Update on Chris Hogan

[Deranged Rhino]

Chris Hogan is more Tony Shaloub than Art Monk.

 

:lol:

[MattM]

I could see Hogan being to this team what Ricky Proehl was to the Rams ca. 2000. He was a WR3/WR4 who didn't have a particular elite skill, but was a solid well rounded player who was a big part of that team's success.

l

 

Let's hope he's as good and long-lived as Ricky. Didn't he play into his 60's, or did it only seem that way?

[DrDawkinstein]

Yes and no. Da'Rick is on the street with at least 1 (and I believe 2) more arrests under his belt. He isn't worth the trouble. The point remains (same as always) that if he didn't work you replace him with an Andre Davis type. You don't need to protect the type of talent that you can find out on the street. You take shots on the bottom of the roster on guys that can potentially become starters.

 

You can always find bottom of the roster guys similar to the ones that you already have. In training camp alone the Bills have found the 2 young receivers and added Red Bryant, IK and Buchanon all of whom may make the team. I think Mulligan as well. They are guys that were just kind of there but maybe as good as the last guys that you have at that spot. You don't need to say "we need to save a spot for Mulligan" because if you lose him you just go find the next Mulligan. You don't do that with guys like Marcus Lattimore for example. You take a shot and if it works great and if it doesn't you go get a Bronson Hill.

 

I'm done on the topic though as the dead horse has been beaten.

 

 

Lucky for you, a new Hogan thread was started this morning!

[rstencel]

I don't think so. Harvin is a great blocker. Goodwin has a good reputation as a blocker as well but I never take that seriously because he is so little (that's a me problem though). Woods and Watkins are both better as well.

 

This is the Chris Hogan narrative that is frustrating. Why do we think that he is a great blocker? Is it because physically he probably should be? Earlier in the thread someone talked about what an amazing ST player he is before being corrected that he had 1 assist last year or something like that.

Not meant to be a knock on Harvin or Goodwin, but do think he is a better blocker than either of them. Agree that he isn't anything special as a tackler in special teams, but holds his own in return units believe, remember there are 6 units there, only 2 of them involve tackling.

[Kirby Jackson]

Not meant to be a knock on Harvin or Goodwin, but do think he is a better blocker than either of them. Agree that he isn't anything special as a tackler in special teams, but holds his own in return units believe, remember there are 6 units there, only 2 of them involve tackling.

Definitely not better than Harvin IMO, but probably better than Goodwin (because he is so little). Harvin is a man. One unique thing about Goodwin as a blocker is that he can get out in front and block safety down the field. He can most effectively help guys finish big runs. Goodwin can go get the "one man to beat" as the ball carrier gets into the open field.

[Nanker]

Definitely not better than Harvin IMO, but probably better than Goodwin (because he is so little). Harvin is a man. One unique thing about Goodwin as a blocker is that he can get out in front and block safety down the field. He can most effectively help guys finish big runs. Goodwin can go get the "one man to beat" as the ball carrier gets into the open field.

So you're saying that speed IS a valuable asset for a wide receiver in the NFL. Interesting.

[GunnerBill]

Hogan is a better blocker than Harvin. I am sorry he just is. I fear some people here are going to be very disappointed when they actually see Harvin on the field for the Bills.

[Kirby Jackson]

Hogan is a better blocker than Harvin. I am sorry he just is. I fear some people here are going to be very disappointed when they actually see Harvin on the field for the Bills.

I've seen lots of Harvin (maybe 30+ games between UF & NFL). He is overrated as a pure speed guy and underrated as a tough guy. He will remind people of Spiller with the ball in his hands but he is nothing like Spiller without the ball in his hands. Edited August 26, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[NoSaint]

Hogan is a better blocker than Harvin. I am sorry he just is. I fear some people here are going to be very disappointed when they actually see Harvin on the field for the Bills.

its tough because you are starting to come across like you have a bit of a man crush on hogan, and have been scorned by harvin somehow.... not even this particular post, but the general theme on the topic the last few days makes it tough to accept this possibly true opinion. harvin is a jerk, but hes stupid talented at a lot of things.

[GunnerBill]

See that is the accusation again and again. "Oh you must just like Hogan." A couple of years ago I didn't particularly want Hogan on this team initially any more than anyone else. I want him on this team now because of what he has shown and what I have seen.

 

It is the same on Harvin. I said this about Harvin when then Jets signed him during last season. I think he is a very overrated wide receiver. Is he super talented? Yes. But I think he is still leaning on that talent rather than perfecting his craft after what? 5 or 6 years in the league?

 

Both these opinions are based on what I have seen and they are entirely independant of one another. I am not suddenly ragging on Harvin because I want to keep Hogan ahead of him. I have never said that anywhere. I would not have signed Harvin, certainly not to the noney we did, but I suppose if you look at it as a one year rental then it can be justified and it is better than sitting on spare cap money I suppose.

 

The only link I have ever made between the two is that my doubts about Harvin make it more important to me for the Bills to have a versatile guy who can play in all the positions incase Sammy or Woods go down.

 

I have posted my opinions on why throughout this thread. You disagree with them - that is fine I am not here to agree all the time. But the accusation that this is some kind of man crush that is based purely on who I like and who I don't is ridiculous.

 

PS. Nobody would love to be wrong on Harvin more than me I just think the love for his receiving skills when he has never had a 1,000 yard season is a bit much. He is an elite return guy and is he wins the Bills a couple of games with returns this year he is worth the money. But I doubt him as a true wideout.

Edited August 26, 2015 by GunnerBill

[JohnC]

its tough because you are starting to come across like you have a bit of a man crush on hogan, and have been scorned by harvin somehow.... not even this particular post, but the general theme on the topic the last few days makes it tough to accept this possibly true opinion. harvin is a jerk, but hes stupid talented at a lot of things.

It is difficult to challenge the claim that Harvin is an immensively talented player. What also can't be ignored is that the many teams he has already played for are relieved to get his petulent arse out of their town as soon as possible. What happens when our less than prolific passers can't get him the ball to sufficiently satisfiy him? How is this prickly player going to respond when Watkins is targeted much more than he is? Is his volatile presence going to affect Robert Woods who has displayed his own frustrations at his lack of involvement in the office.

 

It is not an unreasonable debate whether it is better to have a less talented but more complementary teammate on the roster than risk having a player who is capable of creating debilitating tension in the lockerroom.

 

As a recent article on Harvin indicated (to me) is that he is a self-absorbed hot personality who blames everyone else for the issues that surround him.

 

I'm not pro or anti-Harvin. What I am is very wary of this character. Most often you get what you get instead of getting what you hope to get. Caveat Emptor!!!!

Edited August 26, 2015 by JohnC

[NoSaint]

See that is the accusation again and again. "Oh you must just like Hogan." A couple of years ago I didn't particularly want Hogan on this team initially any more than anyone else. I want him on this team now because of what he has shown and what I have seen.

 

It is the same on Harvin. I said this about Harvin when then Jets signed him during last season. I think he is a very overrated wide receiver. Is he super talented? Yes. But I think he is still leaning on that talent rather than perfecting his craft after what? 5 or 6 years in the league?

 

Both these opinions are based on what I have seen and they are entirely independant of one another. I am not suddenly ragging on Harvin because I want to keep Hogan ahead of him. I have never said that anywhere. I would not have signed Harvin, certainly not to the noney we did, but I suppose if you look at it as a one year rental then it can be justified and it is better than sitting on spare cap money I suppose.

 

The only link I have ever made between the two is that my doubts about Harvin make it more important to me for the Bills to have a versatile guy who can play in all the positions incase Sammy or Woods go down.

 

I have posted my opinions on why throughout this thread. You disagree with them - that is fine I am not here to agree all the time. But the accusation that this is some kind of man crush that is based purely on who I like and who I don't is ridiculous.

 

PS. Nobody would love to be wrong on Harvin more than me I just think the love for his receiving skills when he has never had a 1,000 yard season is a bit much. He is an elite return guy and is he wins the Bills a couple of games with returns this year he is worth the money. But I doubt him as a true wideout.

it was a little bit of jest - but when you are so down on all things harvin, and so high on all things hogan, its tough to simply accept an assertion from you like that. harvin is a special talent, and even if he isnt as technically sound (which i think hes further along than you give credit for), hes a better player. no GM in the league would take hogan over harvin (unless percy punched some GM that we dont know about).

It is difficult to challenge the claim that Harvin is an immensively talented player. What also can't be ignored is that the many teams he has already played for are relieved to get his petulent arse out of their town as soon as possible. What happens when our less than prolific passers can't get him the ball to sufficiently satisfiy him? How is this prickly player going to respond when Watkins is targeted much more than he is? Is his volatile presence going to affect Robert Woods who has displayed his own frustrations at his lack of involvement in the office.

 

It is not an unreasonable debate whether it is better to have a less talented but more complementary teammate on the roster than risk having a player who is capable of creating debilitating tension in the lockerroom.

 

As a recent article on Harvin indicated (to me) is that he is a self-absorbed hot personality who blames everyone else for the issues that surround him.

 

I'm not pro or anti-Harvin. What I am is very wary of this character. Most often you get what you get instead of getting what you hope to get. Caveat Emptor!!!!

ill be the first to say hes a headcase. i led the charge in saying trades for him wouldve been ridiculous dating back to his vikings days. ive probably soured more unfamiliar posters on him than anyone else, honestly.

 

but on the field, hes absolutely ridiculous talent, tough as nails, and fiercely competitive.

Edited August 26, 2015 by NoSaint

[GunnerBill]

no GM in the league would take hogan over harvin (unless percy punched some GM that we dont know about).

 

31 out of 32 GMS in the league. I only say probably because I honestly don't think the GM in Seattle would have Harvin back for free. I also repeat - I am not advocating for Hogan over Harvin. That has never been my point, and the two opinions - my opinion of Hogan and my opinion of Harvin exist entirely separately from one another.

[NoSaint]

 

31 out of 32 GMS in the league. I only say probably because I honestly don't think the GM in Seattle would have Harvin back for free. I also repeat - I am not advocating for Hogan over Harvin. That has never been my point, and the two opinions - my opinion of Hogan and my opinion of Harvin exist entirely separately from one another.

fair enough!

 

i do believe if we can keep harvin engaged, which admittedly is an "if," he is every bit as capable of a blocker (if not more fierce with his attitude and scrappiness).... to get back to the blocking topic.

 

if he checks out and is upset, he could very well let that go though.

[JohnC]

it was a little bit of jest - but when you are so down on all things harvin, and so high on all things hogan, its tough to simply accept an assertion from you like that. harvin is a special talent, and even if he isnt as technically sound (which i think hes further along than you give credit for), hes a better player. no GM in the league would take hogan over harvin (unless percy punched some GM that we dont know about).

ill be the first to say hes a headcase. i led the charge in saying trades for him wouldve been ridiculous dating back to his vikings days. ive probably soured more unfamiliar posters on him than anyone else, honestly.

 

but on the field, hes absolutely ridiculous talent, tough as nails, and fiercely competitive.

Every team he has played was aware of his immense talent before acquiring him. Yet every he team he played for preferred showing this uniquely prickly talent the door. All teams have a variety of personalities some of which are very challenging to put up with. When putting together a roster it isn't just about talent level. How a player fits in with the other players is a consideration.

 

One doesn't have to be a prominent psychologist to recognize that Harvin is self-centered and acts out when things don't go the way he wants it to. Harvin is joining a team that is deficient at the qb position and in the passing game. That is a reciple for frustration not only for him but also for Watkins and Woods.With his addition you are adding a lot of fuel to a potentially hazardous situation.

 

As I said in the prior post I am not anti-Harvin. Adding him to the receiver corps mix, already a quality grouping, is a risky proposition. Instead of bringing him into the fold the organization should have expended their resources on adding more talent to the OL which is very thin. In my view that would have been a better way to go.

[NoSaint]

Every team he has played was aware of his immense talent before acquiring him. Yet every he team he played for preferred showing this uniquely prickly talent the door. All teams have a variety of personalities some of which are very challenging to put up with. When putting together a roster it isn't just about talent level. How a player fits in with the other players is a consideration.

 

One doesn't have to be a prominent psychologist to recognize that Harvin is self-centered and acts out when things don't go the way he wants it to. Harvin is joining a team that is deficient at the qb position and in the passing game. That is a reciple for frustration not only for him but also for Watkins and Woods.With his addition you are adding a lot of fuel to a potentially hazardous situation.

 

As I said in the prior post I am not anti-Harvin. Adding him to the receiver corps mix, already a quality grouping, is a risky proposition. Instead of bringing him into the fold the organization should have expended their resources on adding more talent to the OL which is very thin. In my view that would have been a better way to go.

its a valid discussion. and i was never a fan of investing in a trade or long term contract with the guy. but can stomach a 1 year rental with what seems to be an established positive relationship with the coaching staff. im aware come week 12 he might be a trainwreck.

 

but in the discussion of whether hes a complete player, his ability at various tasks on the field, etc.... its hard to find a knock on the guy beyond who knows when it could blow up.

[Rocky Landing]

It is difficult to challenge the claim that Harvin is an immensively talented player. What also can't be ignored is that the many teams he has already played for are relieved to get his petulent arse out of their town as soon as possible. What happens when our less than prolific passers can't get him the ball to sufficiently satisfiy him? How is this prickly player going to respond when Watkins is targeted much more than he is? Is his volatile presence going to affect Robert Woods who has displayed his own frustrations at his lack of involvement in the office.

 

It is not an unreasonable debate whether it is better to have a less talented but more complementary teammate on the roster than risk having a player who is capable of creating debilitating tension in the lockerroom.

 

As a recent article on Harvin indicated (to me) is that he is a self-absorbed hot personality who blames everyone else for the issues that surround him.

 

I'm not pro or anti-Harvin. What I am is very wary of this character. Most often you get what you get instead of getting what you hope to get. Caveat Emptor!!!!

It's an interesting comparison between the two (which this thread seems to have turned into). I think there is more to the notion of "building a winning culture" than most people consider. I think the proverbial "locker room" is a big part of that. And, for me, one of the reasons I am a Hogan fan is his work ethic (which is unquestionable), and his attitude. That being said, I think the idea of Harvin being a locker room cancer is overblown. I think we have good, positive leadership in the locker room, and as a team that seems to be a haven for second chances, I think he will fit in just fine.

 

But, another reason I am really hoping that Hogan remains a Bill, is his character, and as he is becoming a perennially under-appreciated player who has continually gotten better through sheer work, and dedication, I would like to see how much better he becomes. Even if he has reached his ceiling (and, I don't see any reason to believe he has) he was a reliable, and versatile enough WR last season, who worked especially hard to build rapport with his QB, that he can always be a consistent #3.

[Nanker]

Chris Hogan's career stats:

2011 0 games, 0 receptions, 0 yds, 0 TDs (for the Dolphins)

2012 0 games, 0 receptions, 0 yds, 0 TDs

2013 16 games, 10 receptions, 83 yds, 0 TDs

2014 16 games, 41 receptions, 426 yes 4 TDs

 

A look at other Bills Depth Receivers (most are WRs ).

Few would look at many of these and pine for their like to be on the current roster.

 

2001

Reggie Germany16 games, 12 receptions 203 yds, 0 TDs

Jeremy McDaniel 7 games, 11 receptions, 128 yds, 0 TDs

Avion Black 14 games, 8 receptions, 90 yds, 0 TDs

Sheldon Jackson 16 games, 1 reception 1 yd, 1 TD

 

2002

Josh Reed 16 games, 37 receptions, 509 yds, 2 TDs

Charles Johnson 16 games, 3 receptions, 39 yds, 0 TDs

 

2003

Ryan Neufeld 16 games, 3 receptions, 41 yds, 0 TDs

Bobby Shaw 16 games, 56 receptions, 732 yds, 4 TDs

Clarence Coleman 14, games, 8 receptions, 69 yds, 0 TDs

Sam Aiken 5 games 3, receptions, 35 yds, 0 TDs

 

2004

Josh Reed 12 games, 16 receptions, 153 yds, 0 TDs

Sam Aiken 16 games, 11 receptions 148 yds, 0 TDs

 

2005

Roscoe Parrish 10 games, 15 catches, 148 yds, 1 TD

Sam Aiken 16 games, 4 catches, 57 yds, 0 TDs

Tim Euhus 11 games 3, catches, 17 yds, 0 TDs

Ryan Neufeld 13 games, 1 catch, 9 yds, 0 TDs

 

2006

Roscoe Parrish 16 games, 23 catches, 320 yds, 2 TDs

Josh Reed 13 games, 34 catches, 410 yds, 2 TDs

Brad Cieslak 7 games, 6 catches, 46 yds, 0 TDs

 

2007

Roscoe Parrish 16 games, 35 catches, 352 yds, 1 TD

Peerless Price 4 games, 7 catches, 68 yds, 0 TDs

Sam Aiken 12 games, 1 catch, 10 yds, 0 TDs

 

2008

Roscoe Parrish 13 games, 24 catches, 232 yds, 1 TD

James Hardy 14 games, 9 catches, 87 yds, 2 TDs

Steve Johnson, 11 games, 10 catches, 102 yds, 2 TDs

Ryan Denney, 16 games, 1 catch, 19 yds, 1 TD

 

2009

Roscoe Parrish 12 games, 3 catches, 34 yds, 0 TDs

Josh Reed 14 games, 27 catches, 291 yds, 1 TD

Jonathan Stupar 14 games, 6 catches, 40 yds, 0 TDs

Steve Johnson 5 games, 2 catches, 10 yds, 0 TDs

Ryan Denney, 16 games, 1 catch, 25 yds, 1 TD

 

2010

Roscoe Parrish 8 games, 33 catches, 400 yds, 2 TDs

Donald Jones 15 games, 18 catches, 213 yds, 1 TD

Naaman Roosevelt 6 games, 9 catches, 139 yds, 0 TDs

 

2011

Brad Smith 15 games, 23 catches, 240 yds, 1 TD

Donald Jones 8 games, 23 catches, 231 yds, 1 TD

Naaman Roosevelt 10 games, 16 catches, 257 yds, 1 TD

Derek Hagan 4 games, 13 catches, 138 yds, 1 TD

 

2012

Brad Smith 15 games, 14 catches, 152 yds, 2 TDs

Lee Smith 16 games, 4 receptions 13 yds, 2 TDs

 

2013

TJ Graham 16 games, 23 catches, 361 yds, 2 TDs

Marquise Goodwin 12 games, 17 catches, 283 yds, 3 TDs

 

2014

Marquise Goodwin 10 games, 1 catch, 42 yds, 0 TDs

Mike Williams 9 games, 8 catches, 142 yds, 1 TD

 

Percy Harvin's Career Stats

2009 15 games, 60 receptions 790 yds, 6 TDs

2010 14 games, 71 receptions 868 yds, 5 TDs

2011 16 games, 87 receptions, 967 yds, 6 TDs

2012 9 games, 62 receptions, 677 yds, 3 TDs

2013 1 game, 1 reception, 17 yds, 0 TDs

2014 13 games, 51 receptions, 483 yds 1 TD

[Kelly the Dog]

Game. Set. Match. Nanker advances to the next round.

[Deranged Rhino]

Chris Hogan's career stats:

2011 0 games, 0 receptions, 0 yds, 0 TDs (for the Dolphins)

2012 0 games, 0 receptions, 0 yds, 0 TDs

2013 16 games, 10 receptions, 83 yds, 0 TDs

2014 16 games, 41 receptions, 426 yes 4 TDs

 

A look at other Bills Depth Receivers (most are WRs ).

Few would look at many of these and pine for their like to be on the current roster.

 

(Snip)

 

 

Well done, sir.