Georgia Bill Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 So Rex is forcing Mario to not be able to beat backup offensive linemen for sacks? Good to know. Rex ripped the heart out of the defense with his over-scheming, drop your QB pressuring monsters into coverage crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 This is true, it was considered by many to be his best coaching job. But the killer here is that he sank this season trying to jam his complicated defensive scheme on this team. That Jets team was in year 5 of his system. Things have changed since Rex first got the Jets job and players practice much less so a good coach knows he has to implement systems that can be easily assimilated. The easy part of their schedule was September and October and his schemes just put them in a deep hole which they haven't been able to dig themselves out of. His D is working better but the scheme still doesn't fit the best players the Bills have and exposes their worst. Gameday mistakes and undisciplined play have subsequently killed them in key road games at KC and Philly. We hired Rex to be Rex. Not to run someone else's defense. I am not happy either as I was hoping that Rex would be a better version of Pettine who used many of these players. Think our defense suffered from all of the above. Player decline, players leaving, players injured, poor scheme fit, change of defensive scheme, and luck. I really want to know what is going to be the plan moving forward because I am not yet sold on the defense and want some reassurance that things will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I try not to just be average joe fan. Average joe fan just looks at the last 2-3 games and what have you done for me lately. Belichick is amazing with Brady, just a coach with communication issues when he was at Cleveland. This is a QB league. Get me a very good QB and your coach will probably look very good too. I'm not looking at a 2-3 game time frame. Of course that would be unfair to judge anyone on that basis. This season is soon coming to a conclusion. The team Rex coaches is one of the most penalized teams in the league. It is also collectively one of the least intelligent teams in the league. When you add in his 6 yr record in NY it is not unfair to conclude that Rex is a very mediocre coach. Or another way of looking at it his record doesn't match his big mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I'm not looking at a 2-3 game time frame. Of course that would be unfair to judge anyone on that basis. This season is soon coming to a conclusion. The team Rex coaches is one of the most penalized teams in the league. It is also collectively one of the least intelligent teams in the league. When you add in his 6 yr record in NY it is not unfair to conclude that Rex is a very mediocre coach. Or another way of looking at it his record doesn't match his big mouth. You're welcome to that opinion. I am not going to sell you on Rex. There were plenty of offers for him last year and many NFL GM's thought he was a good coach. Today is not a good day for any Rex booster. I am taking a wait and see approach. Was told he was awful on offense but he made a good hire with Greg Roman. Was told he was a great defensive mind but was left underwhelmed in many games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 You make some excellent points. But the NFL of today is about player movement and annual roster changes. That is part and parcel of the landscape. The roster for the Bills was upgraded from the prior year, especially on offense. The team that Rex inherited on balance was better than the team that Marrone had to work with. Rex Ryan coached the Jets for six year. Their overall record was not very impressive. The longer he coached the team the more it regressed. The team he left was in shambles. You are attempting to make the point that the Jets' roster is currently upgraded compared to the prior years so it is not a fair comparison when he was the HC. That makes no sense because he not only was involved in coaching the players on the roster but he was also involved with the GM in assembling the roster. If you are trying to make the argument that he is a good coach then my question is on what are you basing it on? The record? The team's discipline? The team's collective intelligence? There was nothing in RR's resume as a HC that made him an appealing candidate for the Buffalo job. It was a peculiar hire. The season is coming to a conclusion and the disappointing performance of his team is a reflection of his history as a HC. It was a bad hire and the results shouldn't be a surprise. Apparently there was something appealing to those who mattered: the owners. Regardless of opinion, Rex Ryan took two fairly average Jets teams to the AFC title game twice with a mediocre QB. Yes the talent dropped to below average his last couple years there and the QB was a disaster. However, the Bills owners saw they had an average team with a mediocre QB. The team had gone through constant turnover of coaches and they sought an experienced HC that in their mind could stabilize the franchise. The team hadn't had a " name" HC in decades. So Rex had a resume , as opposed to the " hit coordinator" that had failed the Bills so many times previously. Regardless of ones opinion of Ryan, the hire wasn't truly a head- scratcher given what was available. The Pegulas were looking for someone they were comfortable with for the long haul. A coordinator wasn't likely to provide that. Rex will likely be given a few seasons to get his system set up. It's probably safe to say the Pegulas were not as blindly optimistic about year 1 as some fans. It was likely a guarded optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Apparently there was something appealing to those who mattered: the owners. Regardless of opinion, Rex Ryan took two fairly average Jets teams to the AFC title game twice with a mediocre QB. Yes the talent dropped to below average his last couple years there and the QB was a disaster. However, the Bills owners saw they had an average team with a mediocre QB. The team had gone through constant turnover of coaches and they sought an experienced HC that in their mind could stabilize the franchise. The team hadn't had a " name" HC in decades. So Rex had a resume , as opposed to the " hit coordinator" that had failed the Bills so many times previously. Regardless of ones opinion of Ryan, the hire wasn't truly a head- scratcher given what was available. The Pegulas were looking for someone they were comfortable with for the long haul. A coordinator wasn't likely to provide that. Rex will likely be given a few seasons to get his system set up. It's probably safe to say the Pegulas were not as blindly optimistic about year 1 as some fans. It was likely a guarded optimism. Those Jets teams he took were star studded. And they had historic rushing attacks. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 1) Well it's official. Rex Ryan has destroyed this talented football team. 2) I know he gave up a long TD pass, but Corey Graham is a very good player, who makes plays all over the field. And btw, on the TD he did give up Bradford had all month to throw. 15) I really, really hope that Rex will accept a buyout and just get out of here. 16) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For some unknown reason there are quite a few Bills fans that just don't get the disparity between going from #1 in the NFL in QB sacks, hits, hurries to 30th, and almost last in QB sacks, hits, hurries. Those sacks are so very important because they take a toll on the QB by giving him nervous feet, and then he will hurry his throws. The opposing offensive lines will draw constant penalties while attempting to stop the pass rushers, sound familiar? Fans want to blame the players but three all pro's on that D line didn't just suddenly fall off the earth. They are playing in a defensive scheme that simply doesn't fit their respective talents. Might as well be asking LeSean McCoy to play TE, and he could probably do it too. The difference is he just isn't suited to play that position, and the Bills quicker, penetrating DT's aren't space eating, gap control 340 pounders either. Schwartz proved that lining up Mario, and Hughes on the outside of the OT is a far more effective way to enable those DE's to get to the passer quicker. Then the defense still needs to blitz by sending more defensive players after the QB then they have blocking. Rex Ryan simply isn't blitzing this year like he has in past years. You give any bum of a QB all day to throw, and he will burn you. Remember back in 2010 when Buddy Nix was crying that the Bills didn't have any pass rush at all, and that opposing rookie QB's had all day to throw. Then pencil in a 100 million dollar DE onto the team who had 14.5 sacks last year now only has 4.0 after 13 games. Pencil in DT Marcell Dareus in at #3 overall in the 2011 NFL draft who had 10 sacks last year, and now only has 2 sacks Well, this team has put 1/4 billion dollars into their front four to rush the passer, and now this new HC would rather see them drop into pass coverage or sit in gap control. Wanna know what really gets me? Even as bad as Dave Wannstedt was running the Bills defense in 2012, and he finished 22nd overall in total defense. His defense was still #18 in sacks with 36. Hell, even flip flopping 3-4 / 4-3 Bills DC George Edwards finished the 2011 season 27th with 29 sacks. The 2015 Buffalo Bills are currently 30th in the NFL with a measly 19 sacks after 13 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 On the long TD pass to Agholar - Dareus did a ballet move - I swear to God it was a pirouette of some kind - he pranced right by Bradford and may even have kicked his heels together in the air before landing. I looked up and found this play on NFL.com and saw what you were talking about. It was just as disgusting as you described. Dareus actually left his feet, spun his body, and landed NOT facing the quarterback instead of driving towards him. Thanks. Now I am even more sickened by this game. Ryan has made this defense a sad, sick joke. I would like to see them bring back Pettine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Interesting stat: we had the benefit of playing the worst division in each conference. Thus far we have a combined .500 record against: AFC South - 3 & 1 NFC East - 0 & 2 Combined - 3 & 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 " Many of the players on this roster were already undisciplined knuckleheads before Rex showed up - but this team has fully adopted the scatterbrained, undisciplined, ADHD personality of its head coach and offensive coordinator." Could not have said it better. I have been saying it since the first few games. This team HAS the talent, just not the coaching needed to get the best out of the talent they already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Child Abuse. I've gone out of my way to tell my kid not to root for the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I was at the game too. Coaching didn't lose this 3 point contest. You will not convince me otherwise. I just let them talk. 205 mil invested in 2 dl should be able to play in ANY SCHEME. Also, penalties. If you want to pin them on the coaching for the most part, blame Kromer. The o line got killed. For those who want a disciplinarian, check out Coughlin minus a mainstay QB. What happened with Harbaugh, Singletary. It doesnt win necessarily. Our players coach needs to go to his players and see what type of scheme they want to run. It sounds silly. But he obviously isnt listening to the masses. People forget. This is football at the highest level. These guys are multi millionaires. You upset them, they leave, and gues what-- no one worth salt will want to come to a team with that reputation. You cant just be coach billy bad ass and expect to have a job. Last year hughes was so probe to PF calls he got one for smacking his own player on the helmet. BENCH HIM. Even though he is the most disruptive DE on the team. In all schemes. I say all this to say that the players are not making plays. The scheme is not exciting.... at all. But the first half of yesterday. It worked. Fletcher Cox is what many thought Dareus was. And they were flying all around. The biggest hope for me is to see Pettine get fired and somwhow have him come back. THE PLAYERS Jesus Christ does nobody on this board have a !@#$ing clue about accountability? Cat!!!! How dare you insult me. We ALL know Roman is number 76 rex 94 kromer 36/26 thurman 42 and so on. And here i thought you knew who the bills were... psshaw sad face sad face Sorry, that's crap to me. When the team commits 15 penalties and is top 3 in the league for them, who do you blame? By comparison, who are the least penalized teams and why. There's a reason it's happening and it's happening consistently. Well... i know that last year the number 1 penalized team was a marshawn lynch away from holding the Lombardi. And who did they play.... you guessed it. The number 2 most penalized. At the very least there is ZERO correlation between winning and penalties. Now if you produced a stat that had a direct correlation of penalties to points. Even a stat for drive killin penalties on offense and drive extending penalties on defense. Woods had a really good game today and I think he stepped up with Clay injured. Definitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 15 penalties & 2 turnovers. ya first have to learn to not beat yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Players He might want to rephrase that question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 The scheme is not exciting.... at all. But the first half of yesterday. It worked. Ya think? The Bills handed the Eagles points just before the half by NOT pressuring Bradford at all. The biggest hope for me is to see Pettine get fired and somwhow have him come back.My friend, first you say it's all about the players. Now you want Pettine back. Which one is it? Btw, I agree with you in part. I am not seeing great effort from Mario and Marcel. BUT, they would have better numbers if they played in a defense that let them attack. This much seems to be beyond dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Been discussed, but the low percentage plays on 3rd and short just drive me insane. When you are down and need some momentum the most important thing is to win some battles and keep the chains moving. Even crazier is when you are in that situation and it is 2nd and 2, and you run TWO low percentage plays and punt instead of just getting the friggin 2 yds in two plays. I was not as confident as many going into this game, but I thought for sure the defense was what was going to cost us the game. In the end the defense did enough and we just couldn't overcome penalties and the offense not converting and keeping drives alive. At least we are spared the scenario of going into the last game as a must win with all the Rex/Jets hoopla and no doubt would have crapped the bed then with another classic collapse. Although maybe we can ruin the Jets season which is something to root for. This whole season has been as frustrating as I can remember - usually there isn't as much hope/optimism to eventually get crushed. The sad part is seeing guys like Watkins and you can almost read his mind saying I can't wait to get out of this place as soon as I get my chance - similar to what you saw on those teams from the 70's and 80's. All that is left to do for me is pray for NE** not to make the SB - each week I will just be rooting for Brady to get crap beat of of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) You're welcome to that opinion. I am not going to sell you on Rex. There were plenty of offers for him last year and many NFL GM's thought he was a good coach. Today is not a good day for any Rex booster. I am taking a wait and see approach. Was told he was awful on offense but he made a good hire with Greg Roman. Was told he was a great defensive mind but was left underwhelmed in many games. The Bills were penalized 15 times in this game. Do you know how many penalties the Jets (the team the rambunctious coach was fired from) were assessed in their game against the Titans? Three times. Which team do you think has more discipline? Which team plays with more team intelligence? Coaching isn't a factor? Where I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you is your static approach toward coaching and systems (schemes). The NFL of today is about constant changes being made to the game and the necessity of adapting. Rules change, interpretation (emphasis) of rules change, personnel constantly changing, injuries, cap departures and additions. There is nothing static about a roster and the game. There can be dramatic changes in personnel due to injuries from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. What a coach wants to do and what a player is capable of doing has to be factored in. When your coach is locked into a scheme and the personnel changes result in an inability to run the scheme the HC has to be able to adjust. You hold to the view that Rex needs to be given time to get his own players to run his stuff. What happens when teams with smarter coaches adjust their schemes to render your installed scheme less effective? What happens when rule changes and interpretations make the system you are so invested in less effective? You have to be adaptable and you have to be flexible. Being married to a system is not a smart approach to take in an environment of constant change. The team that Rex took over was a playoff caliber team. The games against the Chiefs, Giants, Jaguars and this Eagles games were winnable. The margin between winning and losing is very small. I submit that the difference between being a playoff team and not was directly due to the caliber of coaching. Rex is simply being Rex. The organization got exactly what they hired. That is why he is not only a bad hire but a dumb hire. Talking big is not coaching big. Coaching matters! Edited December 14, 2015 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 On the long TD pass to Agholar - Dareus did a ballet move - I swear to God it was a pirouette of some kind - he pranced right by Bradford and may even have kicked his heels together in the air before landing. ... This coaching staff is not able to concentrate fully for 17 full weeks, or for 60 full minutes on game day. Many of the players on this roster were already undisciplined knuckleheads before Rex showed up - but this team has fully adopted the scatterbrained, undisciplined, ADHD personality of its head coach and offensive coordinator. ... Tyrod lacks situational awareness. Throwing a fade on critical third and short situations is straight out of Va Tech. We're in the big leagues now. Get your mind in the game or we'll find someone else to play under center. ... Watkins had his worst game as a Bill. He failed to separate, failed to extend himself, and dropped two passes. ... Richie also had his worst game as a Bill. Maybe all of the talk this week about him being the best guard in the league got to his head. Which would also fit the personality of a Rex team - these guys think, just like their coach does, that they can just show up and win because they're so great and talented. Richie was ABYSMAL today. ... As for all of the unforced errors and pre-snap penalties, I'll say this: fans have a say now. It's not like when Ralph was in charge and we were worried that if we voted with our dollars he'd just move the team away. Terry isn't going to do that. If you don't like what you see out there - complain to OBD. And consider not buying season tickets next season. Make this COMPANY earn our hard-earned dollars for a change. The product this season has been unacceptable. And if they do what I think they're going to do and make Whaley the fall guy when we miss the playoffs again, Rex will be exposed next season for the total boob that he is. I may not pay to watch it again, I've effing had it. Excellent post. I am not going to lie & say I was totally against the Ryan hire. But what kept bringing causing some concern was the fact that Marrone took this guy to the wood shed twice last year. What he has done to this defense is indefensible. I know it is a lot of money but hopefully Pegs realizes his mistakes and get this jackass out of here. It is not going to get better until Rex gets canned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 The Bills were penalized 15 times in this game. Do you know how many penalties the Jets (the team the rambunctious coach was fired from) were assessed in their game against the Titans? Three times. Which team do you think has more discipline? Which team plays with more team intelligence? Coaching isn't a factor? Where I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you is your static approach toward coaching and systems (schemes). The NFL of today is about constant changes being made to the game and the necessity of adapting. Rules change, interpretation (emphasis) of rules change, personnel constantly changing, injuries, cap departures and additions. There is nothing static about a roster and the game. There can be dramatic changes in personnel due to injuries from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. What a coach wants to do and what a player is capable of doing has to be factored in. When your coach is locked into a scheme and the personnel changes result in an inability to run the scheme the HC has to be able to adjust. You hold to the view that Rex needs to be given time to get his own players to run his stuff. What happens when teams with smarter coaches adjust their schemes to render your installed scheme less effective? What happens when rule changes and interpretations make the system you are so invested in less effective? You have to be adaptable and you have to be flexible. Being married to a system is not a smart approach to take in an environment of constant change. The team that Rex took over was a playoff caliber team. The games against the Chiefs, Giants, Jaguars and this Eagles games were winnable. The margin between winning and losing is very small. I submit that the difference between being a playoff team and not was directly due to the caliber of coaching. Rex is simply being Rex. The organization got exactly what they hired. That is why he is not only a bad hire but a dumb hire. Talking big is not coaching big. Coaching matters! What head coach was available that matched your requirements? Most NFL coaches have a system they run. The Jets coach hasn't adapted sh&^! He is coaching the same way he did in Arizona. Watch more Jets games. I am not that impressed. And no, Bowles is no better than Ryan. You are overreacting to the last few games. That's ok, that's what most fans do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badasss Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 1) Well it's official. Rex Ryan has destroyed this talented football team. 2) I know he gave up a long TD pass, but Corey Graham is a very good player, who makes plays all over the field. And btw, on the TD he did give up Bradford had all month to throw. 3) After the 47 yard TD pass to Watkins, EJ was sitting right next to Tyrod on the bench. He was smiling and encouraging. I have been critical of EJ as a quarterback but he sure seems like a good kid. 4) I'm not sure why Miller was on the field today. Do they really think he is better than Urbik? I for one do not. 5) Since the day he was signed, Mario Williams has been my favorite player on the Bills. And his sack today was great. The problem is that before the sack, he was a complete non factor. I don't know if it's because of the idiotic scheme, injuries, lack of effort, or whatever. I can't tell you but it is painful to watch. An btw Dareus was no prize either. 6) Last week, a very observant poster noted that Woods seems to be constantly falling down, at times for no reason. Well on his first catch in the 1st quarter, it looked as if he had room to run, and down he went. 7) Going where the wind don't blow so strange, Maybe on some high cold mountain range. Lost one round but the price wasn't anything, Knife in a back, and more of the same. Same old rat in a drain ditch, Out on a limb, You know better but I know him. 8) You know, Rambo is starting to grow on me in a good way. 9) There is no accountability on this team. 15 penalties? Seriously? Rex has taken this very talented team and made them into a rebuilding project, one that will have cap issues to boot. 10) On the last drive before half time the Bills were rushing 3 men on almost every play. Once, Mario was one of the three and HE TOO dropped into coverage. This team was tops in sacks for the last 2 years. Now Rex has them playing like a bunch of pansy ass losers. I am a Bills Fan. I can handle losing but this is just plain ugly. 11) Cordy Glenn probably played his best game of the season. 12) A taunting penalty by a marginal player such as Meeks? I suppose if your coach doesn't care, go for it. 13) The man just isn't very good, but Manny Lawson did play well in the first half. 14) Tyrod was the most effective runner on the field. A few more carries by him and we would have won this game imo. Considering the protection and all of those penalties, I was satisfied with his performance today. Not thrilled mind you. 15) I really, really hope that Rex will accept a buyout and just get out of here. 16) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing left to do, but smile, smile, smile !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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