2016 Draft WR/TE thread

[YoloinOhio]

I think folks are way too down on Robert Woods. I think when he is healthy he can be a good starting WR. Do some teams have better #2 WRs and could the Bills benefit from having a bigger WR target? Sure, but I see DE, LB and RT as bigger needs for this team.

i think Woods is a good player. He looked a little slower last year but we need to remember he played the season with a torn groin. I like his attitude, route running and blocking and I think he has good hands. I don't think the Bills will pay him next year though. Might be wise to draft someone this year who can have the talent to step into that number 2 role.

 

As far as a size WR, we do have Dez Lewis on the PS. That's a guy who could make the 53 and get some PT if he improves this TC.

[GunnerBill]

i think Woods is a good player. He looked a little slower last year but we need to remember he played the season with a torn groin. I like his attitude, route running and blocking and I think he has good hands. I don't think the Bills will pay him next year though. Might be wise to draft someone this year who can have the talent to step into that number 2 role.

 

As far as a size WR, we do have Dez Lewis on the PS. That's a guy who could make the 53 and get some PT if he improves this TC.

 

Yep I have long been of the view that we wouldn't pay Woods and frankly the #2 receiver spot once you are paying Sammy will be a succession of 1 contract draft picks and/or lower - mid range free agents. Look at the teams who pay a top receiver and it is almost always the case that their 2s are not big contracts. Nelson and Cobb in Green Bay might be the exception.

[#34fan]

When did it become given that we need size at the second WR position, and why? It is dangerous to go into a draft targeting "tall" receivers instead of just excellent receivers of any size. It's how you end up picking James Hardy instead of DeSean Jackson.

 

The Bills' return game was atrocious last year. Finding a productive WR who can also return punts and/kickoffs should be a priority. Bralon Addison comes to mind, but I'm sure there are plenty of others.

 

Oh yah, we're GREAT at proritizing players... That's why we had smaller, productive receivers like Bob Woods rated higher than guys like Leveon Bell, and Travis Kelce in '13.... And probably why we took the ever-productive Marquise Goodwin over Markus Wheaton in that same draft... By the way how many catches has Marquise made in three years? -Oh, never mind....Because we're great at "targeting" Talent .. Yah, I remember now...

Edited February 21, 2016 by #34fan

[thebandit27]

 

Oh yah, we're GREAT at proritizing players... That's why we had smaller, productive receivers like Bob Woods rated higher than guys like Leveon Bell, and Travis Kelce in '13.... And probably why we took the ever-productive Marquise Goodwin over Markus Wheaton in that same draft... By the way how many catches has Marquise made in three years? -Oh, never mind....Because we're great at "targeting" Talent .. Yah, I remember now...

Way to use the 2013 draft--which was awful overall--to make that argument

 

Is the ability to prioritize players also the reason we "outsmarted" everyone on guys like Darby and Karlos? Or does that not count because it doesn't fit the narrative?

[mannc]

 

Oh yah, we're GREAT at proritizing players... That's why we had smaller, productive receivers like Bob Woods rated higher than guys like Leveon Bell, and Travis Kelce in '13.... And probably why we took the ever-productive Marquise Goodwin over Markus Wheaton in that same draft... By the way how many catches has Marquise made in three years? -Oh, never mind....Because we're great at "targeting" Talent .. Yah, I remember now...

i really have no idea what you're talking about or what your point is.

[#34fan]

Way to use the 2013 draft--which was awful overall--to make that argument

 

Is the ability to prioritize players also the reason we "outsmarted" everyone on guys like Darby and Karlos? Or does that not count because it doesn't fit the narrative?

 

Thanks!

 

In fairness, I could have used any number of years from 2008-present to Illustrate how BAD we've become at this process... Kinda dishonest to even call it an argument, really.

 

Anyway, seeing as how we don't typically excel at this particular aspect, what's the harm in isolating one one or more receivers 6'3" or better, and fashioning them into legit offensive weapons?..if it works out, it could positively impact our viability as playoff contenders.

Edited February 21, 2016 by #34fan

[thebandit27]

 

Thanks!

 

In fairness, I could have used any number of years from 2008-present to Illustrate how BAD we've become at this process... Kinda dishonest to even call it an argument, really.

 

Anyway, seeing as how we don't typically excel at this particular aspect, what's the harm in isolating one one or more receivers 6'3" or better, and fashioning them into legit offensive weapons?..if it works out, it could positively impact our viability as playoff contenders.

No.

 

Dishonest is presenting an argument that the years from 2008-2013 have anything to do I do with the current FO staff.

 

Which happens to be what you are doing.

 

And nobody said there's harm in targeting a big WR--a few folks asked why size was the critical factor.

[#34fan]

No.

 

Dishonest is presenting an argument that the years from 2008-2013 have anything to do I do with the current FO staff.

 

Which happens to be what you are doing.

 

 

Dishonest is presenting an argument that the years from 2008-2013 have nothing to do with the current FO staff.

 

Which happens to be what you're doing.

Edited February 21, 2016 by #34fan

[GunnerBill]

To be fair to #34 2011-13 have something to do with Whaley - he was the Assistant GM and head of player personnel.

 

There has been a big transition in the staff beneath him though and Fisher and Monos were quite obviously his guys as soon as he got the job he went and got them.

 

EDIT: Indeed I am sure Whaley would want to be associated with the 11 and 12 classes because they both produced 2 cornerstone players and one guy who became a contributor on their rookie deal before moving on (if Bradham goes that way).

 

2011 - Dareus, A.Williams, Searcy

2012 - Gilmore, Glenn, Bradham

 

That is decent drafting. That Robert Woods is the only current starter from the 2013 draft (though the team leveraged some value out of Kiko) indicated that was a less good year and will probably forever be remembered as the EJ reach.

Edited February 21, 2016 by GunnerBill

[thebandit27]

 

Dishonest is presenting an argument that the years from 2008-2013 have nothing to do with the current FO staff.

 

Which happens to be what you're doing.

This may be the all-time worst defense of a stance that I've seen on this board

 

If you think that it makes sense to connect the decisions of Modrak and Guy to Whaley, well, I'm afraid that you're too far from reality to discuss this matter

To be fair to #34 2011-13 have something to do with Whaley - he was the Assistant GM and head of player personnel.

 

There has been a big transition in the staff beneath him though and Fisher and Monos were quite obviously his guys as soon as he got the job he went and got them.

 

EDIT: Indeed I am sure Whaley would want to be associated with the 11 and 12 classes because they both produced 2 cornerstone players and one guy who became a contributor on their rookie deal before moving on (if Bradham goes that way).

 

2011 - Dareus, A.Williams, Searcy

2012 - Gilmore, Glenn, Bradham

 

That is decent drafting. That Robert Woods is the only current starter from the 2013 draft (though the team leveraged some value out of Kiko) indicated that was a less good year and will probably forever be remembered as the EJ reach.

The 2013 draft was atrocious; using it to bash any GM is silliness

[#34fan]

i really have no idea what you're talking about or what your point is.

 

 

And nobody said there's harm in targeting a big WR--a few folks asked why size was the critical factor.

 

It all comes down to RZ scoring percentages (touchdowns)

 

The Bills rank 24th out of 32 teams in this aspect of the game.

 

If you look at the top four 2015 performers for this metric, CAR, DET, NE, NYJ, respectively, you see all four teams have Primary Receiver's 6'3" or bettter, with over 70 catches, and 1100+ yards receiving.... CAR TE Greg Olsen 6'5" 77 catches, 1104 yards... DET WR Calvin Johnson 6'5" 88 catches, 1214 yards... NE TE Rob Gronkowski 6'6" 72 catches, 1176 yards.... NYJ WR Brandon Marshall 6'5" 109 catches for 1502 yards...

 

Three out of four of these teams entered week 16 as playoff contenders....

 

Should we attribute all this RZ production simply to having big receivers? -Yes, an No.

 

While they may not be responsible for scoring the RZ TD, having a 6'3" or better TE/WR on the field, creates a dimension that 5'10 corners, and 6-foot safeties struggle to deal with.. Talented Robert Woods at 6'0" (more like 5'11") and 5'9" Marquise Goodwin (when he's not hurt) simply CANNOT give you that.

 

But we've got charles Clay, right?

 

Charles Clay had just 51 catches for a pitiful 508 yards! -That from the Leagues highest paid TE? -Even when Clay was good, he wasn't all that good, posting just 605 receiving yards his best year at MIA!

 

What about primary weapon 6'2" Sammy Watkins? -formidabe? -Definitely. But with 60 grabs, and just over 1000 yards receiving (1,045 in 2015), we're still under that champioship wire for playoff contenders.

 

Buy hey, we've got Tyrod!

 

Riiiiiiiiiight....Ok... Beloved Tyrod, was top 10 in the league for fumbles! (#8) Sure, he ran a little... He ran well... But come on.. Averaging 8 yards per passing attempt? -216 yards avg passing per game? That will NOT bring the playoffs any closer to us... Neither will 242 Completions out of a paltry 380 Passing attempts (2015)... Cousins Completed 619/950.... Blake Bortles had almost as many completions (355) as Tyrod had attempts! This strategy of not throwing the football may lead to outstanding QBR's, and relatively low INT%, -But can we get to the postseason like this? -I seriously doubt it.

 

So why not get #5 some big, tall, effective, size-mismatches to aid his passing game? -Clearly, they work well if used properly. There are Several big WR specimens in this draft that also demonstrate an aptitude for route-learning/running... Let's re-draw the damn playbook, and physically get on-par with some of these playoff-contenders. -Like it or not, SIZE DOES MATTER. GO BILLS!

Edited February 21, 2016 by #34fan

[thebandit27]

 

 

 

It all comes down to RZ scoring percentages (touchdowns)

 

The Bills rank 24th out of 32 teams in this aspect of the game.

 

If you look at the top four 2015 performers for this metric, CAR, DET, NE, NYJ, respectively, you see all four teams have Primary Receiver's 6'3" or bettter, with over 70 catches, and 1100+ yards receiving.... CAR TE Greg Olsen 6'5" 77 catches, 1104 yards... DET WR Calvin Johnson 6'5" 88 catches, 1214 yards... NE TE Rob Gronkowski 6'6" 72 catches, 1176 yards.... NYJ WR Brandon Marshall 6'5" 109 catches for 1502 yards...

 

Three out of four of these teams entered week 16 as playoff contenders....

 

Should we attribute all this RZ production simply to having big receivers? -Yes, an No.

 

While they may not be responsible for scoring the RZ TD, having a 6'3" or better TE/WR on the field, creates a dimension that 5'10 corners, and 6-foot safeties struggle to deal with.. Talented Robert Woods at 6'0" (more like 5'11") and 5'9" Marquise Goodwin (when he's not hurt) simply CANNOT give you that.

 

But we've got charles Clay, right?

 

Charles Clay had just 51 catches for a pitiful 508 yards! -That from the Leagues highest paid TE? -Even when Clay was good, he wasn't all that good, posting just 605 receiving yards his best year at MIA!

 

What about primary weapon 6'2" Sammy Watkins? -formidabe? -Definitely. But with 60 grabs, and just over 1000 yards receiving (1,045 in 2015), we're still under that champioship wire for playoff contenders.

 

Buy hey, we've got Tyrod!

 

Riiiiiiiiiight....Ok... Beloved Tyrod, was top 10 in the league for fumbles! (#8) Sure, he ran a little... He ran well... But come on.. Averaging 8 yards per passing attempt? -216 yards avg passing per game? That will NOT bring the playoffs any closer to us... Neither will 242 Completions out of a paltry 380 Passing attempts (2015)... Cousins Completed 619/950.... Blake Bortles had almost as many completions (355) as Tyrod had attempts! This strategy of not throwing the football may lead to outstanding QBR's, and relatively low INT%, -But can we get to the postseason like this? -I seriously doubt it.

 

So why not get #5 some big, tall, effective, size-mismatches to aid his passing game? -Clearly, they work well if used properly. There are Several big WR specimens in this draft that also demonstrate an aptitude for route-learning/running... Let's re-draw the damn playbook, and physically get on-par with some of these playoff-contenders. -Like it or not, SIZE DOES MATTER. GO BILLS!

If you look at my responses (and my other posts throughout the offseason), you'll note that I do, in fact, want a big receiver.

 

I never disputed that.

 

I raised issue with the 2013 draft being used as a foundation for criticism of ANY GM.

 

I have a few guys earmarked as day 3 options that I like:

 

Robby Anderson of Temple

Geronimo Allison of Illinois

Keyarris Grant of Tulsa

Kenny Lawler of Cal

 

I think a red zone target will help some--the QB speeding up his diagnosis and release will help even more

[GunnerBill]

And I like Anderson and Allison too as day 3 picks too. My preference is for a big receiver but I want ability first size second. I don't want to pick a big giy just because he is big.

[OldTimer1960]

 

 

 

It all comes down to RZ scoring percentages (touchdowns)

 

The Bills rank 24th out of 32 teams in this aspect of the game.

 

If you look at the top four 2015 performers for this metric, CAR, DET, NE, NYJ, respectively, you see all four teams have Primary Receiver's 6'3" or bettter, with over 70 catches, and 1100+ yards receiving.... CAR TE Greg Olsen 6'5" 77 catches, 1104 yards... DET WR Calvin Johnson 6'5" 88 catches, 1214 yards... NE TE Rob Gronkowski 6'6" 72 catches, 1176 yards.... NYJ WR Brandon Marshall 6'5" 109 catches for 1502 yards...

 

Three out of four of these teams entered week 16 as playoff contenders....

 

Should we attribute all this RZ production simply to having big receivers? -Yes, an No.

 

While they may not be responsible for scoring the RZ TD, having a 6'3" or better TE/WR on the field, creates a dimension that 5'10 corners, and 6-foot safeties struggle to deal with.. Talented Robert Woods at 6'0" (more like 5'11") and 5'9" Marquise Goodwin (when he's not hurt) simply CANNOT give you that.

 

But we've got charles Clay, right?

 

Charles Clay had just 51 catches for a pitiful 508 yards! -That from the Leagues highest paid TE? -Even when Clay was good, he wasn't all that good, posting just 605 receiving yards his best year at MIA!

 

What about primary weapon 6'2" Sammy Watkins? -formidabe? -Definitely. But with 60 grabs, and just over 1000 yards receiving (1,045 in 2015), we're still under that champioship wire for playoff contenders.

 

Buy hey, we've got Tyrod!

 

Riiiiiiiiiight....Ok... Beloved Tyrod, was top 10 in the league for fumbles! (#8) Sure, he ran a little... He ran well... But come on.. Averaging 8 yards per passing attempt? -216 yards avg passing per game? That will NOT bring the playoffs any closer to us... Neither will 242 Completions out of a paltry 380 Passing attempts (2015)... Cousins Completed 619/950.... Blake Bortles had almost as many completions (355) as Tyrod had attempts! This strategy of not throwing the football may lead to outstanding QBR's, and relatively low INT%, -But can we get to the postseason like this? -I seriously doubt it.

 

So why not get #5 some big, tall, effective, size-mismatches to aid his passing game? -Clearly, they work well if used properly. There are Several big WR specimens in this draft that also demonstrate an aptitude for route-learning/running... Let's re-draw the damn playbook, and physically get on-par with some of these playoff-contenders. -Like it or not, SIZE DOES MATTER. GO BILLS!

 

 

My recollection (possibly faulty) is that Clay was injured/played injured for much of the year. This was compounded by having a 1st year starting QB who was #2 or #3 on the QB depth chart through training camp and pre-season. Sure, it took Tyrod Taylor some time to acclimate himself with the starting WRs and TE. Also, clearly, the Bills' offense was built based on the run game first and foremost.

 

So, to claim that Clay had a subpar year with all of these ancillary problems, is a bit questionable. That does not even consider that by the last fourth of the season that the Bills had a hobbled Watkins and a 4th string WR starting opposite him with several games where the 3rd/4th string RB were playing a big role.

 

Big picture, I was very happy with the Bills' offenses' performance this year. If the defense had lived up to their potential and the special teams had not sh*t the bed, the offense was good enough to sneak into the playoffs.

[#34fan]

Way to use the 2013 draft--which was awful overall--to make that argument

 

Is the ability to prioritize players also the reason we "outsmarted" everyone on guys like Darby and Karlos? Or does that not count because it doesn't fit the narrative?

 

 

To be fair to #34 2011-13 have something to do with Whaley - he was the Assistant GM and head of player personnel.

 

There has been a big transition in the staff beneath him though and Fisher and Monos were quite obviously his guys as soon as he got the job he went and got them.

 

EDIT: Indeed I am sure Whaley would want to be associated with the 11 and 12 classes because they both produced 2 cornerstone players and one guy who became a contributor on their rookie deal before moving on (if Bradham goes that way).

 

2011 - Dareus, A.Williams, Searcy

2012 - Gilmore, Glenn, Bradham

 

That is decent drafting. That Robert Woods is the only current starter from the 2013 draft (though the team leveraged some value out of Kiko) indicated that was a less good year and will probably forever be remembered as the EJ reach.

 

 

This may be the all-time worst defense of a stance that I've seen on this board

 

If you think that it makes sense to connect the decisions of Modrak and Guy to Whaley, well, I'm afraid that you're too far from reality to discuss this matter

 

The 2013 draft was atrocious; using it to bash any GM is silliness

 

This is an intriguing topic which merits discussion... I've got alot to say about it, but i'm not sure it belongs in this thread... Shouldn't we start a new one?

[3rdand12]

 

 

 

It all comes down to RZ scoring percentages (touchdowns)

 

The Bills rank 24th out of 32 teams in this aspect of the game.

 

If you look at the top four 2015 performers for this metric, CAR, DET, NE, NYJ, respectively, you see all four teams have Primary Receiver's 6'3" or bettter, with over 70 catches, and 1100+ yards receiving.... CAR TE Greg Olsen 6'5" 77 catches, 1104 yards... DET WR Calvin Johnson 6'5" 88 catches, 1214 yards... NE TE Rob Gronkowski 6'6" 72 catches, 1176 yards.... NYJ WR Brandon Marshall 6'5" 109 catches for 1502 yards...

 

Three out of four of these teams entered week 16 as playoff contenders....

 

Should we attribute all this RZ production simply to having big receivers? -Yes, an No.

 

While they may not be responsible for scoring the RZ TD, having a 6'3" or better TE/WR on the field, creates a dimension that 5'10 corners, and 6-foot safeties struggle to deal with.. Talented Robert Woods at 6'0" (more like 5'11") and 5'9" Marquise Goodwin (when he's not hurt) simply CANNOT give you that.

 

But we've got charles Clay, right?

 

Charles Clay had just 51 catches for a pitiful 508 yards! -That from the Leagues highest paid TE? -Even when Clay was good, he wasn't all that good, posting just 605 receiving yards his best year at MIA!

 

What about primary weapon 6'2" Sammy Watkins? -formidabe? -Definitely. But with 60 grabs, and just over 1000 yards receiving (1,045 in 2015), we're still under that champioship wire for playoff contenders.

 

Buy hey, we've got Tyrod!

 

Riiiiiiiiiight....Ok... Beloved Tyrod, was top 10 in the league for fumbles! (#8) Sure, he ran a little... He ran well... But come on.. Averaging 8 yards per passing attempt? -216 yards avg passing per game? That will NOT bring the playoffs any closer to us... Neither will 242 Completions out of a paltry 380 Passing attempts (2015)... Cousins Completed 619/950.... Blake Bortles had almost as many completions (355) as Tyrod had attempts! This strategy of not throwing the football may lead to outstanding QBR's, and relatively low INT%, -But can we get to the postseason like this? -I seriously doubt it.

 

So why not get #5 some big, tall, effective, size-mismatches to aid his passing game? -Clearly, they work well if used properly. There are Several big WR specimens in this draft that also demonstrate an aptitude for route-learning/running... Let's re-draw the damn playbook, and physically get on-par with some of these playoff-contenders. -Like it or not, SIZE DOES MATTER. GO BILLS!

You are hurt over losing Chandler to the Patriots aren't you?

: )

be nice if Dez can up his game. Gotta wonder though, Bills were decimated at WR and he did not get much attention.

Salas was the guy Tyrod was finding.

Time for a big RZ TE i think even if that is all he is good at , because the draft really has little to offer in big wide receivers who can get separation in short areas.

Is Scott Chandler available. because i have heard of him and he is tall

 

 

ps 34 your wings and blue cheese avatar still gets me droolin'. drives me nuts.

Edited February 22, 2016 by 3rdand12

[Astrobot]

i think a size WR would be great. But, hands and route running, ability to gain separation, and block (in this offense) are more important. If we find an effective returner as well that would be outstanding.

Blocking--Especially for a Greg Roman offense. I see Woods blocking very well downfield, BTW. Treadwell is the best blocking WR, Hunter Henry the best blocking TE. Later on, Nelson Spruce is a good blocker. Pharoh Cooper is a good blocker, too. Geronimo Allison has blocking ability late Day 3.

 

Separation--Sterling Shepard. Touted as one of the best at Mobile in gaining separation, and YAC receiver. Another plus: punt returner.

Also Josh Doctson. He adds the height and "my ball" highpoighting that Whaley talks about.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Astrobot

[Blokestradamus]

Treadwell not to run at the Combine - https://twitter.com/Bischoff_Scott/status/701792332337823744

 

Pretty much confirming that his time would've been on the slow side. Not that it means much.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Blokestradamus

[Astrobot]

Treadwell not to run at the Combine - https://twitter.com/Bischoff_Scott/status/701792332337823744

 

Pretty much confirming that his time would've been on the slow side. Not that it means much.

After dropping him 3 slots this week, we still have Treadwell at 8 on our Big Board. Short of showing up in a wheelchair at his Pro Day, he won't be there at RD1#19 LOL!

http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2016.asp

[YoloinOhio]

Must read on Treadwell if only for the burrito references - amazing

Laquon Treadwell and the Chipotle Paradox

http://draftbreakdown.com/laquon-treadwell-and-the-chipotle-paradox/

Edited February 22, 2016 by YoloinOhio