The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 i don't think it is certain that we would not have got tyrod. we needed a qb. we had more to offer than any other team. whaley needed a qb - it makes sense that tyrod would have been high on the radar. i don't think it's certain either. but i also don't think it's certain he WOULD have been with the team, so it's unfair to take it as a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I think the argument would have intensified, actually. Marrone/Schwartz would have likely meant no TT: if, in fact, it was Rex who pushed to bring him in. So who the hell would have been the quarterback? And what the hell kind of impact would he have had on wins/losses? And how much of that would have been blamed on Marrone? How much of it would have been warranted? Lets keep in mind that also would have meant no Roman.....and all the implications that would have had to the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Lets keep in mind that also would have meant no Roman.....and all the implications that would have had to the situation. Great point. Spiller, Jackson, McCoy, Herron, Gillslie, Boobie, Karlos, Felton, Brown, Summers, Wood: we can't profess to know who would have contributed or not have contributed what. Edited March 25, 2016 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) What was actually said was flippant and utterly incorrect. Your pathetic attempts to wiggle out from underneath the weight of your own arrogant brand of aggressive ignorance are equally misguided. Get used to it. He has the time and patience to beat it into our heads to NOT think that Rex is a phony, self serving huckster. TBC seems to demand that we don't blame Rex. We should even be glad that we hired his loser brother. Now, Tyrod was what was wrong with the Bills, and if you don't march lockstep to this nonsense you might have a problem. Edited March 25, 2016 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 to the OP. Like a Phoenix, they will rise from the ashes. The crash and burn happened in week two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Get used to it. He has the time and patience to beat it into our heads to NOT think that Rex is a phony, self serving huckster. TBC seems to demand that we don't blame Rex. We should even be glad that we hired his loser brother. Now, Tyrod was what was wrong with the Bills, and if you don't march lockstep to this nonsense you might have a problem. If you are true to your convictions nobody else on the board should be able to sway you. I personally do not think Rex Ryan is a phony.....but I do think he made mistakes. but because I dont believe he is a phone I think these mistakes can be corrected. One of the CORRECT things he did was bring in Roman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I think the argument would have intensified, actually. Marrone/Schwartz would have likely meant no TT: if, in fact, it was Rex who pushed to bring him in. So who the hell would have been the quarterback? And what the hell kind of impact would he have had on wins/losses? And how much of that would have been blamed on Marrone? How much of it would have been warranted? While I agree that Rex > Marrone because even though he is a complete disaster at least he is a decent guy. It is so sad that the "offensive genius" destroyed the offense then the "defensive genius" destroyed the defense. Bills fans deserve better than to have coaches who can never question the one thing they "know". Rex "knowing" defense has already destroyed our 2016. That doesn't mean Marrone wouldn't have destroyed us too. Edited March 26, 2016 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I'm not sure some people have been able to put what happened last season into proper perspective: the Broncos won the Super Bowl with LITERALLY the worst quarterback in all of football. Could you make the argument that you maybe would've taken him over a handful of starting QB's in the league in the playoffs due to his experience? Sure. Maybe a handful. But dude, to make this about Tyrod Taylor again? The Bills offense finished 13th/12th in total offense/scoring. If you don't think they could've WON THE SUPER BOWL (not saying they would've but they could've- they obviously would've made the playoffs) with the 2014 Jim Schwartz defense, then I really question your football acumen. Defense is kind of important. The key phrase is "with the 2014 Jim Schwartz defense." The Wrex D of 2015 was abysmal. Will the 2016 D be better? Considering that Wrex seems to be stubbornly doubling down on his "my way or the highway" approach (which some commentators consider out of date in the current style of NFL play), plus bringing in brother Boob whose record ain't stellar, the departure of several D players in part because "they didn't fit the scheme" (some call that rebuilding tho it's weird to rebuild what was a top D before the Wrexer came to town), Wrex's strange ongoing negativity towards Preston Brown who, only a year prior, was considered such a smart, talented player that the Bills traded Kiko and handed the D quarterbacking to him, and uncertainty about how he intends to use Dareus and Kyle. I went to the first Bills training camp at Seymour Knox's polo field in 1960 and have been following the Bills ever since. This team is far from the worst of all time; in fact, it's one of the better ones from the front office thru scouting to personnel. The fly in the ointment remains the big mouthed head coach who reminds me of no one as much as Joel Collier, a previous "genius" who, having OJ as his top pick, proceeded to use him as decoy! That bullheadedness led to his firing and to the return of Lou Saban (still the greatest coach in Bills history). So there's hope. Edited March 25, 2016 by yungmack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 The key phrase is "with the 2014 Jim Schwartz defense." The Wrex D of 2015 was abysmal. Will the 2016 D be better? Considering that Wrex seems to be stubbornly doubling down on his "my way or the highway" approach (which some commentators consider out of date in the current style of NFL play), plus bringing in brother Boob whose record ain't stellar, the departure of several D players in part because "they didn't fit the scheme" (some call that rebuilding tho it's weird to rebuild what was a top D before the Wrexer came to town), Wrex's strange ongoing negativity towards Preston Brown who, only a year prior, was considered such a smart, talented player that the Bills traded Kiko and handed the D quarterbacking to him, and uncertainty about how he intends to use Dareus and Kyle. I went to the first Bills training camp at Seymour Knox's polo field in 1960 and have been following the Bills ever since. This team is far from the worst of all time; in fact, it's one of the better ones from the front office thru scouting to personnel. The fly in the ointment remains the big mouthed head coach who reminds me of no one as much as Joel Collier, a previous "genius" who, having OJ as his top pick, proceeded to use him as decoy! That bullheadedness led to his firing and to the return of Lou Saban (still the greatest coach in Bills history). So there's hope. Come on. The 2011/12 defenses were abysmal. 2015 with mediocre. A let down from where it was, granted--and we're light years from a consensus as to why that is. But it was not abysmal. Get used to it. He has the time and patience to beat it into our heads to NOT think that Rex is a phony, self serving huckster. TBC seems to demand that we don't blame Rex. We should even be glad that we hired his loser brother. Now, Tyrod was what was wrong with the Bills, and if you don't march lockstep to this nonsense you might have a problem. I don't know why we have to make it personal/antagonistic...every time. I feel more secure in my assertions when rebuttals to them are about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 This happens with every NFL team......even the good ones. The fact is this offense was better from its previous year.....and its defense was not. I admit they need to improve on 3rd down completion (and the trick plays by Roman drive me nuts) but this team led the league in rushing. We dont know what Tyrod at his best is just yet. That is kinda the point. Exactly. Taylor is way better than Eli and Flacco were in their first seasons as starters. Let's just see what happens instead of diagnosing him as "meh" after one season. Again, very few people seem to grasp just how good the guy was for a first year starter. Far too many people are in the "well he was in the league studying behind a good QB so I'm gonna compare him to a fifth year starter rather than a first year starter" camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I don't get the crash and burn rationale. They haven't lost anyone who provided a significant contribution last year, they've added some depth and will certainly address the D in the draft. Not to mention, they had significant injury issues last year which hopefully won't be as bad this season. I can't see them being worse than last year and IMO it's likely they'll be better. That said, the comparisons between the Bills defense in 2014 and the Broncos defense in 2015 have reached absurd levels on this board. Now the Bills would have challenged for a Super Bowl last year?!? Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Come on. The 2011/12 defenses were abysmal. 2015 with mediocre. A let down from where it was, granted--and we're light years from a consensus as to why that is. But it was not abysmal. I don't know why we have to make it personal/antagonistic...every time. I feel more secure in my assertions when rebuttals to them are about me. Ehh I'm gonna say that you referring to Taylor as "meh" was the very definition of antagonistic as you knew exactly where this conversation was going to head from there. I don't get the crash and burn rationale. They haven't lost anyone who provided a significant contribution last year, they've added some depth and will certainly address the D in the draft. Not to mention, they had significant injury issues last year which hopefully won't be as bad this season. I can't see them being worse than last year and IMO it's likely they'll be better. That said, the comparisons between the Bills defense in 2014 and the Broncos defense in 2015 have reached absurd levels on this board. Now the Bills would have challenged for a Super Bowl last year?!? Good grief. Hold on a second. Nobody said the 2014 Bills defense was in the same class as this year's Broncos. This year's Broncos defense was one of the best in history; the 2014 Bills was one of the best in the league. Everyone knows that. What people, including myself, have contended is that if the 2015 Bills got the same play from their defense that they did in 2014, they absolutely could've contended for a Super Bowl. Don't forget, the Bills offense this past season was significantly better than the Broncos. Edited March 25, 2016 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Right now there's less talent on the Bills defense than there was last season. There's still the draft ahead - and maybe some cutdown pickups - but I highly doubt that there'll be as much talent on defense as last season. Any improvement over last season will have to come from the development of players, better luck with injuries, better fit of players to scheme and familiarity of players with the scheme. A net improvement is possible, but my money is on seeing everything net out to a middle of the pack defense again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 i don't think it's certain either. but i also don't think it's certain he WOULD have been with the team, so it's unfair to take it as a given. I agree. I had no idea who he was or even why anyone cared. somebody had been scouting him though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I still love BC's citation for his argument is a cherry picked post he made. Look, I said it right here! The evidence is clear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Ehh I'm gonna say that you referring to Taylor as "meh" was the very definition of antagonistic as you knew exactly where this conversation was going to head from there. Hold on a second. Nobody said the 2014 Bills defense was in the same class as this year's Broncos. This year's Broncos defense was one of the best in history; the 2014 Bills was one of the best in the league. Everyone knows that. What people, including myself, have contended is that if the 2015 Bills got the same play from their defense that they did in 2014, they absolutely could've contended for a Super Bowl. Don't forget, the Bills offense this past season was significantly better than the Broncos. Except the Bills offense WASNT significantly better. Buffalo managed 24 more points and 87 more yards. I still love BC's citation for his argument is a cherry picked post he made. Look, I said it right here! The evidence is clear! You've had six weeks to refute any of it. In fact you pledged to offset the analysis with your own. Still nothing. Just making it about me, per always. Disagree. You give the 2015 offense the 2014 defense and this team is most likely in the AFC Championship game, IMO. How do you figure a wildcard loss with a dominant defense and Tyrod? As mentioned already, the Broncos won the Super Bowl with an awful and washed up Peyton Manning. Yes, but Tyrod is not 2015 Peyton or Trent Dilfer. He is better. Conference championship? Jesus. The legend of Tyrod and the 2014 defense grows. Disagree. You give the 2015 offense the 2014 defense and this team is most likely in the AFC Championship game, IMO. How do you figure a wildcard loss with a dominant defense and Tyrod? As mentioned already, the Broncos won the Super Bowl with an awful and washed up Peyton Manning. Yes, but Tyrod is not 2015 Peyton or Trent Dilfer. He is better. Conference championship? Jesus. The legend of Tyrod and the 2014 defense grows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Except the Bills offense WASNT significantly better. Buffalo managed 24 more points and 87 more yards. You've had six weeks to refute any of it. In fact you pledged to offset the analysis with your own. Still nothing. Just making it about me, per always. Conference championship? Jesus. The legend of Tyrod and the 2014 defense grows. Conference championship? Jesus. The legend of Tyrod and the 2014 defense grows. I pledged to refute it once we picked terms. We haven't yet. I've waited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I pledged to refute it once we picked terms. We haven't yet. I've waited. Pick away. Why are you waiting for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 So this thread is about: Defense pre-Rex, Defense post-Rex, Tyrod, Roman, Rob Ryan, Marrone/Schwartz, and (evidently), who has the biggest dick on TBD. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 So this thread is about: Defense pre-Rex, Defense post-Rex, Tyrod, Roman, Rob Ryan, Marrone/Schwartz, and (evidently), who has the biggest dick on TBD. Cool. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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