Kaepernick and the National Anthem

[26CornerBlitz]

I am a veteran of the Gulf War so for me, the song stirs strong emotions. What better way to begin a sporting event than to hear the National Anthem played and celebrated by tens of thousands of people. The flyovers and parachute drops are nice, but for me, it is the song and the emotion that it stirs in an 80K fan filled stadium that gets me fired up.

 

If someone feels strongly in not participating, it is certainly their prerogative, but I feel it is disrespectful not to at least stand in observance.

 

I may not agree with the politics of places like North Korea, Iran, Syria, etc., but if their anthem were played in an Olympic venue, I would stand out of respect.

 

Now this I find very interesting. Respect for regimes that are the very antithesis of freedom.

[Delete This Account]

Ha. I agree with a lot of that. But I also protested when Tebow was tebowing, because he was forcing his religion onto the field. I have no problem with the mid field prayers of course. But he was literally singing hymns on the sidelines and it was infringing a political element on a non political game. In fact, this hasn't been brought up I don't think in this thread yet, but professional football is one of the very least racist places on earth. Players on NFL teams rarely show racial prejudices, blacks and whites get along on NFL teams better than almost anywhere, and even fans of NFL teams temporarily forget their hatred for each other for three hours every Sunday.

 

but what if Tebow was a Muslim?

And that's a very difficult question to come to grips with.

 

jw

Edited August 28, 2016 by john wawrow

[dave mcbride]

I am a veteran of the Gulf War so for me, the song stirs strong emotions. What better way to begin a sporting event than to hear the National Anthem played and celebrated by tens of thousands of people. The flyovers and parachute drops are nice, but for me, it is the song and the emotion that it stirs in an 80K fan filled stadium that gets me fired up.

 

If someone feels strongly in not participating, it is certainly their prerogative, but I feel it is disrespectful not to at least stand in observance.

 

I may not agree with the politics of places like North Korea, Iran, Syria, etc., but if their anthem were played in an Olympic venue, I would stand out of respect.

 

If you don't mind my asking, which gulf war? I know military people involved in the second one who thought it was a disaster and criticized the govt. in response (although to be fair, I doubt they'd sit out the national anthem).

[26CornerBlitz]

True, but shortly thereafter he was turning white.

 

Cruel, but funny as hell.

[Delete This Account]

And yet..what?

 

kaeprnqick's indictment of "this country" as being complicit institutionally with the killing of black men by a few cops and your own self flagellation as a white male do nothing to advance the discussion of racism in this America.

 

it's not a self-flagellation. it's a reality.

i'm white and i'm very fortunate. if you can't comprehend that, then i'm sorry for over-estimating you.

 

jw

[Flutie Flakes]

If you don't mind my asking, which gulf war? I know military people involved in the second one who thought it was a disaster and criticized the govt. in response (although to be fair, I doubt they'd sit out the national anthem).

 

Deployed during Desert Shield and was on station in the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm.

[dave mcbride]

I have a feeling that a star athlete from Wisconsin who got a full ride to a D1 school didn't have the full brunt of shackles in his life.

If this country was as oppressive as he makes it out to be, we would never even know his name, because he'd never beat out the white kid in Pop Warner.

Expecting a spokesperson from an aggrieved minority to be a member of that minority's lumpenproletariat as opposed to someone who obtained the resources to actually attract an audience generally flies in the face of history. After all, Alexander Hamilton had done pretty well for himself by the time he rebelled against the ruling govt.

 

To be sure, i know we're talking about kaep, who isn't especially bright.

Edited August 28, 2016 by dave mcbride

[LI_Bills]

 

Did he really disparage or desecrate the flag by refusing to stand up for the anthem? It's not as if he burned the flag or crapped on the anthem like Rosie O'Donnell did several years back.

 

IMO when he failed to stand in respect of our flag his statement was made...this thread validates it and I suppose was an easier and less controversial option than you suggest.

 

Am I the only one that remembers Rick Monday? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZzeEaBHUBM

[GG]

Expecting a spokesperson from an aggrieved minority to be a member of that minority's lumpenproletariat as opposed to someone who obtained the resources to actually attract an audience generally flies in the face of history. After all, Alexander Hamilton had done pretty well for himself by the time he rebelled against the ruling govt.

 

To be sure, i k ow we're talking about kaep, who isn't especially bright.

Your last line is the salient point. Which is what most people are forgetting about. Edited August 28, 2016 by GG

[dave mcbride]

Deployed during Desert Shield and was on station in the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm.

Thanks.

[Mr. WEO]

 

it's not a self-flagellation. it's a reality.

i'm white and i'm very fortunate. if you can't comprehend that, then i'm sorry for over-estimating you.

 

jw

 

 

So all white Americans are equally as fortunate as you, simply because they are white?

 

 

This is a media conceit, incredibly condescending and naive at the same time.

 

Kaepernick, a mixed race man raised by white parents is less fortunate than you as well, by your math.

[Delete This Account]

I have a feeling that a star athlete from Wisconsin who got a full ride to a D1 school didn't have the full brunt of shackles in his life.

 

If this country was as oppressive as he makes it out to be, we would never even know his name, because he'd never beat out the white kid in Pop Warner.

 

oddly enough, if some might have their way with walls, deportation and "extreme vetting" vows, some might never have the chance to make their case.

 

my point was and remains that people have the right to free speech. and i take no issue with Colin for expressing his right to his.

that he was attacked by those from the far right who called him certain names is absolute bull ****. (and i'm not suggesting you did so, but that it happened is a sad and unctuous reflection of what we've all become)

 

jw

[dave mcbride]

Your last line is the salient point. Which is what most people are forgetting about.

Your last line is the salient point. Which is what most people are forgetting about.

No joke - i'd take him in a second over ej given my injury worries about tyrod. He thrived in roman's offense.

So all white Americans are equally as fortunate as you, simply because they are white?

 

 

This is a media conceit, incredibly condescending and naive at the same time.

 

Kaepernick, a mixed race man raised by white parents is less fortunate than you as well, by your math.

Not really. Kaep won the one-in-100,000 sports talent lottery. That's freaking obvious.

[Flutie Flakes]

 

Now this I find very interesting. Respect for regimes that are the very antithesis of freedom.

 

I don't believe in interjecting politics into the equation. I would stand in deference to the athletes of the country represented. My standing in no way represents respect for the regime, but I simply would not sit, turn away or be disrespectful. Just not me, which is why I disagree with CK's sitting through the National Anthem.

[Delete This Account]

 

 

So all white Americans are equally as fortunate as you, simply because they are white?

 

 

This is a media conceit, incredibly condescending and naive at the same time.

 

Kaepernick, a mixed race man raised by white parents is less fortunate than you as well, by your math.

 

I'm not American.

 

jw

[26CornerBlitz]

 

I don't believe in interjecting politics into the equation. I would stand in deference to the athletes of the country represented. My standing in no way represents respect for the regime, but I simply would not sit, turn away or be disrespectful. Just not me, which is why I disagree with CK's sitting through the National Anthem.

 

Got it. BTW, Thank You for your service.

There has often been an intersection of sports, politics, and social change movements so this is nothing new.

[LI_Bills]

I am a veteran of the Gulf War so for me, the song stirs strong emotions. What better way to begin a sporting event than to hear the National Anthem played and celebrated by tens of thousands of people. The flyovers and parachute drops are nice, but for me, it is the song and the emotion that it stirs in an 80K fan filled stadium that gets me fired up.

 

If someone feels strongly in not participating, it is certainly their prerogative, but I feel it is disrespectful not to at least stand in observance.

 

I may not agree with the politics of places like North Korea, Iran, Syria, etc., but if their anthem were played in an Olympic venue, I would stand out of respect.

 

First of all, thanks for your service..and to anyone else on the thread who has served!

 

It's hit home for me the past few years as my young boys have insisted on salute/respect/silence during the national anthem. It's been a reminder to me of what a great country I live in, the struggles we face to keep it that way way and the struggles we face to evolve it.

[Delete This Account]

crickets

[Mr. WEO]

No joke - i'd take him in a second over ej given my injury worries about tyrod. He thrived in roman's offense.

 

Not really. Kaep won the one-in-100,000 sports talent lottery. That's freaking obvious.

 

Not by jw's calculus. He's still inherently better than off than keep, based on "DNA".

 

 

I'm not American.

 

jw

 

 

Nice try.

 

You spend time in this country i assume and you are white. Your point was clear, so you are qualified to answer the question. Go on..

[Kelly the Dog]

 

but what if Tebow was a Muslim?

And that's a very difficult question to come to grips with.

 

jw

I wouldn't want him praying to Mecca on the field the same way.