YoloinOhio Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Anything sound familiar? Outside of the huge problems with stopping the run... Interestingly we hear some of the same things here now (too complex) with the scheme similarities with Rex but we did not hear it when Pettine was here. That I recall, anyway. http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/21/mike-pettine-cleveland-browns-defense-problems-afc-north Simply put, the Browns are spending so much time figuring out ways to trick the offense, they're leaving themselves little to no margin for error. If it means dropping linebacker Paul Kruger in coverage to fool Peyton Manning, despite the latter being a scheme-identifying genius, Cleveland will do it. In other words, the Browns are so worried about you figuring out their cards, they wind up putting certain players in the wrong position. Edited October 23, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Yep. I'd like to see the Bills use their players to do what they are good at. Not try to trick the other team by putting players in positions that aren't good at. I like Marv's old theory of doing what you are good at executing it well. That puts pressure on your opponent to stop you at your best. The old "I'll give you my playbook and still out execute you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Pettine insists that it ls not complicated and if they think it is, they should spend more time learning it because it is their job. Edited October 23, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Yep. I'd like to see the Bills use their players to do what they are good at. Not try to trick the other team by putting players in positions that aren't good at. I like Marv's old theory of doing what you are good at executing it well. That puts pressure on your opponent to stop you at your best. The old "I'll give you my playbook and still out execute you" I dont think the two things are mutually exclusive. You can confuse the offense with pressure from a variety of angles and mixing coverages while at the same time letting your best pass rushers go after the QB on the vast majority of plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I dont think the two things are mutually exclusive. You can confuse the offense with pressure from a variety of angles and mixing coverages while at the same time letting your best pass rushers go after the QB on the vast majority of plays.that sounds like what Pettine did in buffalo. I don't remember any player complaints, anyway. Edited October 23, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Anything sound familiar? Outside of the huge problems with stopping the run... Interestingly we hear some of the same things here now (too complex) with the scheme similarities with Rex but we did not hear it when Pettine was here. That I recall, anyway. http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/21/mike-pettine-cleveland-browns-defense-problems-afc-north It is interesting to me how Schwartz was able to take Pettine's guys and improve the D...especially the run D...Then Rex takes the same guys (basically), installs a similar system to Pettine's, and once again is getting mixed results...Maybe the schemes are too confusing for the players...Maybe they do leave no margin for error...But I certainly think there is a chance that complex or not, after all these years of seeing it, teams know how to attack Rex/Pettine's Defenses with more precision...Especially teams with good QB's...So I think it's a combination of things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patten is Unconscious Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 People are loathe to see the truth in front of them when reality is contrary to their world view. Even Mr.Swizel Stick had the wisdom to discard faulty packages and go big when the the run and shoot was shatting over his d. Rex and his admin need to go Moses and let their people go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 People are loathe to see the truth in front of them when reality is contrary to their world view. Even Mr.Swizel Stick had the wisdom to discard faulty packages and go big when the the run and shoot was shatting over his d. Rex and his admin need to go Moses and let their people go. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 People are loathe to see the truth in front of them when reality is contrary to their world view. Even Mr.Swizel Stick had the wisdom to discard faulty packages and go big when the the run and shoot was shatting over his d. Rex and his admin need to go Moses and let their people go. What? Early start on the weekend perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 According to Rex's most recent presser, the Bills will be playing the same D. He more or less laughed off the suggestions that he needs to change it. Thurman, in his presser, basically blamed the players. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 It is interesting to me how Schwartz was able to take Pettine's guys and improve the D...especially the run D...Then Rex takes the same guys (basically), installs a similar system to Pettine's, and once again is getting mixed results...Maybe the schemes are too confusing for the players...Maybe they do leave no margin for error...But I certainly think there is a chance that complex or not, after all these years of seeing it, teams know how to attack Rex/Pettine's Defenses with more precision...Especially teams with good QB's...So I think it's a combination of things... Buffalo seems to have the recent legacy of having one scheme or the other wrong. Greg Roman's offense with Jim Schwartz's defense would look pretty good right now. Under Scwartz this year I think the Bills only lose the Cheats* game. Hard to say because they may not have picked up Tyrod without Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patten is Unconscious Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) What? When complicated stuff ain't working - ditch the scheme and go to your players strengths Walt Corey = Mr. Swizel Stick Edited October 23, 2015 by Patten is Unconscious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 It is interesting to me how Schwartz was able to take Pettine's guys and improve the D...especially the run D...Then Rex takes the same guys (basically), installs a similar system to Pettine's, and once again is getting mixed results...Maybe the schemes are too confusing for the players...Maybe they do leave no margin for error...But I certainly think there is a chance that complex or not, after all these years of seeing it, teams know how to attack Rex/Pettine's Defenses with more precision...Especially teams with good QB's...So I think it's a combination of things... Football Outsiders actually ranks Pettine's Bills D slightly ahead of our D last year even though we weren't as good against the run under Petting as we were under Schwartz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 When complicated stuff ain't working - ditch the scheme and go to your players strengths Walt Corey = Mr. Swizel Stick fit em up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Disguise needs to be part of a defense, otherwise you end up with Dave Wannstedt's D. Offenses are too good to play against if they can qickly and easily recognize your configurations. The Bills (and apparently the Browns) just aren't doing it well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Disguise needs to be part of a defense, otherwise you end up with Dave Wannstedt's D. Offenses are too good to play against if they can qickly and easily recognize your configurations. The Bills (and apparently the Browns) just aren't doing it well enough.i agree with this. I personally think the players need to execute better. Rex needs to make changes too to maximize their strengths - as he has fully admitted - but I want to hear the players take some accountability too. Mario - talking to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 According to Rex's most recent presser, the Bills will be playing the same D. He more or less laughed off the suggestions that he needs to change it. Thurman, in his presser, basically blamed the players. Sheesh. No surprise I guess... It will be interesting to see, assuming they stay healthy enough, if this Defense starts clicking as the year goes on...I think it is understandable to have some scheme-related growing pains...But it can't last too much longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 With Rex it is all about Rex and how he is the reason for defensive success so he will always use his schemes come hell or high water. Square peg in round hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Pettine insists that it ls not complicated and if they think it is, they should spend more time learning it because it is their job. boom. always liked Mike's directness. People are loathe to see the truth in front of them when reality is contrary to their world view. Even Mr.Swizel Stick had the wisdom to discard faulty packages and go big when the the run and shoot was shatting over his d. Rex and his admin need to go Moses and let their people go. Yep. let it rip. helmet on helmet football. According to Rex's most recent presser, the Bills will be playing the same D. He more or less laughed off the suggestions that he needs to change it. Thurman, in his presser, basically blamed the players. Sheesh. Thurman did do that didn't he? Watkins and Williams spoke up too. I have no problem any of them calling each other out, when its true. fit em up LOL. love it ! I sure chuckled Disguise needs to be part of a defense, otherwise you end up with Dave Wannstedt's D. Offenses are too good to play against if they can qickly and easily recognize your configurations. The Bills (and apparently the Browns) just aren't doing it well enough. ideally it should be perfect blend.. But is the best play being called against what they are predicting and are the players executing said play? bit of both i might imagine No surprise I guess... It will be interesting to see, assuming they stay healthy enough, if this Defense starts clicking as the year goes on...I think it is understandable to have some scheme-related growing pains...But it can't last too much longer... my thoughts also. to a letter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Anything sound familiar? Outside of the huge problems with stopping the run... Interestingly we hear some of the same things here now (too complex) with the scheme similarities with Rex but we did not hear it when Pettine was here. That I recall, anyway. http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/21/mike-pettine-cleveland-browns-defense-problems-afc-north Too complicated and overthinking, just let em play Rex According to Rex's most recent presser, the Bills will be playing the same D. He more or less laughed off the suggestions that he needs to change it. Thurman, in his presser, basically blamed the players. Sheesh. DOOMED !!! fit em up Wandstache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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