YoloinOhio Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 I think one of the valid points is that the Pats typically had a guy hanging back waiting for Taylor to try to extend a play by scrambling out of the pocket, so that resulted in a sack where if he'd stepped up and made small evasive movements a la Rodgers, he could sometimes have found a guy or at least thrown it away. He has the arm strength to throw the ball away from almost anywhere, it's not like he needs to get near the sideline a la Fitz. Yes, this Err, because we lost? Losing is not success? It wasn't "all the Olines fault" but where did you find these "charges"? There are plays where it was the Oline's fault. There are plays where protection and coverage were both good, and Taylor should have thrown it away before taking a coverage sack. And there were plays where Taylor left something out there. It's also IMO not the O-lines fault if the Pats stack the box and Roman dials up a run play regardless. Of course not, but if we are going to expect this particular QB to win a shootout with Brady we already lost. He should not have had to throw as much as he did, 32 points should be enough to win any game with this defense. The defense couldn't stop Brady, rinse and repeat every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Err, because we lost? Losing is not success? Err, you have to know why you lost. When you score 5 touchdowns and lose the problem might be something other than your QB getting sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 *warning* Rodak article http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/21072/sammy-watkins-tyrod-taylor-must-gain-trust-in-bills-o-line Thanks for the warning, LOL! The thing that bothers me about this coverage is the cherry-picking. When I read the headline I was thinking "Watkins should STFU on the finger pointing". Then I read what Watkins was actually quoted saying in the article, and it's extremely measured and reasonable: "We're new guys," he said. "We haven't made plays with him. The more we make plays, the more he'll get comfortable with us. The more the line blocks, he'll get more comfortable with staying in the pocket. That's the thing -- with playing these games, you get to realize how much it's a big difference when you haven't played with a guy for so long. So you can't point fingers at him and saying, 'Oh, he missed these throws.' Well, some guys mess up on routes or depth." Watkins seems to be making the point that the Bills QB and WR are a developing team, that they need to continue to work to be on the same page with routes and timing, and be patient with each other, NOT point fingers. Then Rodak distills what Watkins actually said into this: "Rex Ryan echoed the same theme as Watkins -- that Taylor needs to stay in the pocket -- in his Monday news conference." But that's really not a very accurate capture of what Watkins said, based on what Rodak himself quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Thanks for the warning, LOL! The thing that bothers me about this coverage is the cherry-picking. When I read the headline I was thinking "Watkins should STFU on the finger pointing". Then I read what Watkins was actually quoted saying in the article, and it's extremely measured and reasonable: "We're new guys," he said. "We haven't made plays with him. The more we make plays, the more he'll get comfortable with us. The more the line blocks, he'll get more comfortable with staying in the pocket. That's the thing -- with playing these games, you get to realize how much it's a big difference when you haven't played with a guy for so long. So you can't point fingers at him and saying, 'Oh, he missed these throws.' Well, some guys mess up on routes or depth." Watkins seems to be making the point that the Bills QB and WR are a developing team, that they need to continue to work to be on the same page with routes and timing, and be patient with each other, NOT point fingers. Then Rodak distills what Watkins actually said into this: "Rex Ryan echoed the same theme as Watkins -- that Taylor needs to stay in the pocket -- in his Monday news conference." But that's really not a very accurate capture of what Watkins said, based on what Rodak himself quoted. I agree, misleading headline. What else is new?! Click bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Err, you have to know why you lost. When you score 5 touchdowns and lose the problem might be something other than your QB getting sacked. I agree. The QB throwing 3 INTs, one of which resulted in a TD, would be one reason. But neither of us were contending that "the problem is the QB getting sacked". You were asking "why not settle for success?" We didn't succeed, we lost. You change the topic of the question and then insert positions no one is arguing, Promo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCJanko Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 *warning* Rodak article http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/21072/sammy-watkins-tyrod-taylor-must-gain-trust-in-bills-o-line Sammy's quote is pretty damning. It wasn't insulting, but saying your QB isn't trusting his line is very strong (and I 100% thought the same thing while watching the game). But stats can be used in any way. The line was not good, and neither was the playcalling. Just thinking about the game, I bet the reason he had so much time was that he extended many plays. The problem, however, is that when he extended the plays, he rarely turned it into a positive. In fact, I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that all of his interceptions were after quite a bit of time waiting and/or extending the play. He hasn't yet shown he can throw under immense pressure. He has shown he can throw quite well when not pressured. Taylor made rookie mistakes. I was under the impression that his experience under Flacco made him somewhere in between a rookie and veteran. That was not the case Sunday. We will know much more this week. If he continues rookie errors, it will be a long season for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Yeah, multiple times he stepped to the side, or back, into a sack, when he had a pocket to step into. I imagine that will have to come with experience. As far as extending plays, there is a time limit... its good to move around, but at a certain point you need to either get rid of the ball, or get back to the LoS. I hate to fault a guy who lead an offense to 32 points but this is very true. And, then again, this was only TT's second start. I'm expecting him to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I agree. The QB throwing 3 INTs, one of which resulted in a TD, would be one reason. But neither of us were contending that "the problem is the QB getting sacked". You were asking "why not settle for success?" We didn't succeed, we lost. You change the topic of the question and then insert positions no one is arguing, Promo. Generally I would agree that scoring 32 points should win you any game, and the D has to do their job. BUT when you go 3 and out 5 times in a row, and give the ball back to Brady 3 times, be prepared to lose. You give Brady that many extra possessions you've put yourself in a position to get into a shoot out. I think we gave away 10 points off turnovers (could be wrong), but that makes it 30-32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCJanko Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I agree, misleading headline. What else is new?! Click bait. True, because it was part of a bigger picture, but it is still something you never want to hear, even if Sammy is spreading the "mistrust" as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Sammy's quote is pretty damning. It wasn't insulting, but saying your QB isn't trusting his line is very strong (and I 100% thought the same thing while watching the game). But stats can be used in any way. The line was not good, and neither was the playcalling. Just thinking about the game, I bet the reason he had so much time was that he extended many plays. The problem, however, is that when he extended the plays, he rarely turned it into a positive. In fact, I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that all of his interceptions were after quite a bit of time waiting and/or extending the play. He hasn't yet shown he can throw under immense pressure. He has shown he can throw quite well when not pressured. Taylor made rookie mistakes. I was under the impression that his experience under Flacco made him somewhere in between a rookie and veteran. That was not the case Sunday. We will know much more this week. If he continues rookie errors, it will be a long season for us. Really? It sounded more to me like a guy saying that the entire offense needs to get accustomed to playing with each other. Tyrod needs to trust the OL, the WRs need to trust Tyrod, etc. He even went on to say that they hadn't played together the entire preseason. It really doesn't read like he's criticizing his QB; it reads like he's saying that once the team gets on the same page, they'll have more trust that things will come together as the game plan intends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Sammy's quote is pretty damning. It wasn't insulting, but saying your QB isn't trusting his line is very strong (and I 100% thought the same thing while watching the game). But stats can be used in any way. The line was not good, and neither was the playcalling. Just thinking about the game, I bet the reason he had so much time was that he extended many plays. The problem, however, is that when he extended the plays, he rarely turned it into a positive. In fact, I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that all of his interceptions were after quite a bit of time waiting and/or extending the play. He hasn't yet shown he can throw under immense pressure. He has shown he can throw quite well when not pressured. Taylor made rookie mistakes. I was under the impression that his experience under Flacco made him somewhere in between a rookie and veteran. That was not the case Sunday. We will know much more this week. If he continues rookie errors, it will be a long season for us. Watching the All-22 TT gets happy feet, takes off laterally, hanging his tackle out to dry, also means he can't look down field, or at least halves it. He needs to do a better job of climbing the pocket vertically, which many times he could have done, but chose not to too quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCJanko Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Scoring 32 points means almost nothing. Miami scored 34 points on us in a playoff game in 1991 (44-34, 1990 season), and it wasn't a game. We handled them from start to finish. When your offense is playing well, you can take chances on defense or let up in other areas to extend time. If New England struggled on offense, I can guarantee we do not score 32. They find ways to win, period. If they score only 30, they keep us to 29. They were clearly the better team, and never let us threaten the lead when it came down to it. Any time we came close to taking the lead, they crushed us. Really? It sounded more to me like a guy saying that the entire offense needs to get accustomed to playing with each other. Tyrod needs to trust the OL, the WRs need to trust Tyrod, etc. He even went on to say that they hadn't played together the entire preseason. It really doesn't read like he's criticizing his QB; it reads like he's saying that once the team gets on the same page, they'll have more trust that things will come together as the game plan intends. It was. I clarified in another post. For me, I can take hearing that my WR's and QB aren't on the same page, and maybe don't "trust" each other yet, but the QB and o-line are special. These are the warriors, and QB is the general. The first thing that should happen before taking the field is to have trust in your line. That's all I meant. I don't disagree with you at all. Watching the All-22 TT gets happy feet, takes off laterally, hanging his tackle out to dry, also means he can't look down field, or at least halves it. He needs to do a better job of climbing the pocket vertically, which many times he could have done, but chose not to too quickly. If you don't mind me asking, what does "All-22 TT" mean? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) Scoring 32 points means almost nothing. Miami scored 34 points on us in a playoff game in 1991 (44-34, 1990 season), and it wasn't a game. We handled them from start to finish. When your offense is playing well, you can take chances on defense or let up in other areas to extend time. If New England struggled on offense, I can guarantee we do not score 32. They find ways to win, period. If they score only 30, they keep us to 29. They were clearly the better team, and never let us threaten the lead when it came down to it. Any time we came close to taking the lead, they crushed us. It was. I clarified in another post. For me, I can take hearing that my WR's and QB aren't on the same page, and maybe don't "trust" each other yet, but the QB and o-line are special. These are the warriors, and QB is the general. The first thing that should happen before taking the field is to have trust in your line. That's all I meant. I don't disagree with you at all. If you don't mind me asking, what does "All-22 TT" mean? Thanks! No need to apologize for questioning the usage of the word "trust". As to "All-22", this is the coach's tape that comes out on Tuesdays (commonly referred to as "coach's film" or "game film"). It uses the high cameras that show the entire boundary of the field of play, as opposed to the video broadcast on which we watch the game. Edited September 23, 2015 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Watching the All-22 TT gets happy feet, takes off laterally, hanging his tackle out to dry, also means he can't look down field, or at least halves it. He needs to do a better job of climbing the pocket vertically, which many times he could have done, but chose not to too quickly. yeah I think it's the biggest thing for him. The 1st half would've gone a lot more smoothly if he'd have done a better job of that alone. He's so close to being really freakin good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Taylor needs to get comfortable working in the pocket. Much like Russell Wilson, Taylor looks to get out of the pocket often even when the pressure might not be there. Taylor is very good when working outside the pocket and I do think Roman should work some waggle plays in like Seattle runs. However if a QB only works out of the pocket then that QB is very limited and limits the offense. The O-Line needs to protect better but Taylor also needs to avoid scrambling into pressure and get more comfortable working in the pocket. Taylor is still developing obviously, so I think he can improve but there needs to be a significant amount of improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 One of the things that is really refreshing is it appears that he is waiting for things to develop downfield.......which causes him to hold the ball a bit. It will come along.......I got no problems with where the offense is at right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCJanko Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 No need to apologize for questioning the usage of the word "trust". As to "All-22", this is the coach's tape that comes out on Tuesdays (commonly referred to as "coach's film" or "game film"). It uses the high cameras that show the entire boundary of the field of play, as opposed to the video broadcast on which we watch the game. Wow. I never claim to know everything, but I can't believe I never heard that phrase. Of course, my career ended in high school in the 90's, and we didn't have many angles. This is truly a quality forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Wow. I never claim to know everything, but I can't believe I never heard that phrase. Of course, my career ended in high school in the 90's, and we didn't have many angles. This is truly a quality forum. Welcome to it... Now send mead107 some wine before he gets cranky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCJanko Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Welcome to it... Now send mead107 some wine before he gets cranky! Oh, man. Does it have to be good wine? I only know craft beers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Oh, man. Does it have to be good wine? I only know craft beers. You're your own agent in this transaction...I'm just the messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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