Preston Brown with an interesting quote..

[thebandit27]

 

 

Interpret his play however you wish but blaming Mario for the failures of Brown and the complaints of Dareus is beyond the pail.

 

And the legend of Kyle Williams is getting a little out of control. "If Kyle were here everyone would have shut up, done their job and loved it.". "If Kyle were here we would have had 8 consecutive shutouts". There is no question Williams is a warrior when he is able to stay on the field and he never quits on a play wrt his own effort level, but does anyone remember any other player ever giving him credit for doing the things that are taken as gospel here? A young player saying "Kyle took me under his wing and everything clicked"? A vet saying "Kyle got us straightened out and we went from there"?

 

You guys need to get ready for a rude awakening because Williams' popularity is the only thing keeping him from being scapegoat candidate #1 for Rex. He does not fit in the Rex system and probably won't have a great year this year. Rex will probably not directly attack him but say something like "If we only had a younger Kyle Williams we could have really done something after teaching him our genius system...."

Please don't attribute statements to me that I didn't make.

 

I asked quite plainly if there were any questioning whether or not Mario's effort was lackluster in 2015

 

I also made it clear that the defense wasn't good even with Kyle

[The Big Cat]

3 TDs and a 92 passer rating to Eli wasn't very good. It wasn't to the same level as NE and Cincinnati, but it certainly wasn't good

 

Wait, is there any denying that his effort was lackluster last season?

They were very good against NYG. Bradham makes that tackle for a loss and Eli throws for 160 yards on the day.

[Fixxxer]

 

 

Interpret his play however you wish but blaming Mario for the failures of Brown and the complaints of Dareus is beyond the pail.

 

And the legend of Kyle Williams is getting a little out of control. "If Kyle were here everyone would have shut up, done their job and loved it.". "If Kyle were here we would have had 8 consecutive shutouts". There is no question Williams is a warrior when he is able to stay on the field and he never quits on a play wrt his own effort level, but does anyone remember any other player ever giving him credit for doing the things that are taken as gospel here? A young player saying "Kyle took me under his wing and everything clicked"? A vet saying "Kyle got us straightened out and we went from there"?

 

You guys need to get ready for a rude awakening because Williams' popularity is the only thing keeping him from being scapegoat candidate #1 for Rex. He does not fit in the Rex system and probably won't have a great year this year. Rex will probably not directly attack him but say something like "If we only had a younger Kyle Williams we could have really done something after teaching him our genius system...."

 

WTF said that? Legend? Gospel? Tell me, if Kyle is a warrior that never quits, would you not consider him a leader if you were his teammate?

 

I believe, KW wouldn't have gone public with the defensive problems, he would have gone to Rex Ryan and voice his concerns about it, he would have tried to fix it in house and not go to the media with it.

 

Rex hates Kyle Williams because he doesn't fit his shceme? Talk about myths.....

[thebandit27]

They were very good against NYG. Bradham makes that tackle for a loss and Eli throws for 160 yards on the day.

Forgive me, but I don't think we can say that they were "very good" based on the premise that they would've been good had they made a key play that they didn't make.

 

Regardless, my point was that the team didn't really drop off suddenly when Kyle went out--they weren't good when he was playing

[The Big Cat]

Forgive me, but I don't think we can say that they were "very good" based on the premise that they would've been good had they made a key play that they didn't make.

 

Regardless, my point was that the team didn't really drop off suddenly when Kyle went out--they weren't good when he was playing

 

The Giants started off hot then did virtually nothing for three quarters. That's just how it went. It's just not accurate to say the defense struggled that day.

Marcel makes pretty good $ and he griped too. If you want to say Mario infuenced him, not buying it. He's a grown man. If the coach/supervisor doesn't know how to use the strength/abilities of his staff/players, it's going to be difficult for everyone to buy in. Doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks and it works the same way at any job.

 

Why even have players? Why not just hardwire coach's brains into a simulation portal?

 

I'm obviously being facetious here. And I think the coaches may be share some of the blame for the players not prepping the way they should have. HOWEVER the additions of Reed and Ryan2 indicate to me that the tone and the expectations for preparation will be set from the top down. If they didn't do it last year, it was their mistake. That they're making efforts to fix it now is worthy of some credit.

[NoSaint]

Forgive me, but I don't think we can say that they were "very good" based on the premise that they would've been good had they made a key play that they didn't make.

 

Regardless, my point was that the team didn't really drop off suddenly when Kyle went out--they weren't good when he was playing

I think the pushback is that many posters frame that as a game that we were pushed around all day in. Even with the missed tackle they weren't bad, without it they would've been exceptional

[mrags]

 

 

Interpret his play however you wish but blaming Mario for the failures of Brown and the complaints of Dareus is beyond the pail.

 

And the legend of Kyle Williams is getting a little out of control. "If Kyle were here everyone would have shut up, done their job and loved it.". "If Kyle were here we would have had 8 consecutive shutouts". There is no question Williams is a warrior when he is able to stay on the field and he never quits on a play wrt his own effort level, but does anyone remember any other player ever giving him credit for doing the things that are taken as gospel here? A young player saying "Kyle took me under his wing and everything clicked"? A vet saying "Kyle got us straightened out and we went from there"?

 

You guys need to get ready for a rude awakening because Williams' popularity is the only thing keeping him from being scapegoat candidate #1 for Rex. He does not fit in the Rex system and probably won't have a great year this year. Rex will probably not directly attack him but say something like "If we only had a younger Kyle Williams we could have really done something after teaching him our genius system...."

agree X1,000

 

Kyle isn't the god that many here claim him to be. He's a "good" player. Not great. Not even pro bowl material (I don't care what the rest of the league voted him as). He has not been that good for years now and he's benefited from having Maruo and Marcel next to him the last 3 years. He's also constantly injured. He will decline this year even more and then people will be calling for Father Time excuses.

Forgive me, but I don't think we can say that they were "very good" based on the premise that they would've been good had they made a key play that they didn't make.

 

Regardless, my point was that the team didn't really drop off suddenly when Kyle went out--they weren't good when he was playing

for the first time ever I left a game early against NYG. No doubt in my mind it was a clusterF$&K and a sure loss. As I left the stadium I was stopped by security at one of the exits as they held everyone up so that Pegula, his wife and Doug Whaley could pass. Even they didn't want to sit around and watch the crap on the field. Edited May 29, 2016 by mrags

[The Big Cat]

agree X1,000

 

Kyle isn't the god that many here claim him to be. He's a "good" player. Not great. Not even pro bowl material (I don't care what the rest of the league voted him as). He has not been that good for years now and he's benefited from having Maruo and Marcel next to him the last 3 years. He's also constantly injured. He will decline this year even more and then people will be calling for Father Time excises.

for the first time ever I left a game early against NYG. No doubt in my mind it was a clusterF$&K and a sure loss. As I left the stadium I was stopped by security at one of the exits as they held everyone up so that Pegula, his wife and Doug Whaley could pass. Even they didn't want to sit around and watch the crap on the field.

 

That game and the one the following week against TEN were borderline unwatchable. Against TEN they had 56 (I think) total yards of offense with about 5 mins to go in the third quarter. It's very important to note that in both games Shady and Sammy were out.

But make no mistake, both games were brutal because of the offense.

[NoSaint]

 

That game and the one the following week against TEN were borderline unwatchable. Against TEN they had 56 (I think) total yards of offense with about 5 mins to go in the third quarter. It's very important to note that in both games Shady and Sammy were out.

 

But make no mistake, both games were brutal because of the offense.

Man... That Tennessee game was some bad offense.

 

What an up and down year. I figured it would be but always hard to stomach

[thurst44]

Forgive me, but I don't think we can say that they were "very good" based on the premise that they would've been good had they made a key play that they didn't make.

 

Regardless, my point was that the team didn't really drop off suddenly when Kyle went out--they weren't good when he was playing

Actually, you can make a strong argument they WERE playing better with Kyle. It was when he went out that the run defense did drop off suddenly. In the first 6 games they were giving up 87.2 rushing yards per game, and in the ten games without Kyle, they gave up 120.7 rushing yards per game.

agree X1,000

 

Kyle isn't the god that many here claim him to be. He's a "good" player. Not great. Not even pro bowl material (I don't care what the rest of the league voted him as). He has not been that good for years now and he's benefited from having Maruo and Marcel next to him the last 3 years. He's also constantly injured. He will decline this year even more and then people will be calling for Father Time excuses.

for the first time ever I left a game early against NYG. No doubt in my mind it was a clusterF$&K and a sure loss. As I left the stadium I was stopped by security at one of the exits as they held everyone up so that Pegula, his wife and Doug Whaley could pass. Even they didn't want to sit around and watch the crap on the field.

Wow, really?! How about PFF who consistently have used actual play to label him elite? Their metrics are not the be all and end all, but I'd take them (and his fellow players who have voted him to multiple pro bowls and Top 100s) over one person's opinion.

 

Also, can we dispense with this notion that he's been "constantly injured"? In the three years before last, he missed one whole game.

[boyst]

Not really.

 

They were picked apart against NE, NYG, and Cincinnati with Kyle. His absence didn't help, but they were performing well below expectations even when he was in the lineup.

i really need to go back and watch kyle in these early games. i don't remember fully enough. was it his legs? was it is role? it just seemed like where he was getting was not where he needed to be. was it speed or assignment? something really bothers me about this - i'm believing that kyle would not have added to our abilities on defense and will now get mocked on this because kyle is defintely on the home stretch of his career and with this system we just diminish his ability to contribute.

 

 

My point is that Kyle would have never let Mario vent in the media about the problems the D was having, he would have kept the dissent in house, trying to figure things out.

how? you really think mario would give two craps what kyle would say? i don't even think incognito could get in on mario.

 

 

Were they really picked apart in the NYG game? That's not what I remember. They did a pretty good job against the Giants including keeping OBJ down, but didn't get much help from the decimated offense.

watch it again. we got slowly picked apart and strategically manhandled by a much better managed coach and quarterback duo teeing off against our predictable, slow defense.

 

Outside the one missed tackle, it was a pretty good day

 

Seems a little bold. If Kyle had that extreme sway his injury wouldnt prevent him from saying shut up

its the myth of mario. its going to grow day by day.

 

They were very good against NYG. Bradham makes that tackle for a loss and Eli throws for 160 yards on the day.

OOO

....very good... hahahahahahahahaha! you're hilarious. all that kool aid, you need some ovalteen or something. jesus, son.

[Fixxxer]

how? you really think mario would give two craps what kyle would say? i don't even think incognito could get in on mario.

 

 

No doubt about that. Mario doesn't do the heavy lifting, he's a follower, not a leader.

[NoSaint]

 

No doubt about that. Mario doesn't do the heavy lifting, he's a follower, not a leader.

Weird, in that you are kind of hypothesizing that he ignored leadership from the staff and went on to lead a revolt

[4merper4mer]

Please don't attribute statements to me that I didn't make.

 

I asked quite plainly if there were any questioning whether or not Mario's effort was lackluster in 2015

 

I also made it clear that the defense wasn't good even with Kyle

 

 

But you said Mario's play was lackluster in reply to someone implying he was not a cancer. It made me think you were saying he was a cancer. Can you see how I got that?

They were very good against NYG. Bradham makes that tackle for a loss and Eli throws for 160 yards on the day.

 

 

I looked in the game logs online and it appears that the Bradham play still counts.

[boyst]

 

No doubt about that. Mario doesn't do the heavy lifting, he's a follower, not a leader.

no saint is a %&+#-"-% who beat me to it.

 

Honestly, its funny that you said exactly what i figured. He would not lead a team but lead a revolt? What kind of leader is he? A leader by example? His example caused others to follow his role?

[thebandit27]

 

 

But you said Mario's play was lackluster in reply to someone implying he was not a cancer. It made me think you were saying he was a cancer. Can you see how I got that?

 

 

 

I looked in the game logs online and it appears that the Bradham play still counts.

Yes, I suppose I can see that.

 

I wouldn't call him a cancer; I would, however, say that his effort was a poor example for the young players. Not that his play is their responsibility or vice versa.

[4merper4mer]

 

WTF said that? Legend? Gospel? Tell me, if Kyle is a warrior that never quits, would you not consider him a leader if you were his teammate?

 

I believe, KW wouldn't have gone public with the defensive problems, he would have gone to Rex Ryan and voice his concerns about it, he would have tried to fix it in house and not go to the media with it.

 

Rex hates Kyle Williams because he doesn't fit his shceme? Talk about myths.....

 

People in here are saying "if Kyle were around then....." . I like Kyle, but that is a joke. First of all he has been here for 10 years. Secondly, as far as I know he did not break his jaw so he was in fact able to speak. And to your last "point", I did not say that Rex hates Kyle, I just said that Kyle's vulnerability to being a Rex scapegoat a la Mario and Brown is the fact that he has been popular for a long time. Rex probably learned a few things when he ran Freddie out of town and gave tryouts to 316 former Jet running backs.

Yes, I suppose I can see that.

 

I wouldn't call him a cancer; I would, however, say that his effort was a poor example for the young players. Not that his play is their responsibility or vice versa.

 

 

I can buy that. He definitely should have tried to do the things Rex was telling him to do....on the plays when the call got in on time.....even if he knew they would fail exactly like they did. It was his job and he should have done it.

[Fixxxer]

Weird, in that you are kind of hypothesizing that he ignored leadership from the staff and went on to lead a revolt

 

With Kyle not being able to address the media after games, for better or worse, Mario became the voice of the locker room. He was never a leader and never will be.

 

What kind of a leader tells his coaches that he only will play LDE?

[FLFan]

People in here are saying "if Kyle were around then....." . I like Kyle, but that is a joke. First of all he has been here for 10 years. Secondly, as far as I know he did not break his jaw so he was in fact able to speak. And to your last "point", I did not say that Rex hates Kyle, I just said that Kyle's vulnerability to being a Rex scapegoat a la Mario and Brown is the fact that he has been popular for a long time. Rex probably learned a few things when he ran Freddie out of town and gave tryouts to 316 former Jet running backs.

 

 

I can buy that. He definitely should have tried to do the things Rex was telling him to do....on the plays when the call got in on time.....even if he knew they would fail exactly like they did. It was his job and he should have done it.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Ryan "ran Freddy out of town" as you suggest. Nothing. The simple fact is that Freddy was an over the hill running back making significant dollars and the person in charge of the roster, Doug Whaley, made a decision to move on. Tough call, but the right one in my view. It opened things up for Karlos Williams to gain carries and experience for example, for a fraction of the money. As for the Fred was a leader arguement, that may be, but how many winning seasons was he around for? Same arguement with Kyle. The team needs new leaders in order to change the culture. Mario certainly was not it. Neither is Kyle Williams or Freddy in my view.

[John from Riverside]

I dont picture Mario sitting in the locker saying to heck with this coach......dont do this dont do that......

 

That would be giving Mario too much credit......

 

He has never been a leader of any team he has been on....he has been a damn good player...

 

but

 

This year you could see that he was not giving the effort.....I dont know if it is because he was not going to be back and didnt want to get hurt....or his heart just wasnt in it or whatever

 

To me it was more of......the past success of this defense RELIED on him being a rock at his position......and so when he was not that rock....some things fell apart

 

Rex did his part to screw this up though...it was a collective effort