FireChan Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Pick away. Why are you waiting for me? Because until you accept terms, you'll hand wave. I'm not putting in work you'll disresgard. So this thread is about: Defense pre-Rex, Defense post-Rex, Tyrod, Roman, Rob Ryan, Marrone/Schwartz, and (evidently), who has the biggest dick on TBD. Cool. Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Because until you accept terms, you'll hand wave. I'm not putting in work you'll disresgard. Me. It's my fault I guess. Sorry to be the barrier between you and your first attempt at analyzing something other than the posters here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 It's my fault I guess. Sorry to be the barrier between you and your first attempt at analyzing something other than the posters here. You aren't anything but an enigma, and a fun one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 So this thread is about: Defense pre-Rex, Defense post-Rex, Tyrod, Roman, Rob Ryan, Marrone/Schwartz, and (evidently), who has the biggest dick on TBD. Cool. I do love your knack for breaking things down to its most basic....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Yes it does....if the defense was 2nd last year we would have made the playoffs.... I think a lot of 3 and Outs last year made our Defense look a lot worse than it probably would have had we made more first downs and kept offensive drives alive. I look forward to the Offensive side of the ball improving a lot, and with it a better D will result. You can't keep the D on the field for more than half the game and expect them to dominate - especially when one of your star players falls victim to his own mind games and is essentially playing with himself. The Bills won only three games where they had a worse TOP than their opponent. Games - Opponent's TOP - Bills' Outcome Colts - 29:04 - Win NE* - 29:57 - Loss Fish - 31:53 - Win Jints - 30:33 - Loss Thumbtacks - 24:29 - Win Sin-Sin - 30:00 - Loss London - 31:32 - Loss Fish 2 - 28.47 - Win J-E-S-T-S - 33.16 - Win NE2** - 32:55 - Loss Chefs - 30:32 - Loss Houseton - 31:53 - Win Filly - 35:02 - Loss Sunburns - 30:56 - Loss Cowpokes - 28:30 - Win J-E-S-T-S 2 - 20:47 - Win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 "Yeah but Peyton Manning 2015" is the exact same as "yeah but Trent Dilfer 2000." They're exceptions to the rule and you know it. Tyrod Taylor was an above average QB in efficiency only. Sorry, but he did not produce the volume of work needed to say he's in the top-half of the league. And that was objectively because he was hidden in Roman's scheme. He was not a feature of the Bills offense. I don't for a second think he won't improve. I don't know where you got that from. I certainly don't believe it's a guarantee, though. And I've been saying for months that QB and general offensive malaise cost the team more games in 2015 than the mediocre defense did. I shared a deep dive I did into long stretches of three and outs last year and how they, more than any other factor, were directly tied to losses. He wasn't a feature on the bills offense? Lol...what?!? So who was that guy tossing those beautiful deep balls all year and running for more yards than any bills QB ever last season? How anyone can complain about how Tyrod played last year is beyond me. Just because the guy isn't Aaron Rodgers doesn't mean he's no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) I think a lot of 3 and Outs last year made our Defense look a lot worse than it probably would have had we made more first downs and kept offensive drives alive. I look forward to the Offensive side of the ball improving a lot, and with it a better D will result. You can't keep the D on the field for more than half the game and expect them to dominate - especially when one of your star players falls victim to his own mind games and is essentially playing with himself. The Bills won only three games where they had a worse TOP than their opponent. Games - Opponent's TOP - Bills' Outcome Colts - 29:04 - Win NE* - 29:57 - Loss Fish - 31:53 - Win Jints - 30:33 - Loss Thumbtacks - 24:29 - Win Sin-Sin - 30:00 - Loss London - 31:32 - Loss Fish 2 - 28.47 - Win J-E-S-T-S - 33.16 - Win NE2** - 32:55 - Loss Chefs - 30:32 - Loss Houseton - 31:53 - Win Filly - 35:02 - Loss Sunburns - 30:56 - Loss Cowpokes - 28:30 - Win J-E-S-T-S 2 - 20:47 - Win Isn't from 28 to 32 basically a wash? If so: Thumbtacks - 24:29 - Win J-E-S-T-S - 33.16 - Win NE2** - 32:55 - Loss Filly - 35:02 - Loss J-E-S-T-S 2 - 20:47 - Win That leaves us 2-0 in games with low TOP and 1-2 in games where we held the ball longer. Doesn't this refute the point you're making as it relates to the 2015 season for the Bills? Anyone with eyes equalling or surpassing the number possessed by Carl Grimes should have been able to see that the defense sucked last year. If you can't see that then you are denying reality. If you want to find reasons to think they'll be good in 2016 I'm all ears. For example many are blaming the most talented player we had or a 2nd year MLB or injury numbers made to sound like they were somehow way out of line with what had happened in the past. Some are pointing out that we played well in the last 2 games, which we did....against Kellen Moore and a wind hampered Ryan Fitzpatrick. I just want to hear something that I can actually believe that indicates that the whole fiasco either wasn't caused by a buffoon of a head coach locked into an antiquated system or that a reformed head coach will be more flexible in 2016 or anything else that actually makes any sort of sense at all. "It's Tyrod Taylor's fault that we went from 1st to 31st in sacks" does not make a whole lot of sense to me. We had a solid defense in 2014. I don't think anyone would argue with that statement. When we have a solid defense again, what year will it be?....how many of the 11 2014 starters will remain?.....how much salary cap potential will have been lost in replacing defensive player that we might have been able to keep if Rex wasn't locked into a singular set of thoughts? Convince me that this is not a total re-build of the 2014 defense with the possible exception of Gilmore and Hughes. I'll even give you Darby as an incumbent because he would have been a good pick regardless of coach. That's what I see: Rex taking a very solid 2014 defense and needing to replace 8 of the 11 starters to get it back to a level at least somewhat below where it started. I do not blame Tyrod Taylor for any of that. Edited March 26, 2016 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Doesn't the defense getting themselves off the field and preventing opposing offenses from having sustained drives matter precisely as much as the Bills offense sustaining drives (if not more)? Last season the Bills offense improved from the previous season and the defense got worse from the previous season. Also, I agree that 28-32 minutes TOP is basically a wash. Edited March 26, 2016 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Isn't from 28 to 32 basically a wash? If so: Thumbtacks - 24:29 - Win J-E-S-T-S - 33.16 - Win NE2** - 32:55 - Loss Filly - 35:02 - Loss J-E-S-T-S 2 - 20:47 - Win That leaves us 2-0 in games with low TOP and 1-2 in games where we held the ball longer. Doesn't this refute the point you're making as it relates to the 2015 season for the Bills? You are reading this backwards (I did too initially). That is the Opponents TOP. So we are 2-0 with opponents low TOP and 1-2 with opponents high TOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 You are reading this backwards (I did too initially). That is the Opponents TOP. So we are 2-0 with opponents low TOP and 1-2 with opponents high TOP. Thanks. I did miss that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) He wasn't a feature on the bills offense? Lol...what?!? So who was that guy tossing those beautiful deep balls all year and running for more yards than any bills QB ever last season? How anyone can complain about how Tyrod played last year is beyond me. Just because the guy isn't Aaron Rodgers doesn't mean he's no good. He was not a feature. This is objective. As a team the Bills finished 31st in pass attempts per game and 2nd in rush attempts per game. If you read and understood the many posts here and elsewhere from many different people, then TT's limitations shouldn't be "beyond" you. He could be a top 15 may be top 10 QB but he simply is not yet. You aren't anything but an enigma, and a fun one at that.At least I actually talk about football. Edited March 26, 2016 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) 2014 games DET - Bills offense gets 2 first downs in it's first 5 drives. Bills defense forces 3 punts, an interception, and allow 1 TD. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. 1st NE game - Bills offense gets 1 first down in its first 4 drives, including throwing the interception on their own 26. Bills defense allows 1 TD in NE's first 5 drives, notably after the interception in poor field position. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. MIN - Bills offense run 20 plays in their first 4 drives, including 2 fumbles. Bills defense 2 punts and 2 interceptions, and allow one field goal in that time. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. NYJ - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs after Bills defense forces 2 interceptions. Bills defense responds by forcing third interception. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. KC - Bills offense gets 1 first down in 3 straight drives. Bills defense allows 1 FG, 2 punts and forces a fumble. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. Miami - Bills offense gets 2 first downs in 5 straight drives. Bills defense allows 1 TD and 1 FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. NYJ - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. CLE - Bills offense runs 4 plays and punts twice, throws an interception after 1 first down, goes 3 and out twice, misses a FG after gaining 1 first down and then throws an interception after 3 plays.. Bills defense allows 1 FG, forces 4 punts, and forces an interception. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. DEN - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 TD and force a fumble. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. GB - Bills offense has a 5 play drive ending in a punt, followed by back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense forces a 4 play punt, 2 3 and outs, and allows a FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. OAK - Bills offense throws a pick after 6 plays and has 5 straight 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 TD, 1 FG and forces 4 3 and outs. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. Need I go on? Good defenses get off the field. When they do, you win more games. Edited March 26, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 We need a minimum two defensive starters out of this draft, and at least one of them to be probowl caliber, I'm thinking... but all the skill in the world won't matter if the schemes suck, so we'll see what the Ryan brothers draw up. I'm not expecting a winning record this year, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 2014 games DET - Bills offense gets 2 first downs in it's first 5 drives. Bills defense forces 3 punts, an interception, and allow 1 TD. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. 1st NE game - Bills offense gets 1 first down in its first 4 drives, including throwing the interception on their own 26. Bills defense allows 1 TD in NE's first 5 drives, notably after the interception in poor field position. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. MIN - Bills offense run 20 plays in their first 4 drives, including 2 fumbles. Bills defense 2 punts and 2 interceptions, and allow one field goal in that time. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. NYJ - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs after Bills defense forces 2 interceptions. Bills defense responds by forcing third interception. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. KC - Bills offense gets 1 first down in 3 straight drives. Bills defense allows 1 FG, 2 punts and forces a fumble. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. Miami - Bills offense gets 2 first downs in 5 straight drives. Bills defense allows 1 TD and 1 FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. NYJ - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. CLE - Bills offense runs 4 plays and punts twice, throws an interception after 1 first down, goes 3 and out twice, misses a FG after gaining 1 first down and then throws an interception after 3 plays.. Bills defense allows 1 FG, forces 4 punts, and forces an interception. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. DEN - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 TD and force a fumble. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. GB - Bills offense has a 5 play drive ending in a punt, followed by back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense forces a 4 play punt, 2 3 and outs, and allows a FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. OAK - Bills offense throws a pick after 6 plays and has 5 straight 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 TD, 1 FG and forces 4 3 and outs. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game. Need I go on? Good defenses get off the field. When they do, you win more games. Be still my heart. At first blush the severity of these droughts don't seem comparable. I'll do a side by side. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 If you are true to your convictions nobody else on the board should be able to sway you. Yes John but how many of us know enough about anything that we should completely ignore the views of others? My views have been changed based on things I read on this board. It wasn't really so long ago that the keys to winning football games were to run the ball successfully, and prevent your opponent from doing the same. If I held steadfast to my views I would still believe this, and those days are long gone. I didn't think getting McCoy was such a bad idea until I read some views here and was honest with myself. Giving him a new, fat contract was a very, very bad move by Whaley. And btw, I expect Whaley and Rex to be gone before the 2017 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Might as well dredge up field position and ST play too. Between seasons 14 - 15? there was a noticeable difference in the quality of play. I am going to get all statted up. But if you guys are going to go at... 3 facets correct? Yes John but how many of us know enough about anything that we should completely ignore the views of others? My views have been changed based on things I read on this board.It wasn't really so long ago that the keys to winning football games were to run the ball successfully, and prevent your opponent from doing the same. If I held steadfast to my views I would still believe this, and those days are long gone.I didn't think getting McCoy was such a bad idea until I read some views here and was honest with myself. Giving him a new, fat contract was a very, very bad move by Whaley.And btw, I expect Whaley and Rex to be gone before the 2017 season. The break will do you well. I took a long hiatus from the Bills and I am better for it now. Don't take it nearly as seriously as once did. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 The severity of the droughts? Jesus your really reaching. But it's funny, keep going. If I am the numbers will show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 If I am the numbers will show it. I want to make sure I understand something. Are you saying the Orton offense was better than the Taylor offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I want to make sure I understand something. Are you saying the Orton offense was better than the Taylor offense? He thinks 2 3 and outs are the difference between a good defense and a bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 He thinks 2 3 and outs are the difference between a good defense and a bad one. And going from 1st to 31st to sacks is Tyrod Taylor's fault I suppose. 1st to 31st. It is incredibly hard to believe that something like that could ever happen to any team. Comparing them to 2014's Orton O should be interesting but I also wonder how many 3 and outs Manning and Osweiler put up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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