Gil Brandt says Bills are Biggest Threat in the AFC East

[Kemp]

 

This is an example of Gil Brandt's poor writing. He states a premise, backs it up with facts, and then in his last sentence, says the exact opposite of his premise.

 

What was poorly wriitten?

 

Brandt says the Bills are the biggest threat to overtake NE, and never contradicts it.

[thebandit27]

 

That's fine, no one else is discussing it either, everyone just talks as if this team actually knows what it's doing and as if sticking our heads in the sand mitigates it somehow.

 

So let's move on to easier stuff.

 

What happens if Watkins goes down?

 

What happens if Taylor goes down?

 

What if both go down?

 

How do you envision our offense playing under those circumstances?

 

Is this anything that you've heard all the people applauding our draft even discuss seriously or at length in an analytical manner? I haven't seen it other than by journalists non-grata here.

 

As I see it we won't win any more games under either scenario much more so if both go out. And Watkins as we know is injury prone. For that matter Woods had his share last season as well with both players missing a combined 9 games. That's over 25% of the WR player-games for two starting WRs.

 

I would envision Buffalo's offense playing a lot like they did against Cinci and Jacksonville--try to run the ball as much as possible and get a few key plays down the field. If the defense can get better in year 2, then they'd have a shot in those games.

 

Now, answer this:

 

- What happens to NE/GB/Pit/etc. if their starting QBs go down? Or their #1 WRs? Or both?

 

Oh wait, the same thing that would happen to Buffalo.

 

What's your point?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

I would envision Buffalo's offense playing a lot like they did against Cinci and Jacksonville--try to run the ball as much as possible and get a few key plays down the field. If the defense can get better in year 2, then they'd have a shot in those games.

 

Now, answer this:

 

- What happens to NE/GB/Pit/etc. if their starting QBs go down? Or their #1 WRs? Or both?

 

Oh wait, the same thing that would happen to Buffalo.

 

What's your point?

 

Nattering Nabobs of Negativity rarely have any that make sense.

[thebandit27]

 

Nattering Nabobs of Negativity rarely have any that make sense.

 

I'm actually trying to be receptive to TG here...I'm hoping there's a point beyond "we're doomed if our best players all get hurt for a long period of time", because for me, that's among the most obvious of statements to even a casual observer.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

I'm actually trying to be receptive to TG here...I'm hoping there's a point beyond "we're doomed if our best players all get hurt for a long period of time", because for me, that's among the most obvious of statements to even a casual observer.

 

A good place to start would be getting some factual information in order to make a good case his posts. But in the interim......

 

[Ronin]

 

It's not about sticking heads in the sand just because I and maybe others are not interested in relitigating the 2015 season for the 1000th time on TSW.

 

What happens to any team if their key players get injured?

 

You can't move past 2015 and have BBFS. Enjoy yourself.

 

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring the wealth of people out there talking as if A, they understand this team, and B, are all saying pretty much exactly the same thing.

 

Either way, sorry to try to engage you, I see you don't have any answers yourself. So yeah, I guess I do include you in with the rest of them.

I'm learning so much here!

 

Apparently we're the only team that would get worse without our starting QB and/or #1 WR.

 

I've also learned that Sammy Watkins--who's missed a total of 3 games out of 32 (as in, played in over 90%), is injury prone.

 

Which team has a bigger dropoff in talent from Watkins/Woods to what, Woods/??? and from Taylor to what, Jones? Manuel?

 

Which of the other 31 teams has a bigger dropoff?

 

Of those, which are actually in contention for a winning season much less playoffs by the same pundits out there applauding our draft?

 

Meanwhile, Washington was depth and we still don't have that prolific edge rusher that just about everyone defending our draft said we needed prior to the draft.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring the wealth of people out there talking as if A, they understand this team, and B, are all saying pretty much exactly the same thing.

 

Either way, sorry to try to engage you, I see you don't have any answers yourself. So yeah, I guess I do include you in with the rest of them.

 

OK, good to know.

[Ronin]

 

I'm actually trying to be receptive to TG here...I'm hoping there's a point beyond "we're doomed if our best players all get hurt for a long period of time", because for me, that's among the most obvious of statements to even a casual observer.

 

Carolina lost Benjamin last year, who outplayed Watkins in their rookie seasons, and it didn't seem to affect them.

 

So I guess if we apply that logic, then if Watkins gets hurt during the preseason we're headed for the Super Bowl.

 

That sounds about right based on what I'm reading here. The logic is identical.

 

OK, good to know.

 

It is what it is.

 

What do you want me to do, beg you for some intelligent statements and answers to simple questions.

 

[shrug]

 

And we wonder why expectations here typically aren't met.

 

I would envision Buffalo's offense playing a lot like they did against Cinci and Jacksonville--try to run the ball as much as possible and get a few key plays down the field. If the defense can get better in year 2, then they'd have a shot in those games.

 

Now, answer this:

 

- What happens to NE/GB/Pit/etc. if their starting QBs go down? Or their #1 WRs? Or both?

 

Oh wait, the same thing that would happen to Buffalo.

 

What's your point?

 

All season long? Well, OK.

[thebandit27]

 

Which team has a bigger dropoff in talent from Watkins/Woods to what, Woods/??? and from Taylor to what, Jones? Manuel?

 

Which of the other 31 teams has a bigger dropoff?

 

Of those, which are actually in contention for a winning season much less playoffs by the same pundits out there applauding our draft?

 

Meanwhile, Washington was depth and we still don't have that prolific edge rusher that just about everyone defending our draft said we needed prior to the draft.

 

I'm confused.

 

Is your point that Buffalo didn't have a good draft because they didn't pick up a backup QB that you think can start and a #1 WR?

 

That's a horrendous way to gauge a draft.

 

Did they pick good players from winning programs that can contribute right away at key positions? That, to me, makes far more sense.

 

What you're talking about is depth of roster talent, not the quality of the draft.

 

Now, in that light, I'll say that nearly every team is in the same boat if they lose their starting QB. You tell me: who's prepared to win without their starter long-term? Maybe Denver?

 

They drafted an edge rusher with their first pick, his name is Shaq Lawson. I'm not sure what you'll term "prolific", but he had 12.5 sacks and 25.5 TFLs in 13 games last year. And by the way, there's a pretty decent pass rusher on the other side of him.

 

Washington isn't depth; he's going to start at 5-tech.

 

I'm really trying here, but what, exactly, is your point?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring the wealth of people out there talking as if A, they understand this team, and B, are all saying pretty much exactly the same thing.

 

Either way, sorry to try to engage you, I see you don't have any answers yourself. So yeah, I guess I do include you in with the rest of them.

 

Which team has a bigger dropoff in talent from Watkins/Woods to what, Woods/??? and from Taylor to what, Jones? Manuel?

 

Which of the other 31 teams has a bigger dropoff?

 

Of those, which are actually in contention for a winning season much less playoffs by the same pundits out there applauding our draft?

 

Meanwhile, Washington was depth and we still don't have that prolific edge rusher that just about everyone defending our draft said we needed prior to the draft.

I'll take a shot: Aaron Rodgers to Brett Hundley & Julio Jones to Eric Weems

 

What do I win?

[John from Riverside]

 

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring the wealth of people out there talking as if A, they understand this team, and B, are all saying pretty much exactly the same thing.

 

Either way, sorry to try to engage you, I see you don't have any answers yourself. So yeah, I guess I do include you in with the rest of them.

 

Which team has a bigger dropoff in talent from Watkins/Woods to what, Woods/??? and from Taylor to what, Jones? Manuel?

 

Which of the other 31 teams has a bigger dropoff?

 

Of those, which are actually in contention for a winning season much less playoffs by the same pundits out there applauding our draft?

 

Meanwhile, Washington was depth and we still don't have that prolific edge rusher that just about everyone defending our draft said we needed prior to the draft.

This is a run dominant team.....so resources have not been placed early into making sure our 2nd receiver is as good as Watkins

 

I think that instead of looking at how strong overall our WR stable is.....we need to take a look at who the "pass catchers" are on this team

 

for instance

 

We use our RB's a LOT in the passing game....and by the looks of things they can all catch the rock.....also.(and a very underused aspect last year) our true FB Felton that we insist on keeping on the team? He catches very well.

 

We have exchanged having a great WR stable for having a great RB stable and have "parts" in the receiving game that match our QBs strengths.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Carolina lost Benjamin last year, who outplayed Watkins in their rookie seasons, and it didn't seem to affect them.

 

So I guess if we apply that logic, then if Watkins gets hurt during the preseason we're headed for the Super Bowl.

 

That sounds about right based on what I'm reading here. The logic is identical.

 

It is what it is.

 

What do you want me to do, beg you for some intelligent statements and answers to simple questions.

 

[shrug]

 

And we wonder why expectations here typically aren't met.

 

Oh they were simple alright, most teams cannot withstand too many injuries to key players and the Bills are no exception. It's a pretty obvious answer.

 

Going back to the 2014 season to compare Benjamin and Watkins as if player development remains stagnant is pretty pointless IMO.

 

Expectations aren't being met because of Bills' fans? Is that what you are intimating?

Edited May 12, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I'm confused.

 

Is your point that Buffalo didn't have a good draft because they didn't pick up a backup QB that you think can start and a #1 WR?

 

That's a horrendous way to gauge a draft.

 

Did they pick good players from winning programs that can contribute right away at key positions? That, to me, makes far more sense.

 

What you're talking about is depth of roster talent, not the quality of the draft.

 

Now, in that light, I'll say that nearly every team is in the same boat if they lose their starting QB. You tell me: who's prepared to win without their starter long-term? Maybe Denver?

 

They drafted an edge rusher with their first pick, his name is Shaq Lawson. I'm not sure what you'll term "prolific", but he had 12.5 sacks and 25.5 TFLs in 13 games last year. And by the way, there's a pretty decent pass rusher on the other side of him.

 

Washington isn't depth; he's going to start at 5-tech.

 

I'm really trying here, but what, exactly, is your point?

FWIW, both Lawson and Ragland were 1st team AP All-Americans, at need positions, from the 2 teams that competed for the National Title.

[John from Riverside]

I'll take a shot: Aaron Rodgers to Brett Hundley & Julio Jones to Eric Weems

 

What do I win?

so we are comparing Aaron Rogers (a future HOF qb) to Tyrod Taylor (a late round pick who's ceiling might be a top 10-12 QB)

[thebandit27]

 

Carolina lost Benjamin last year, who outplayed Watkins in their rookie seasons, and it didn't seem to affect them.

 

So I guess if we apply that logic, then if Watkins gets hurt during the preseason we're headed for the Super Bowl.

 

That sounds about right based on what I'm reading here. The logic is identical.

 

Nice non-sequitur.

 

Tell me what WR Carolina had last year that is so much better than Woods. Go ahead, I'll wait (hint: not a single Panthers WR had more catches than Woods' 47 receptions).

 

But thanks for putting words into my mouth.

 

 

All season long? Well, OK.

 

Tell you what: as soon as you answer my question, we'll continue, since I've answered yours.

 

What is ANY team's model for winning when they lose their starting QB and/or #1 WR?

[Kirby Jackson]

so we are comparing Aaron Rogers (a future HOF qb) to Tyrod Taylor (a late round pick who's ceiling might be a top 10-12 QB)

No, we are comparing the dropoff as TG suggested. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/186469-gil-brandt-says-bills-are-biggest-threat-in-the-afc-east/?p=3945067

 

Matt Ryan to Sean Renfree, does that work better for you?

Edited May 12, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[thebandit27]

I'll take a shot: Aaron Rodgers to Brett Hundley & Julio Jones to Eric Weems

 

What do I win?

 

You win the chance to try to figure out TG's point...I'm losing interest in the practice

[Kirby Jackson]

 

You win the chance to try to figure out TG's point...I'm losing interest in the practice

I never mind when people disagree as long as their point is well thought out and valid. Without sounding dismissive, it doesn't make a ton of sense. The Bills can probably sustain injuries as well as most teams in the league (knocks on wood).

[John from Riverside]

I know I am jumping into this late so maybe I am missing the point? Maybe someone can tell me if i am way off base

 

- TG is saying that if we (god forbid) lost Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods became our number 1 that it would be Tyrod Taylor's fault if the offense regressed because he is not Aaron Rogers?

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

I know I am jumping into this late so maybe I am missing the point? Maybe someone can tell me if i am way off base

 

- TG is saying that if we (god forbid) lost Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods became our number 1 that it would be Tyrod Taylor's fault if the offense regressed because he is not Aaron Rogers?

 

 

Not too far off, he is basically saying that if the Bills lose Watkins and Taylor they are in trouble (duh). Bandit countered with, "Isn't every team in trouble if they lose their QB and star WR?" That is pretty much what is unfolding here now.

[thebandit27]

I never mind when people disagree as long as their point is well thought out and valid. Without sounding dismissive, it doesn't make a ton of sense. The Bills can probably sustain injuries as well as most teams in the league (knocks on wood).

 

Exactly.

 

From what I can tell, the commentary is that the Bills aren't real contenders because they didn't have a good draft, which is the case because they don't have a backup QB that inspires confidence and a second #1 WR aside from Watkins.

 

I agree that the above doesn't make much sense.

[Ronin]

 

I'm confused.

 

Is your point that Buffalo didn't have a good draft because they didn't pick up a backup QB that you think can start and a #1 WR?

 

That's a horrendous way to gauge a draft.

 

Did they pick good players from winning programs that can contribute right away at key positions? That, to me, makes far more sense.

 

What you're talking about is depth of roster talent, not the quality of the draft.

 

Now, in that light, I'll say that nearly every team is in the same boat if they lose their starting QB. You tell me: who's prepared to win without their starter long-term? Maybe Denver?

 

They drafted an edge rusher with their first pick, his name is Shaq Lawson. I'm not sure what you'll term "prolific", but he had 12.5 sacks and 25.5 TFLs in 13 games last year. And by the way, there's a pretty decent pass rusher on the other side of him.

 

Washington isn't depth; he's going to start at 5-tech.

 

I'm really trying here, but what, exactly, is your point?

 

Well, first of all you're taking some real leaps here. Confusion, well, apparently.

 

To start I've asked some specific questions and no one's answered them as if by not answering them the issues dissolve and go away or don't exist to begin with.

 

My point is just what I said at least twice early on, that we did not truly address our most dire needs. We've pandered to Ryan, a loser of a coach that's had his last five seasons of scoring defenses ranked 15th, 24th, 19th, 20th, and 20th while his novice predecessor took his 24th ranked scoring D and with a departure of players similar to ours this season if not worse, turned it into the 9th ranked scoring D.

 

The other point that I made that I thought was painfully clear was that Ryan then took what had been the 4th ranked scoring D and turned it into the 15th ranked scoring D and got 21 sacks from a unit that had what, 53 the season prior. That's a notable drop.

 

Relatedly, another point was that of the team that logged those 53 sacks in 2014, players that got 35 of them are still with this team, which should be more than enough talent to at least have the 15th ranked scoring D.

 

Meanwhile, we've all been spoonfed, by Ryan, the notion that he ran a hybrid of Schwartz's D last year and his. Well, OK, let's bite on that, OK.

 

So then, since Ryan routinely dropped both DEs and DTs into coverages, and since Schwartz never did that, wouldn't it be safe to say that that particularly contribution in Ryan's D was purely his? And that if it was truly a hybrid, then if anything we should see that increase, not decrease?

 

Still with me?

 

Put another way, maybe it's not the defensive talent which had Hughes, Dareus, Kyle Williams, Brown, Manny Lawson, and least but hardly not last, arguably the best CB tandem in the league in Darby & Gilmore.

 

Maybe it's Ryan, and it sounds to me as if Ryan needs world-class talent everywhere just to put together a competent D.

 

Yet, everyone talks about how little talent we have and talks about depth as if depth on D means more than starters on O as well as a QB that's capable of at least winning some games or grooming himself for the future. And let's be real, anyone thinking that Jones has a future as a starting QB in the NFL is ignorant, and that includes our illustrious FO if they happen to believe that. No chance in hell that a QB with 5 starts and not even 200 completed passes in college, primarily as a backup, is going to start in the NFL.

 

Everyone also ignores WR as a need, I didn't even see one analyist or "draft expert" talk about WR talent on our team, particularly given Watkins' being prone to being hurt and Woods as well to a lesser extent.

 

The dropoff from Watkins/Woods to what, Woods/Hankerson, ... or will it be Woods/Listenbee, ... or Woods/Goodwin?, ... is cataclysmic. Our rushing game would be suffocated.

 

I guess no one's thought that through tho. At least that's typical for us, nothing but the best for us fans.

 

Anyway, feel free to engage on those points, but that's the argument(s).

 

Again, did we really need D players that much over a competent backup QB which we've ingored for years? ... or a WR that's capable of nailing down a starting job, legitimately? I don't think we did and IMO unless by some strange stroke of fate we get those things, I think it's going to be painfully evident come September even if Watkins doesn't get hurt or Taylor as well. It also operates under the assumption that Taylor doesn't pull an RGIII instead of a Brady.

 

Ryan's a cry-baby. Man up and make due with talent that many other teams don't even have on D.

I'll take a shot: Aaron Rodgers to Brett Hundley & Julio Jones to Eric Weems

 

What do I win?

 

Do you think so? Think that's an intelligent response?

 

How many games has Rodgers missed over his 8 seasons of starting? How many the last two seasons?

 

Did you actually look at the WRs on their roster now? Apparently you think that Woods/Hankerson are better than their next best two. OK. Not sure what to say. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but unless Taylor is Rodgers, the comp is irrelevant.

 

Same for NE. Brady goes out and they have a rookie now. What are the odds that he doesn't perform or goes out tho? I'd say pretty slim. The odds that Taylor, a QB that rushes regularly, gets hurt are notably higher, wouldn't you say? Meh, maybe not. OK

Not too far off, he is basically saying that if the Bills lose Watkins and Taylor they are in trouble (duh). Bandit countered with, "Isn't every team in trouble if they lose their QB and star WR?" That is pretty much what is unfolding here now.

 

Funny how what I've said isn't even reiterated properly. LOL

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Well, first of all you're taking some real leaps here. Confusion, well, apparently.

 

To start I've asked some specific questions and no one's answered them as if by not answering them the issues dissolve and go away or don't exist to begin with.

 

My point is just what I said at least twice early on, that we did not truly address our most dire needs. We've pandered to Ryan, a loser of a coach that's had his last five seasons of scoring defenses ranked 15th, 24th, 19th, 20th, and 20th while his novice predecessor took his 24th ranked scoring D and with a departure of players similar to ours this season if not worse, turned it into the 9th ranked scoring D.

 

The other point that I made that I thought was painfully clear was that Ryan then took what had been the 4th ranked scoring D and turned it into the 15th ranked scoring D and got 21 sacks from a unit that had what, 53 the season prior. That's a notable drop.

 

Relatedly, another point was that of the team that logged those 53 sacks in 2014, players that got 35 of them are still with this team, which should be more than enough talent to at least have the 15th ranked scoring D.

 

Meanwhile, we've all been spoonfed, by Ryan, the notion that he ran a hybrid of Schwartz's D last year and his. Well, OK, let's bite on that, OK.

 

So then, since Ryan routinely dropped both DEs and DTs into coverages, and since Schwartz never did that, wouldn't it be safe to say that that particularly contribution in Ryan's D was purely his? And that if it was truly a hybrid, then if anything we should see that increase, not decrease?

 

Still with me?

 

Put another way, maybe it's not the defensive talent which had Hughes, Dareus, Kyle Williams, Brown, Manny Lawson, and least but hardly not last, arguably the best CB tandem in the league in Darby & Gilmore.

 

Maybe it's Ryan, and it sounds to me as if Ryan needs world-class talent everywhere just to put together a competent D.

 

Yet, everyone talks about how little talent we have and talks about depth as if depth on D means more than starters on O as well as a QB that's capable of at least winning some games or grooming himself for the future. And let's be real, anyone thinking that Jones has a future as a starting QB in the NFL is ignorant, and that includes our illustrious FO if they happen to believe that. No chance in hell that a QB with 5 starts and not even 200 completed passes in college, primarily as a backup, is going to start in the NFL.

 

Everyone also ignores WR as a need, I didn't even see one analyist or "draft expert" talk about WR talent on our team, particularly given Watkins' being prone to being hurt and Woods as well to a lesser extent.

 

The dropoff from Watkins/Woods to what, Woods/Hankerson, ... or will it be Woods/Listenbee, ... or Woods/Goodwin?, ... is cataclysmic. Our rushing game would be suffocated.

 

I guess no one's thought that through tho. At least that's typical for us, nothing but the best for us fans.

 

Anyway, feel free to engage on those points, but that's the argument(s).

 

Again, did we really need D players that much over a competent backup QB which we've ingored for years? ... or a WR that's capable of nailing down a starting job, legitimately? I don't think we did and IMO unless by some strange stroke of fate we get those things, I think it's going to be painfully evident come September even if Watkins doesn't get hurt or Taylor as well. It also operates under the assumption that Taylor doesn't pull an RGIII instead of a Brady.

 

Ryan's a cry-baby. Man up and make due with talent that many other teams don't even have on D.

 

 

The Bills didn't address their needs in the just completed 2016 draft? Is that a serious conclusion?

 

The Bills as a run oriented team have enough weapons for the passing game with Sammy, Clay, Woods, and even McCoy.

 

The Bills didn't have DL drop into coverage too often in 2015. You are simply exaggerating. I recall in the 2014 season opener at Chicago a Kyle Williams interception of Cutler as he was in coverage and Jerry Hughes also dropped into coverage under both Pettine and Schwartz.

 

Your lack of accuracy with information is astounding!

[Ronin]

Finished here guys. Not that I thought this would end differently, or that anyone would see anything other than the establishment's take which is mimicked by the braindead media, just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

Don't worry, this will make more sense this coming fall. Bookmark it and come back to it in November.

 

Sorry to have bothered anyone.

[26CornerBlitz]

@JoeBuscaglia

If the #Bills get improvements from these 5 players in 2016, they could finally put an end to this playoff drought: https://t.co/bcyITga3kH

 

 

(WKBW) - For the second straight year, the Buffalo Bills have built their roster up to the point where it looks well enough to compete for a playoff spot. The Bills added three rookies that will figure to make a big impact on the defensive side of the ball.

Outside of the rookies, though, the Bills will need a handful of their returning starters to have a bigger impact on games throughout the season. If those bigger impacts, combined with similar performances to the ones they saw last year from all their other starters, making the playoffs in 2016 could become a reality.

There’s a lot of reason for optimism at One Bills Drive, and it just comes down to execution. A list of five players that, if they get more from than what they did a year ago, can help change the year for the better:

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Well, first of all you're taking some real leaps here. Confusion, well, apparently.

 

To start I've asked some specific questions and no one's answered them as if by not answering them the issues dissolve and go away or don't exist to begin with.

 

My point is just what I said at least twice early on, that we did not truly address our most dire needs. We've pandered to Ryan, a loser of a coach that's had his last five seasons of scoring defenses ranked 15th, 24th, 19th, 20th, and 20th while his novice predecessor took his 24th ranked scoring D and with a departure of players similar to ours this season if not worse, turned it into the 9th ranked scoring D.

 

The other point that I made that I thought was painfully clear was that Ryan then took what had been the 4th ranked scoring D and turned it into the 15th ranked scoring D and got 21 sacks from a unit that had what, 53 the season prior. That's a notable drop.

 

Relatedly, another point was that of the team that logged those 53 sacks in 2014, players that got 35 of them are still with this team, which should be more than enough talent to at least have the 15th ranked scoring D.

 

Meanwhile, we've all been spoonfed, by Ryan, the notion that he ran a hybrid of Schwartz's D last year and his. Well, OK, let's bite on that, OK.

 

So then, since Ryan routinely dropped both DEs and DTs into coverages, and since Schwartz never did that, wouldn't it be safe to say that that particularly contribution in Ryan's D was purely his? And that if it was truly a hybrid, then if anything we should see that increase, not decrease?

 

Still with me?

 

Put another way, maybe it's not the defensive talent which had Hughes, Dareus, Kyle Williams, Brown, Manny Lawson, and least but hardly not last, arguably the best CB tandem in the league in Darby & Gilmore.

 

Maybe it's Ryan, and it sounds to me as if Ryan needs world-class talent everywhere just to put together a competent D.

 

Yet, everyone talks about how little talent we have and talks about depth as if depth on D means more than starters on O as well as a QB that's capable of at least winning some games or grooming himself for the future. And let's be real, anyone thinking that Jones has a future as a starting QB in the NFL is ignorant, and that includes our illustrious FO if they happen to believe that. No chance in hell that a QB with 5 starts and not even 200 completed passes in college, primarily as a backup, is going to start in the NFL.

 

Everyone also ignores WR as a need, I didn't even see one analyist or "draft expert" talk about WR talent on our team, particularly given Watkins' being prone to being hurt and Woods as well to a lesser extent.

 

The dropoff from Watkins/Woods to what, Woods/Hankerson, ... or will it be Woods/Listenbee, ... or Woods/Goodwin?, ... is cataclysmic. Our rushing game would be suffocated.

 

I guess no one's thought that through tho. At least that's typical for us, nothing but the best for us fans.

 

Anyway, feel free to engage on those points, but that's the argument(s).

 

Again, did we really need D players that much over a competent backup QB which we've ingored for years? ... or a WR that's capable of nailing down a starting job, legitimately? I don't think we did and IMO unless by some strange stroke of fate we get those things, I think it's going to be painfully evident come September even if Watkins doesn't get hurt or Taylor as well. It also operates under the assumption that Taylor doesn't pull an RGIII instead of a Brady.

 

Ryan's a cry-baby. Man up and make due with talent that many other teams don't even have on D.

 

 

Do you think so? Think that's an intelligent response?

 

How many games has Rodgers missed over his 8 seasons of starting? How many the last two seasons?

 

Did you actually look at the WRs on their roster now? Apparently you think that Woods/Hankerson are better than their next best two. OK. Not sure what to say. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but unless Taylor is Rodgers, the comp is irrelevant.

 

Same for NE. Brady goes out and they have a rookie now. What are the odds that he doesn't perform or goes out tho? I'd say pretty slim. The odds that Taylor, a QB that rushes regularly, gets hurt are notably higher, wouldn't you say? Meh, maybe not. OK

 

 

Funny how what I've said isn't even reiterated properly. LOL

I gave you a bigger drop off (as you requested) and right off the top of my head. You didn't say that they had to be on the same team. If they do Matt Ryan to Sean Renfree and Julio Jones to Eric Weems is a bigger drop off than Taylor to Mauel and Watkins to Woods.

 

Some other teams that fit (NE, Houston, Minnesota, KC, Oakland, SD, Pittsburgh (with Bryant suspended), Giants, Dallas, and New Orleans).

 

Baltimore too

Edited May 12, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[thebandit27]

 

Well, first of all you're taking some real leaps here. Confusion, well, apparently.

 

Not really. You panned the majority of draft analysts for saying Buffalo had a good draft; that's a point worth addressing, no?

 

 

 

To start I've asked some specific questions and no one's answered them as if by not answering them the issues dissolve and go away or don't exist to begin with.

 

My point is just what I said at least twice early on, that we did not truly address our most dire needs. We've pandered to Ryan, a loser of a coach that's had his last five seasons of scoring defenses ranked 15th, 24th, 19th, 20th, and 20th while his novice predecessor took his 24th ranked scoring D and with a departure of players similar to ours this season if not worse, turned it into the 9th ranked scoring D.

 

You may not like hearing this, but Rex is the coach. If he tells him GM that he needs certain pieces to make his defense work, then it's the GM's job to go get him those pieces, not to ignore him and leave guys like Tony Steward and Max Valles as game-day options on his roster.

 

I haven't seen a single person claim that Rex did a good job last year, but you seem to have seen it, so I'll take your word for it--otherwise this sentiment that you're apparently railing against is non-existent.

 

 

 

The other point that I made that I thought was painfully clear was that Ryan then took what had been the 4th ranked scoring D and turned it into the 15th ranked scoring D and got 21 sacks from a unit that had what, 53 the season prior. That's a notable drop.

 

Relatedly, another point was that of the team that logged those 53 sacks in 2014, players that got 35 of them are still with this team, which should be more than enough talent to at least have the 15th ranked scoring D.

 

Meanwhile, we've all been spoonfed, by Ryan, the notion that he ran a hybrid of Schwartz's D last year and his. Well, OK, let's bite on that, OK.

 

So then, since Ryan routinely dropped both DEs and DTs into coverages, and since Schwartz never did that, wouldn't it be safe to say that that particularly contribution in Ryan's D was purely his? And that if it was truly a hybrid, then if anything we should see that increase, not decrease?

 

You mustn't have watched much of Rex's D with the Jets if you're skeptical regarding his attempt(s) to marry the schemes. It was readily apparent.

 

His scheme isn't pass-rush heavy; that's one of the reasons he got by with mediocre pass rushers like Calvin Pace and Jason Babin. HIs scheme is predicated on creating confusion and forcing the ball out early, leaving short-zone clean-up to the safeties and LBs. There's no question that the safeties and LBs weren't up to the task last year. Is that on Rex?

 

Partially, yes. He needs to use what he's got better. However, the inability of guys like Bradham/Brown/Graham to make the plays he's asking them to make surprised nearly everyone.

 

And yes, I would expect to see just as much zone-dropping of DLmen. It's not as though nobody else does this--pretty much every team in the NFL does it. There's no reason to fear it as long as the remaining 10 guys on the field are doing their job. Dick LeBeau proved that 20 years ago when he brought the FireZone concept into relevance.

 

 

 

 

Still with me?

 

Put another way, maybe it's not the defensive talent which had Hughes, Dareus, Kyle Williams, Brown, Manny Lawson, and least but hardly not last, arguably the best CB tandem in the league in Darby & Gilmore.

 

Maybe it's Ryan, and it sounds to me as if Ryan needs world-class talent everywhere just to put together a competent D.

 

Yet, everyone talks about how little talent we have and talks about depth as if depth on D means more than starters on O as well as a QB that's capable of at least winning some games or grooming himself for the future. And let's be real, anyone thinking that Jones has a future as a starting QB in the NFL is ignorant, and that includes our illustrious FO if they happen to believe that. No chance in hell that a QB with 5 starts and not even 200 completed passes in college, primarily as a backup, is going to start in the NFL.

 

 

I don't know about world-class talent, but certainly better ILBs and safeties. That much was readily apparent.

 

I don't see anyone talking about "how little talent" we have; I've seen more than a few people talk about bad scheme fits, which we're doing here.

 

Also, if you're going so far as to call anyone that believes in Cardale as a potential NFL starter ignorant, you may as well go ahead and provide your reasoning. I think anyone that believes in Dak Prescott is mistaken, but since I'm fallible (as are you, whether you like to admit it or not), I'm not going to call you ignorant. I'll only say that 250-lb run-first QBs with slow releases that have never read more than 2 pass patterns don't often succeed in the NFL. Jones, by contrast, showed the ability to pilot a downfield passing game against top-tier college defenses en route to a National Championship. As I said before: I'd love to hear you spell out what you believe to be the difference between the two, and why Prescott is more NFL-capable than Jones.

 

And just so you know, college QBs with less than 5 starts have started games in the NFL. We just traded one away last offseason. So again, it's prudent to know what you're talking about if you're going to call others ignorant.

 

 

 

Everyone also ignores WR as a need, I didn't even see one analyist or "draft expert" talk about WR talent on our team, particularly given Watkins' being prone to being hurt and Woods as well to a lesser extent.

 

The dropoff from Watkins/Woods to what, Woods/Hankerson, ... or will it be Woods/Listenbee, ... or Woods/Goodwin?, ... is cataclysmic. Our rushing game would be suffocated.

 

I guess no one's thought that through tho. At least that's typical for us, nothing but the best for us fans.

 

Anyway, feel free to engage on those points, but that's the argument(s).

 

I don't know who "everyone" is, but quite a few folks on this board talked about WR as a need. That said, given that the Bills had the #1 rushing offense in the NFL (even with QB rushing yards removed as I pointed out earlier), and also attempted the 2nd-fewest passes in the league, it doesn't exactly make sense for them to invest a high draft pick in a guy that would amount to no better than the #4 or #5 option in their passing attack (behind Watkins, Clay, McCoy, and perhaps Woods), does it?

 

And again I'll ask: you keep harping on losing Watkins/Taylor, what team IS prepared to win games without their starting QB and #1 WR? It's honestly okay to admit that there aren't any; I'm not going to hammer you for it.

 

 

 

Again, did we really need D players that much over a competent backup QB which we've ingored for years? ... or a WR that's capable of nailing down a starting job, legitimately? I don't think we did and IMO unless by some strange stroke of fate we get those things, I think it's going to be painfully evident come September even if Watkins doesn't get hurt or Taylor as well. It also operates under the assumption that Taylor doesn't pull an RGIII instead of a Brady.

 

Ryan's a cry-baby. Man up and make due with talent that many other teams don't even have on D.

 

How has the team ignored the backup spot for years? Since 2013, they've acquired:

 

Kevin Kolb

EJ Manuel

Kyle Orton

Tyrod Taylor

Matt Cassel

Cardale Jones

 

That's not ignoring the position...in fact, that's the exact opposite of it. Now, you may not like the de facto players they brought in, but that's a different statement.

 

As to the WR position, you earlier lauded the Carolina crew that replaced Kelvin Benjamin, but conveniently ignored that none of them had as many receptions as Robert Woods (despite seeing more passing attempts)...so I ask you: what constitutes an acceptable replacement or a guy that can legitimately lock down a starting job? If you don't care to answer, that's fine, but it would subsequently be disingenuous to accuse others of ignoring your questions in the hope that they go away if you aren't going to answer questions yourself.

 

Like it or not, coaches ask for specific skill sets; all of them, from Belichick to Carroll. Should he have used the talent on the team in 2015 better? No question. Does that condemn them to failure in 2016? Not at all.

Finished here guys. Not that I thought this would end differently, or that anyone would see anything other than the establishment's take which is mimicked by the braindead media, just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

Don't worry, this will make more sense this coming fall. Bookmark it and come back to it in November.

 

Sorry to have bothered anyone.

 

Point-by-point above you...now feel free to respond in-kind.

 

And if you can manage it, leave words like "ignorant", "brain dead", etc. out. They add nothing and they water down the discussion.

[Talley56]

I honestly think, given the teams they are playing in the first 4 weeks, the W/L won't change a whole lot. They probably lose to Arizona in week 1 but there's a good chance they would have lost that game even with Brady. I think they still beat Miami and Houston. Those games are probably a little closer without Brady but I still think they win. Our game is a toss-up. This may open the door for us but the point is I don't think it makes as much of a difference to New England's final record as others are anticipating.

[3rdand12]

 

@JoeBuscaglia

If the #Bills get improvements from these 5 players in 2016, they could finally put an end to this playoff drought: https://t.co/bcyITga3kH

 

 

 

Fair assessment I thought. Puts enough on Tyrod to get the ball to Clay and Woods.

I had forgotten about John Millers tragedy, ( shame on me ).

The note about Graham and his relationship withe Reed is pretty cool too.

[dollars 2 donuts]

There is always one article every off season about how the Bills "could" be the new favorites to win the divison.

 

Then after week 8 we see the articles saying we are the "same old Bills"

 

 

 

 

CBF

 

 

Say what you will, CBF, but you can not knock our consistency.

[boater]

 

Maybe that limb he walked out on couldn't hold his weight.

Also.. a hard boiled egg for breakfast is a hard thing to beat.

[3rdand12]

I honestly think, given the teams they are playing in the first 4 weeks, the W/L won't change a whole lot. They probably lose to Arizona in week 1 but there's a good chance they would have lost that game even with Brady. I think they still beat Miami and Houston. Those games are probably a little closer without Brady but I still think they win. Our game is a toss-up. This may open the door for us but the point is I don't think it makes as much of a difference to New England's final record as others are anticipating.

Probably an all out scrum for a wild card from the AFC east : )

[thebandit27]

Fair assessment I thought. Puts enough on Tyrod to get the ball to Clay and Woods.

I had forgotten about John Millers tragedy, ( shame on me ).

The note about Graham and his relationship withe Reed is pretty cool too.

 

If analyzing two of the guys on the list requires the writer to state "if Tyrod Taylor can progress enough", then shouldn't Tyrod Taylor be on the list?

[3rdand12]

Also.. a hard boiled egg for breakfast is a hard thing to beat.

never heard that.

Sounds like an old sweater vest graybeard bit of humor. I have just the fellow to share it with

 

If analyzing two of the guys on the list requires the writer to state "if Tyrod Taylor can progress enough", then shouldn't Tyrod Taylor be on the list?

I think he is !

Sneakily done of course ; )

[billykaykay]

Not too far off, he is basically saying that if the Bills lose Watkins and Taylor they are in trouble (duh). Bandit countered with, "Isn't every team in trouble if they lose their QB and star WR?" That is pretty much what is unfolding here now.

Last years Dallas team is a perfect example of losing the QB & the #1WR.

[thebandit27]

Last years Dallas team is a perfect example of losing the QB & the #1WR.

 

Baltimore too

[Nihilarian]

 

LOL

 

Touche`!

 

Indeed. They also say the same things about draft picks every year. The hype on Goodwin was even bigger than it is for Listenbee, same for Graham, who frankly had a notably more impressive collegiate dossier than either. Preston Brown was a great value pick in the 3rd that should have been a late 1st or 2nd we were told, Bradham was really a high 2nd rounder, Kouandjio was supposed to be something instead of the nothing he is, the same things being said about Jonathan Williams were said about Johnny White who caught balls whereas Williams does not. Miller last year was supposed to be the OL steal of the 2nd round but he can't stay healthy and when he is he was not good either still leaving massive questions at RG and RT too.

 

Whaley's history with 3rd and later picks since his hire as Dir. of Pro Personnel/Asst. GM is almost non-existent. So any picks that develop from the 3rd on are gravy anyway. In six seasons we've had both 1st and 2nd rounders hit twice, in 2012 with Gilmore and Glenn, and again in 2011 with Dareus and Aaron Williams although to a lesser extent since Williams is merely serviceable as a starter and nothing special, low-end starting material.

 

So you're right, the odds of us getting two much less three impact players from this draft is not an odds-on proposition.

 

I don't understand the whole draft strategy this year. All the talk prior to the draft is how we needed an edge rusher to replace Mario, well this just in but Shaq is not that player. He's more of a hybrid pass/run DE and frankly, all the experts said better suited to a 4-3 which everyone says we're not using, so that is confusing. I don't like player comparisons necessarily, but from what they're saying I'm expecting more Phil Hanson type of play than of Mario type of play, which is fine, but hardly impact. He'll hold down on "edge" job but that's about it if it all plays out well enough.

 

As to Ragland, we now have two Preston Browns back there. Again, frankly, Brown's resume was just as impressive and his stats even more impressive and he didn't have the 'Bama D surrounding him. Either way, neither can cover, so who's got the middle? Seems to me we have a glaring coverage hole OTM, which is hardly good in the modern NFL. Factor in that we don't even have one good cover safety and the middle would appear to be wide open all the way down the field, again, hardly good in today's NFL.

 

As to Washington and Williams, either will be backups only and only take reps from someone currently ahead of them on the depth chart, the former on D the latter on O.

 

Everyone talks as if they know what Ryan's doing this fall when there's absolutely no concrete reason, besides rumors if those are concrete, to know.

 

It is perplexing to be sure. Meanwhile, has the team thought for two seconds what happens if either Watkins or Taylor goes out? We're screwed if either happens. Jones is a poor-man's Tebow with worse mechanics and a completely wasted pick. Everyone here's going to be thinking even worse of him than they do about Manuel at some point.

Interesting take on the defense, draft and probably should have stopped there. You made some good points in earlier posts.

 

Rex Ryan has a lot to prove this season and Whaley went out and got him the players he needed to make his 3-4 scheme work so he will have little excuse should the defense fall on it's face again this year. Ryan is lucky he has Whaley as his GM because if nothing else... Whaley knows defensive talent, IMO.

 

Bills fans in denial don't care to compare the 2015 defense against the 2014 defense simply because it doesn't fit into their optimistic rational for the upcoming season. The simple facts are that Ryan boasted that the Bills would be in the playoffs in 2015 and not just have the number four defense but have the number one defense.

 

"I'm not going to let our fans down. I am not going to do that. I know it's been 15 years since the Bills made the playoffs. Well, get ready, man, we're going. We are going."

 

"Fourth in the league is probably a little disappointing, to be honest with you, because that's not where my expectations are. I know we'll lead the league in defense. "

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/22828/playoff-promise-among-rex-ryan-statements-that-will-likely-prove-false

 

We're going alright, going to be 8-8 with arguably the best defensive line talent in the league. With a team that led the NFL in sacks fell to 31st in the league in one short year.

 

"We play defense based on our personnel, not just the scheme. I don't try to put a square peg in a round hole.

 

"The reality: Ryan has tried to fit a square peg in a round hole." "Ryan has declared -- stubbornly, one might say -- multiple times that he and Thurman will "run our defense," essentially placing blame on the players for not picking up the system."

 

And, to the fans here that adamantly state that team president has had no influence over the football side of things.

 

It was almost a year ago, in early January, when the Buffalo Bills called Rex Ryan back for a second interview for their head-coaching vacancy. Team president Russ Brandon was so impressed that he told owner Terry Pegula not to let Ryan out of the building.

 

 

Like I said, Rex Ryan has a lot to prove this year just with the defense and now he has, even more, player talent to run his 3-4 two-gap scheme or whatever scheme he chooses to run. Here is hoping the Bills defense is a top five unit again and is back in the hunt for leading the league in sacks. This team has far too much talent to be 8-8 again with a middling defense.

[thebandit27]

Interesting take on the defense, draft and probably should have stopped there. You made some good points in earlier posts.

 

Rex Ryan has a lot to prove this season and Whaley went out and got him the players he needed to make his 3-4 scheme work so he will have little excuse should the defense fall on it's face again this year. Ryan is lucky he has Whaley as his GM because if nothing else... Whaley knows defensive talent, IMO.

 

 

Like I said, Rex Ryan has a lot to prove this year just with the defense and now he has, even more, player talent to run his 3-4 two-gap scheme or whatever scheme he chooses to run. Here is hoping the Bills defense is a top five unit again and is back in the hunt for leading the league in sacks. This team has far too much talent to be 8-8 again with a middling defense.

 

No question that Rex has a lot to prove; I don't think anyone has said otherwise.

 

I also don't think that anyone is trying to avoid the comparison between 2014 and 2015, defensively. The only comment I saw was when 2-6 said it was a tired topic (I partially agree, but I still don't mind discussing it--obviously).

 

I don't think you should expect to see a top-5 team in terms of sacks; that's not Rex. He likes to force the ball out quickly...sure, sometimes it results in sacks, and I expect them to improve in that area, but he's more about incompletions and tackles for short gains--a la the 2nd NE game; that's the best example of Rex's defensive model from last year.

[Nihilarian]

 

No question that Rex has a lot to prove; I don't think anyone has said otherwise.

 

I also don't think that anyone is trying to avoid the comparison between 2014 and 2015, defensively. The only comment I saw was when 2-6 said it was a tired topic (I partially agree, but I still don't mind discussing it--obviously).

 

I don't think you should expect to see a top-5 team in terms of sacks; that's not Rex. He likes to force the ball out quickly...sure, sometimes it results in sacks, and I expect them to improve in that area, but he's more about incompletions and tackles for short gains--a la the 2nd NE game; that's the best example of Rex's defensive model from last year.

Au contraire!

 

In 2009 that NY Jets defense blitzed around 50% of the pass dropbacks and went to around 35 to 30% before he left the Jets. So, when he got here and blitzed almost less than 10% the majority of last years games I was more than taken aback. This is the man that stated "I'll bring everyone known to man at you" and then when he got to Buffalo he did just the opposite. Wait! That's not entirely true as he did blitz a lot on that season opener against the Colts (around 50% of the dropbacks) and then just didn't blitz much after that game. (except for that second Patriots game and again it looked like the Bills got pressure on Brady on about 50% of the dropbacks)

 

“Nope," he said. “I mean 30th in sacks is not real good. Wow. But nah, I expect us to get better. I really do. I expect us to get better and we’ll see. Like I said, it’s different for me. I’ve never been in this situation. You know I think the worst I’ve ever been in this league is 11th.

 

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2015/12/02/rex-ryan-goes-defensive/76668578/

 

Then when Ryan saw his team not getting many sacks went on the defensive and said sacks aren't that important and said that we just want to win. Well, sacks, QB pressures, hits, hurries on the QB all go hand in hand in disrupting the opposing offense and is exactly what made Ryan's defenses so good in the past. Kinda why I think the Bills wanted him in the first place.

 

What I think Ryan really needs to stop doing is dropping Dareus and Kyle into pass coverage. Last year against the Chiefs, Marcell Dareus was dropped into pass coverage on two of Alex Smith touchdown throws! I know these defensive guru's love their zone blitz, but dropping a 331 DT* elite pass rushing DT into pass coverage seems rather insane to me. But hey, maybe that's just me.

 

When you sort everything out it looked like Ryan ran a two-gap run-stopping scheme more than any other scheme last year. I think this was a big reason why the sacks fell off the chart. The players that the Bills drafted with their first two picks this year look to fit that 3-4 two-gap scheme. Now, Ryan could easily change things up and start calling more one-gap scheme plays (Like Wade Phillps and the Broncos ran last year).

 

I really do want the Bills defense just to get back to being as good as it was in 2014 and if that happens this team could find itself in the playoffs this year.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Nihilarian

[BuffaloMatt]

Does anyone else think that Gil is slipping? His recall for positions and the schools that players went to is still on point but he can't recall a name if his life depended on it. He is hard to listen to on the NFL radio. This article was Blah Blah Blah Brady suspension Blah Blah Blah Pats* still win division and oh yeah the Bills had a good draft. Garbage!