March Movies: Batman V. Superman, 10 Cloverfield Lane...

[Deranged Rhino]

I'll agree to disagree. What format did you see it in? I saw it in 2D Digital Projection, and then again in IMAX 2D (Laser? I think?), both looked absolutely fantastic, imo.

 

I saw it in 2D, not IMAX.

[Azalin]

Finally saw the film... and woof, it's every bit as problematic and flawed as I've heard. From characters without motivation mindlessly flailing about the story, to surprisingly poor FX and CG that often looked like a video game more than a film, Batman vs Superman is as forgettable as it is loud.

 

You might think I was predisposed to dislike the film considering my posts in this thread, but that isn't really the case. I enjoyed Snyder's first Superman. I'm a fan of genre movies in general -- especially when done well -- and was hoping that most of the brutal reviews I read were being hyper-critical just to be hyper-critical. But man, they might have been too kind. Yes, Wonder Woman was fun, Batfleck was better than I hoped, Cavill and Adams both were one note but enjoyable in their own way, and yet even with all that it was just a mess. I had at least twelve times in the course of the film where I laughed out loud at the absurdity of either the character's decisions, or lack thereof. The movie is hollow, void of any content despite it's obvious attempt to tackle some big, important issues facing the world today. But instead of making a point about any of the many issues the film raises, it never goes beyond the surface on any of them because the characters are just paper cutouts.

 

Let's start with the plot, if you can even call it a plot. Lex Luther (terribly miscast and played with a twitch for no discernible reason) wants to make Superman bend to his will. In order to do so, he concocts not one terrorist plot, but FOUR. None of which make a lick of sense considering all he needed really was the kryptonite and the letters he sent to Bruce Wayne. That leaves us with three pointless story threads that are either played off in dream sequences, or mindless action set pieces where it's impossible to tell what the hell was happening -- and in the end none of it really mattered anyway. There were three points in the film where Lois Lane has a chance to stop the entire Lex plot in its tracks if she just told Supes what she had just learned. But, because Snyder has no idea how to tell actual character stories he turned Lane into a mindless (and stupid) side character rather than the intelligent, and vital, character she was in Man of Steel. It's never explained, nor even thought of as needing to be explained, how Lex knew Clark Kent was Superman, how he knew more about Krypton and Darkseid than even Supes knew, nor why he felt the need to try to kill Superman -- let alone Batman. There's a line about power in the film that Lex brings up twice, which I guess they hoped served to motivate him, but it was laughable at best. Lazy at worst.

 

As poorly constructed as the plot was, the characters were worse. Superman is a VERY specific character. He's idealistic in a world where idealism is dying. He's not broken, he's all heart. You just cannot do Superman without this element. But, due to the changes Snyder made in Man of Steel where Supes becomes a cold blooded killer, he painted himself -- and the DC universe by extension-- into a corner. Batman vs Superman should be about justice vs vengeance on a character level and the merits (and potential pitfalls) of both positions. But since both Batman and Superman are broken, deeply conflicted men, there's really nowhere for them to go as characters throughout the film and it shows. Instead of seeing what makes both these characters tick, and bringing them to a worthy and satisfying conflict, we learn nothing about either of them we didn't know before the movie began. Instead of revealing anything about these characters who are to be the backbone of the DC universe, we got pointless plot threads that lead nowhere but to giant set pieces for no apparent reason other than the desire to have a giant set piece. All of the action is mindless because there are no characters driving it, not even Lex's machinations are enough to motivate any of it.

 

Which of course leads to the ending. They were aiming for something heartbreaking but missed terribly. The ending is telegraphed to such an extent (even if you've never read the comics) that it becomes laughably stupid rather than meaningful by the time you get there. There's no reason for Lois to throw the spear away OTHER than to create a reason to get her trapped there later (never mind how she even knew to go get the spear again in the first place). There was also no reason for Supes to be the one to get the spear (let alone use it) other than to get the ending we got. Lois only exists in this movie to try to make us care about the ending, that's her purpose, but that's tough to pull off when you've spent 2 hours plus reducing her to a one note, meaningless character in every other respect.

 

So, yeah. It's bad. Real bad. Not because it's the worst movie ever made (or even the worst super hero movie) -- it's not by a long shot. It's real bad because it's entirely forgettable.

 

It's mindlessly entertaining but without any heart or humor. I can count on one hand the amount of times I laughed at a line intended to be funny. The visuals were lousy. The effects middling. The score -- Hans Zimmer said this will be the last super hero flick he scores because he's tired of it -- sounded like Hans was bored. The actors had fun, sometimes that showed, but not enough.

 

Ayers has to be cursing Snyder's name right now in the edit bay on Suicide Squad...

 

I was hoping that this might be a decent movie - after all, the movie itself doesn't have to be a spectacular film in order to do the characters justice (no pun intended) and respect their legacies, but from what I've seen in this extended trailer, there's more than enough to piss me off:

 

 

Luthor is a kid? And is responsible for creating Doomsday?? Out of the remains of Zod?????????

 

I've always wanted to see a movie based on The Spectre (my favorite comic hero of all time) but with the way DC heroes are treated in film, They'd screw it up for sure.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

I was hoping that this might be a decent movie - after all, the movie itself doesn't have to be a spectacular film in order to do the characters justice (no pun intended) and respect their legacies, but from what I've seen in this extended trailer, there's more than enough to piss me off:

 

 

 

Luthor is a kid? And is responsible for creating Doomsday?? Out of the remains of Zod?????????

 

I've always wanted to see a movie based on The Spectre (my favorite comic hero of all time) but with the way DC heroes are treated in film, They'd screw it up for sure.

 

The sad part is that 6 minute trailer is not only better than the movie, it highlights everything that's wrong with it too.

[Azalin]

 

The sad part is that 6 minute trailer is not only better than the movie, it highlights everything that's wrong with it too.

 

I owe you thanks - you've saved me approximately two and a half hours of my life.

[Deranged Rhino]

Update on a bit of the industry stuff going on in the wake of BvS...

 

While Disney and Jungle Book dominate the box office before Cap and Iron Man square off, the DC Expanded Universe is in chaos as expected:

 

First, The Flash lost its director:

 

Warner Bros.’ The Flash has just hit a speed bump. Pride and Prejudice and Zombies author Seth Grahame-Smith, who was to make his directorial debut on the DC superhero movie, has dropped out of the project. The film already has Ezra Miller set to star as the Scarlet Speedster, who first appeared in this spring’s Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

The Hollywood Reporter writes that Grahame-Smith dropped out due to “creative differences,” but that the project will continue working off of his script.

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-flash-loses-director/

Then, on the heels of that news, reports surfaced that James Wan is having issues with Aquaman and was rumored to be quitting, he put out a statement this morning refuting this but there are clearly cracks:

James Wan is “feeling tremendous amounts of trepidation” about directingAquaman, which he’s been attached to since last summer. Apparently Wan is in the midst of figuring out if he really wants to stay on board the comic book blockbuster featuring Jason Momoa in the lead role.

(snip)

So what’s going on over at Warner Bros. to create problems with their filmmakers? It sounds like the studio is just trying to be more hands-on with regards to the future of the DC Comics movie universe after Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice wasn’t quite the hit they’d hoped.

Even though Batman v Superman was hardly box office failure for the studio (it has $856 million worldwide right now), it didn’t bring in as much as the studio was hoping, and the reaction from critics didn’t help. Even the reaction among general audiences wasn’t as good as the studio had hoped, though the film does have its vocal fans, and director Zack Snyder and producer Geoff Johns were really shocked by their reaction.

The result has been Warner Bros. standing at odds with the vision that Snyder has for Justice League, however, there couldn’t be a huge shake-up behind the scenes without hurting Batman v Superman at the box office. Now Justice League is already in production in London, and the studio seems to be trying to keep everything from spiraling out of control.

http://www.slashfilm.com/rumor-james-wan-leaving-aquaman/

 

 

Then, to top it off, there are rumors Snyder and WB are at loggerheads over his direction of the DCEU:

 

It’s been a rough few months for Zack Snyder and Warner Bros in the lead up and the subsequent release of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. Despite making $850 million worldwide, the filmwas destroyed by critics and audiences and its looking to be a huge money loss for the studio against its giant production budget and whopping marketing spend. It was reported yesterday that Seth Grahame-Smith had left The Flash production citing creative differences, and a new rumour today suggests there’s more wars going on in the DCEU.

According to Births.Movies.Death, Synder and WB are having “lots of fights” over the direction ofJustice League (which is currently in production in London) and his vision for the rest of the DCEU.

“Sources at WB tell me that this is just one part of what’s going on behind the scenes at the DC movieverse,” the site claims. “Zack Snyder and Geoff Johns were taken aback at critical and audience reaction to Batman v Superman, I’m told, and WB execs have found themselves at odds with Snyder over his vision for Justice League and the DC movieverse going forward. Of course Justice Leaguewas scheduled to start shooting mere days after BvS was released, which meant WB couldn’t take any definitive action – like removing Snyder or delaying the movie to make changes – without poisoning the box office for BvS. The result? Lots of fights between Snyder and the WB execs, and lots of pressure from Burbank on Snyder, who is shooting in London.”

http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2016/04/rumour-zack-snyder-and-warner-bros-having-lots-of-fights-over-justice-league-and-the-dceu/

[Virgil]

To all the critics of the film and plot points, I'm a huge Superman and comic nerd. There were so many details of this movie that were straight out of the comic that it was impressive. So, what didn't make sense or seemed like filler time, was actually a lot of details from storylines that I found incredible.

 

Unfortunately, most don't read the comics like that and those are the ones seeing the movie and grading it as such. I thought it was overall fantastic and understand a lot of the decisions based upon translation to film.

 

I still didn't like Jesse as Lex, but other than that, they did a pretty amazing job

[Deranged Rhino]

To all the critics of the film and plot points, I'm a huge Superman and comic nerd. There were so many details of this movie that were straight out of the comic that it was impressive. So, what didn't make sense or seemed like filler time, was actually a lot of details from storylines that I found incredible.

 

Unfortunately, most don't read the comics like that and those are the ones seeing the movie and grading it as such. I thought it was overall fantastic and understand a lot of the decisions based upon translation to film.

 

I still didn't like Jesse as Lex, but other than that, they did a pretty amazing job

 

That's what Warner Brothers wants to hear after spending over a billion dollars on this film... "Most people never read the comics, but the 12 or so people that have will find the meandering plot, questionable character motivations, and so-so VFX incredible!"

 

[Virgil]

I completely agree

[Doc]

 

That's what Warner Brothers wants to hear after spending over a billion dollars on this film... "Most people never read the comics, but the 12 or so people that have will find the meandering plot, questionable character motivations, and so-so VFX incredible!"

 

 

They spent that much?

[Deranged Rhino]

 

They spent that much?

 

The film has made over 820 million world wide and they're still in the red over 250 million per some sources. Marketing costs are a B word.

I completely agree

 

Warners does not agree.

[shrader]

 

The film has made over 820 million world wide and they're still in the red over 250 million per some sources. Marketing costs are a B word.

 

How is it even possible to spend over a billion making and marketing a movie? The better be implanting trailers into our brains at that price tag.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

How is it even possible to spend over a billion making and marketing a movie? The better be implanting trailers into our brains at that price tag.

 

Because Hollywood's studio system is broken. They're using the "too big to fail" model with tent pole movies (put enough money behind it and it can't fail). It's ridiculous logic and it's watering down the product.

[Wayne Cubed]

 

While Disney and Jungle Book dominate the box office before Cap and Iron Man square off, the DC Expanded Universe is in chaos as expected:

 

Btw, got to see a screening of Cap vs. Iron Man... it's probably Marvels best movie yet. They do a brilliant job of adding a ton of emotion to the series.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Btw, got to see a screening of Cap vs. Iron Man... it's probably Marvels best movie yet. They do a brilliant job of adding a ton of emotion to the series.

 

I'm pumped to see it Saturday.

[shrader]

 

Because Hollywood's studio system is broken. They're using the "too big to fail" model with tent pole movies (put enough money behind it and it can't fail). It's ridiculous logic and it's watering down the product.

 

Seriously though, what are they spending on? I suppose I'm living in the wrong market where I don't see buildings and billboards plastered with the stuff, but I can't think of any other ways where they are going to run up the tab that much. What type of marketing is so costly (other than maybe a superbowl ad) where they're going to be spending that much?

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Seriously though, what are they spending on? I suppose I'm living in the wrong market where I don't see buildings and billboards plastered with the stuff, but I can't think of any other ways where they are going to run up the tab that much. What type of marketing is so costly (other than maybe a superbowl ad) where they're going to be spending that much?

 

The actual production budget (which covers actors' pay, crew pay, locations, effects etc) was at least 400 million, probably closer to 500, from what I've gleaned. The basic formula in Hollywood tentpoles is to match the production budget when it comes to marketing costs. So you figure they put in at least 400 million into marketing which would cover everything from billboards (world wide, not just domestic -- here in LA billboards are everywhere but also owned by the studios themselves so I don't know how that pricing works), TV spots (very expensive and worldwide), junkets (not as expensive but the amount of money they spend on gift bags for the press would make Louis XIV blush), plus paying for new media spots and inside-the-movie kind of mini-productions (any sort of viral marketing campaigns they may have done). They also spend a lot schmoozing certain key people within the social media sphere (paying other actors working for the studio to tweet about the movie they weren't in for example).

 

In short, who knows where that money actually goes. My only experience with marketing departments is when they butt in on creative decisions (which is now the norm when it used to be the exception). I'm guessing there is a ton of waste and overspending.

[eball]

 

Btw, got to see a screening of Cap vs. Iron Man... it's probably Marvels best movie yet. They do a brilliant job of adding a ton of emotion to the series.

 

Nice. I've been excited to see this one since I first saw the previews. Does this one follow along after Age of Ultron in the timeline?

[Wayne Cubed]

 

Nice. I've been excited to see this one since I first saw the previews. Does this one follow along after Age of Ultron in the timeline?

Yea, picks up a couple months after the whole Ultron incident. It's almost like a continuation of that movie and it doesn't feel like just a Captain America movie.

 

Lots of really good new actors as well. Tom Holland is very very good as Peter Parker/Spider-Man.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Wayne Cubed

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

And then there's this on the cover of today's Variety, a full profile on Alan Horn, now creative chief at Disney (formerly creative chief at Warners). The timing is intended to troll, not to mention the content.

 

 

"Though Horn is too circumspect to say it, the exhilaration at his achievements must be heightened because of the long and (briefly) fraught path that brought him to this place. The man now celebrated as the rare Hollywood executive who is both successful and beloved almost got run off in his first foray into the creative side of the business more than 30 years ago. Then, after a dozen years Horn spent cementing Warner Bros. as a dominant force in the ferociously competitive film business, Time Warner boss Jeff Bewkes sent him packing in 2011, for no apparent reason other than his age. Horn was 68."

 

Horn hesitates to dwell much on the loss of his job as Warner president and chief operating officer but recalls it as “painful” and “hurtful.” In a rare break from his usual reserve, he even betrays how the episode estranged him from his longtime colleague, former Warner Bros. chairman Barry Meyer. “I was in partnership with him running the place for almost 12 years, then he went on alone. So good for him,” says Horn, with a dismissive wave of his hand. “He is now retired.”

 

Believing his time atop the Hollywood ziggurat had expired, Horn was devastated, according to one close friend. But then, a year later, Iger jettisoned studio boss Rich Ross, who had alienated many of those around him, and put Horn in charge.

“I had the good fortune to convince Alan to come out of retirement by sharing my belief that we could form a partnership and a friendship that would not only result in our studio doing well, but also in the two of us having a good time along the way,” Iger says. “And that’s exactly what happened. The studio’s recent success is a result of Alan’s experience, talent and great leadership.”

 

http://variety.com/2016/film/news/alan-horn-disney-chairman-1201749971/

 

Great article, i think i need to read variety more.

[shrader]

Yea, picks up a couple months after the whole Ultron incident. It's almost like a continuation of that movie and it doesn't feel like just a Captain America movie.

 

Lots of really good new actors as well. Tom Holland is very very good as Peter Parker/Spider-Man.

 

Does that timeline fit in well for Antman? I suppose his movie could have taken place prior to all of that, but with Falcon being at a Shield facility, it at least feels like it too place after Ultron.