannot run Rex's scheme on the backend then he has to adap his scheme. That is his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Yep it is about more than the TD play itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Do you not think Big Cat (serious question) that the defensive calls on some of those first half plays - particularly the first touchdown - were reckless and left us exposed? I get what you say - players make plays - but coaching is about putting your players in the best position to make plays. If the players cannot run Rex's scheme on the backend then he has to adap his scheme. That is his job. May i insert myself into the query ? Of course i might, we are all friends here.. Would you consider Rex asks players to test themselves ? If i had a long term plan, i would surely push my guys to the limit and beyond. Its a method of teaching, and Coaching perhaps. I think rex is still team building. He knows he has 3 years and wants to find out the limits of his guys. and he has by now. We as fans can see who wont be likely here next season, at least in a starting capacity I think, And that might include much of the secondary. The D line is solid enough for the most part*and the LBs are looking pretty good and should look even better next year, even though I am projecting Ragland and Lawson a bit. Gilmours has helped himself off the team and Darby is learning the hard way. ( watch him the rest of the season, keep in mind Stephon has been is mentor ). Hope he develops though. After A Williams and aging C Graham, safety has NOT panned out. I am of the opinion rex is still developing the team and has asked for what he expects from his secondary. If they are not up to task? and they seem not besides a few like NRC , there will be an upheaval off season. I know he was excited about the players brought in off season by Whaley, but the DBs have just not panned out as hoped. and to answer the original question, No I think they suck regardless to a player. He has offered help with coverages and changed them during the games, but sometimes guys have to have a one on one and win it. It might be by pressing on the line or disrupting a route, full well knowing it is a mismatch ( ala Gronk and Robey ) But those things are going to happen. should we talk about the D line now when these man coverages are called for? Edited November 9, 2016 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Do you not think Big Cat (serious question) that the defensive calls on some of those first half plays - particularly the first touchdown - were reckless and left us exposed? I get what you say - players make plays - but coaching is about putting your players in the best position to make plays. If the players cannot run Rex's scheme on the backend then he has to adap his scheme. That is his job. I don't understand how a player being "exposed" would be considered a negative to a person who has spent the better part of a decade hammering--simply--"players make plays." Every tactic can be exposed. There's no such thing as a the full-proof strategy. At some point, it'll inevitably boil down to 1v1. Last night, against the Pats* and against the Jets, our guys lost those match ups when it mattered most. Duke Williams v Mike Wallace in Baltimore--the difference between a win and a loss. It happens. Yes, it's a team game, all sports are. But it doesn't matter which sport it is, at some point, you gotta beat the guy directly in front of you. Edited November 9, 2016 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 No, it's very rare. It's also rare that they win when giving up as many points as they did. But I think we've identified the X factor: those two Graham plays. Bills fans of a certain ilk will call that an excuse. Whatever, if that's what they're going to believe, there's nothing you can really say to change their mind. But the reality is that there are players paid to compete and win on the other side of the ball too. And sometimes they're just better. It doesn't mean our guys suck. It doesn't mean we lost the game. It means the opponent was better. You can play a great game and still get beat. I think we did last night. Those two guys are combining for what, about $30 million a year? They've struggled getting on the same page and healthy but those are the plays they are supposed to make somewhat regularly- the type that can't be defended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I don't understand how a player being "exposed" would be considered a negative to a person who has spent the better part of a decade hammering--simply--"players make plays." Every tactic can be exposed. There's no such thing as a the full-proof strategy. At some point, it'll inevitably boil down to 1v1. Last night, against the Pats* and against the Jets, our guys lost those match ups when it mattered most. Duke Williams v Mike Wallace in Baltimore--the difference between a win and a loss. It happens. Yes, it's a team game, all sports are. But it doesn't matter which sport it is, at some point, you gotta beat the guy directly in front of you. So how little effect do you think coaching and scheme has? 20%? 10%? In which case why does it need to be Rex? Hell, promote A Lynn... coaching has minimal effect anyway and A Lynn will certainly be cheaper than Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 So how little effect do you think coaching and scheme has? 20%? 10%? In which case why does it need to be Rex? Hell, promote A Lynn... coaching has minimal effect anyway and A Lynn will certainly be cheaper than Ryan. If a play comes down to one guy making a play against another guy, then it's not coaching. Sorry. It just isn't. And there isn't a player past, present and future that will tell you otherwise. You can avoid mismatches all you like, but you can't avoid them altogether. Players make plays, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) If a play comes down to one guy making a play against another guy, then it's not coaching. Sorry. It just isn't. And there isn't a player past, present and future that will tell you otherwise. You can avoid mismatches all you like, but you can't avoid them altogether. Players make plays, Nice avoid. That wasn't what I asked. I don't disagree with any of that it is all self evident. I asked you given that how big of a part coaching plays, because to me (and I am probably biased I am a fully qualified and reasonably decorated coach in another sport) coaching is a huge part of team sport and it is the job of a good coach to put your guys in positions to accentuate their strengths and cover up their weaknesses. If our DBs cannot hold up in 1v1 coverage then Rex should limit the extent that his asking them to. It is that simple. A good coach fits what he does to the people he has NOT the other way round - because as you say fundamentally players make plays. If you have Jimmy and Jimmy can do X but not Y you don't design a system where Jimmy is asked to do Y because really you want Joe and Joe can do X and Y. Edited November 9, 2016 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 May i insert myself into the query ? Of course i might, we are all friends here.. Would you consider Rex asks players to test themselves ? If i had a long term plan, i would surely push my guys to the limit and beyond. Its a method of teaching, and Coaching perhaps. I think rex is still team building. He knows he has 3 years and wants to find out the limits of his guys. and he has by now. We as fans can see who wont be likely here next season, at least in a starting capacity I think, And that might include much of the secondary. The D line is solid enough for the most part*and the LBs are looking pretty good and should look even better next year, even though I am projecting Ragland and Lawson a bit. Gilmours has helped himself off the team and Darby is learning the hard way. ( watch him the rest of the season, keep in mind Stephon has been is mentor ). Hope he develops though. After A Williams and aging C Graham, safety has NOT panned out. I am of the opinion rex is still developing the team and has asked for what he expects from his secondary. If they are not up to task? and they seem not besides a few like NRC , there will be an upheaval off season. I know he was excited about the players brought in off season by Whaley, but the DBs have just not panned out as hoped. and to answer the original question, No I think they suck regardless to a player. He has offered help with coverages and changed them during the games, but sometimes guys have to have a one on one and win it. It might be by pressing on the line or disrupting a route, full well knowing it is a mismatch ( ala Gronk and Robey ) But those things are going to happen. should we talk about the D line now when these man coverages are called for? This is just one big excuse. Good NFL coaches should know what they have in training camp and plan accordingly. It shouldn't take a year and a half to see what they "have" or what the players are capable of doing. Man coverage puts Gilmore and Darby on an island and that is why most teams don't run it unless they have a Revis or two. As it is, that Rex Ryan defense in NY was really only great and #1 for two years and then fell off in points allowed to 20th! Ryan still had Cromartie and Revis in that third year. Gilmore and Darby aren't those guys and clearly play better in a different scheme. That is 100% coaching. So now the team will need to spend more draft / FA resources on DB's to fit Ryan's defensive scheme even though another coach came in and made use of the players on the roster (with McKelvin at CB) and that defense was #4 overall, points, yards! The man had six seasons in NY and never got back to that lofty #1 overall he attained in his first year. It's looking a lot like 8-8 or worse this year. Let's just face facts here. Rex Ryan is not a very good head coach and perhaps not a very good defensive coordinator anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 This is just one big excuse. Good NFL coaches should know what they have in training camp and plan accordingly. It shouldn't take a year and a half to see what they "have" or what the players are capable of doing. Man coverage puts Gilmore and Darby on an island and that is why most teams don't run it unless they have a Revis or two. As it is, that Rex Ryan defense in NY was really only great and #1 for two years and then fell off in points allowed to 20th! Ryan still had Cromartie and Revis in that third year. Gilmore and Darby aren't those guys and clearly play better in a different scheme. That is 100% coaching. So now the team will need to spend more draft / FA resources on DB's to fit Ryan's defensive scheme even though another coach came in and made use of the players on the roster (with McKelvin at CB) and that defense was #4 overall, points, yards! The man had six seasons in NY and never got back to that lofty #1 overall he attained in his first year. It's looking a lot like 8-8 or worse this year. Let's just face facts here. Rex Ryan is not a very good head coach and perhaps not a very good defensive coordinator anymore. It was theoretical, not an excuse. And i am not suggesting it is right or wrong. But i do think the players have made enough mistakes in the secondary to be called out. And not because of a poor match up. Thats another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 No, it's very rare. It's also rare that they win when giving up as many points as they did. But I think we've identified the X factor: those two Graham plays. Bills fans of a certain ilk will call that an excuse. Whatever, if that's what they're going to believe, there's nothing you can really say to change their mind. But the reality is that there are players paid to compete and win on the other side of the ball too. And sometimes they're just better. It doesn't mean our guys suck. It doesn't mean we lost the game. It means the opponent was better. You can play a great game and still get beat. I think we did last night. Just listened to a Peter King interview about the game and he agrees with you - that Jimmy Graham made 2 of the best 5 catches of his career in this game, while covered, and that was the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Donno about others, but I don't find losing fun. You gotta try and extract what fun you can out of an organization with a franchise record of 397-456-8... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just listened to a Peter King interview about the game and he agrees with you - that Jimmy Graham made 2 of the best 5 catches of his career in this game, while covered, and that was the difference. ha just proves what i've also been trying to communicate: doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this **** out. and also--a point that i've made elsewhere--bumbling bills team of the past had these mishaps against chester fezzywigh, newly aquired TE from the saskatchewon rough riders catching passes from a fourth string rookie out of north east montana community college. this was russel wilson and jimmy graham. it happens. it's okay. it sucks. but it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Not to be a downer but I went on record and said 5-11 at most. With the lack of receivers, the Dareus suspension/injuries, Aaron Williams out, Shady limited, and still no franchise QB this is a serious reality. I see 1 more win and that is it. Flame away but its reality when you look at the big picture. I had them at 8-8 or 9-7. They seem right on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 ha just proves what i've also been trying to communicate: doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this **** out. and also--a point that i've made elsewhere--bumbling bills team of the past had these mishaps against chester fezzywigh, newly aquired TE from the saskatchewon rough riders catching passes from a fourth string rookie out of north east montana community college. this was russel wilson and jimmy graham. it happens. it's okay. it sucks. but it happens. I get what you are saying.It has a fair amount of validty to it too. Jimmy Graham and Gronk can beat anyone on a good day. Sometimes two anyones !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts