IDBillzFan Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 the difference is that the program is state sponsored and to a degree, state controlled. And in what world do you thing the US federal government as it exists right now is capable of following your ideal model successfully? You really expect people like Oama, Pelosi, Reid, Boehner, McConnell, Graham, Cummings to actually run something like this with the best interests of the electorate in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Cast your judgement as I know you will but....I work with a State fund who has invested in one of my companies. SMART entrepreneurs of course want to cut a deal with a government as the funds are MUCH easier to deal with (ask almost ANY start up person....like say Elon Musk). VC's and "savvy" money are pretty much out to do one thing - steal your company from you. On the other hand the State fund I work with invests in true start ups which VC's wouldn't touch...and BTW - their fund is very successful - so yes a government can run an investment fund and make money. The fund I work is patient, helpful and they are getting a return on their investment. LA - you clearly have NO idea what you are talking about on this subject (start up funding) - but I am quite sure it won't keep you from yapping and trying to somehow cob your political idealism into this subject.... I comment about a smart person not using federal funds to start their business, you argue my point by explaining about how successful a state fund is, and you think I'M the one who has no idea what he's talking about? Got it. Many states, counties and cities -- particularly smaller, more rural areas who have lost what used to be decent manufacturing to overseas -- have great loan/incubator programs for qualifying ideas, and they tend to be managed at the local level. It makes great sense if you have the idea and product/service, but wouldn't mind a little juice to get you going. I've seen local governments take empty buildings and turn them into low-cost office spaces for just this kind of thing. It works because it's local. Tying your startup to federal funds should be a non-starter for any smart business person because the embarrassingly ridiculous amount of paperwork required just to get their attention is enough to make a thinking person realize that if the feds inefficiencies don't screw you, their lack of accountability will. Why in the world would you put everything you have on the line in hopes OUR federal government will be looking out for you? That's not blind faith. It's blind stupidity. Frankly, I prefer the way I did to counting on someone else's fund, but the idea of saving for a few years years to start up my company with my own cash is likely foreign to a person who can't tell difference between a state and federal government. Financially, the only person my company is beholden to is me because I'm the only one I trust not to FUBAR what I have going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Cast your judgement as I know you will but....I work with a State fund who has invested in one of my companies. SMART entrepreneurs of course want to cut a deal with a government as the funds are MUCH easier to deal with (ask almost ANY start up person....like say Elon Musk). VC's and "savvy" money are pretty much out to do one thing - steal your company from you. On the other hand the State fund I work with invests in true start ups which VC's wouldn't touch...and BTW - their fund is very successful - so yes a government can run an investment fund and make money. The fund I work is patient, helpful and they are getting a return on their investment. LA - you clearly have NO idea what you are talking about on this subject (start up funding) - but I am quite sure it won't keep you from yapping and trying to somehow cob your political idealism into this subject.... Ok then. Who are you going to for the next round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Cast your judgement as I know you will but....I work with a State fund who has invested in one of my companies. SMART entrepreneurs of course want to cut a deal with a government as the funds are MUCH easier to deal with (ask almost ANY start up person....like say Elon Musk). VC's and "savvy" money are pretty much out to do one thing - steal your company from you. On the other hand the State fund I work with invests in true start ups which VC's wouldn't touch...and BTW - their fund is very successful - so yes a government can run an investment fund and make money. The fund I work is patient, helpful and they are getting a return on their investment. LA - you clearly have NO idea what you are talking about on this subject (start up funding) - but I am quite sure it won't keep you from yapping and trying to somehow cob your political idealism into this subject.... No, he has a very clear understanding, and you're balancing on anecdotes. On the large scale, governments are largely incapable of making wise investment decisions because they aren't staffed with market experts in the various fields they seek to invest. They'll invest in companies that traditional lenders or venture capitalists would never touch because the risks outweigh the rewards, and as such they take on riskier investments with a much higher failure rate, squandering tax payer money. Rhode Island, my home state, is notorious for this. Further, your blanket critique of venture capitalism is vacant. There are thousands of socially driven VC's out there doing work that governments could never do because they're passionate about their causes, and they're experts in their fields. One example: a close friend of mine is currently funding a hands-on venture capitalist venture with the ultimate goal of reforesting the amazon and to improve the livelihoods of the farmers indigenous to the area. Edited July 31, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Generally speaking when governments get involved with business dealings, those businesses tend to languish relative to private owned corporations. That's just common knowledge and anyone who says or implies anything to the contrary is a numbskull. Edited July 31, 2015 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 That's because you're an unmitigated moron with an absolutely vacant understanding of what nationalizing markets would do to an economy. Hey, WTF? I haven't even read the rest of the thread yet, but I gotta say: get your own catchphrase. Yes, I know all about mimicry and praise, but come on. Surely you can are capable of something original and good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) Hey, WTF? I haven't even read the rest of the thread yet, but I gotta say: get your own catchphrase. Yes, I know all about mimicry and praise, but come on. Surely you can are capable of something original and good.If I ever develop a catchphrase, please kill me. Also, you're a silly mother!@#$er to want one. Even if you do, that's not eligible. Edited August 1, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 and most modern day progressives would be very satisfied with swedish or norwegian like systems of govt. Well then, pack your **** up and move there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Well then, pack your **** up and move there. America, love it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) America, love it or leave it.America: Your opinion matters whether you know what you're talking about or not! Edited August 1, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 so you'd be pleased to see the us govt do this an a similar scale based on population? The Finns created an innovation and technology agency, Tekes, with an annual budget of €600m and a staff of 360. They also established a venture-capital fund, Finnvera, to find early-stage companies and help them get established Um, I believe we tried this here, and got Solyndra as a result. When 360 clowns, who have no idea about the business they are in, decide they are suddenly VCs, blessed by God knows what? That's the formula that created Obamacare. Gruber: an MIT professor with 0 experience in the insurance field. 0 experience being a doctor. 0 experience being a nurse(which btw is more important when we are creating health care systems, and you know it). 0 experience being an IT project manager. 0 experience leading anything. 0 experience being accountable for the efforts of 10 people, never mind the 1000+ who worked on Obamacare. 0 experience being a techincal architect. 0 experience being a client-side exectutive project sponsor(meaning he knows how to deal with with and manage consultant partners and project managers). 0 experience designing enterprise systems, never mind Federal, "everybody in the country" systems. And, worst of all 0 experience in the real world whatsoever. And of course, 100% experience creating theoretical, mathematical models of what health care, "might do", if this macroeconomic, top-down approach, or that one, is taken. You really, honestly, want us to be impressed with 360 Grubers playing at being VCs, with none of their own personal $ involved, with no personal risk or reward, funded by the Finnish government. Did you even bother to research what the hiring standards were for the vaunted 360? Did they? Hell, you were capable of perceiving the solution I have built. Therefore, I refuse to believe that you are incapable of seeing the "F'ed before we even start" reality here. You are defying all reason and intellectual responsibility with this, which is why I feel compelled to whack you upside the head and say "wake the F up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Um, I believe we tried this here, and got Solyndra as a result. When 360 clowns, who have no idea about the business they are in, decide they are suddenly VCs, blessed by God knows what? That's the formula that created Obamacare. Gruber: an MIT professor with 0 experience in the insurance field. 0 experience being a doctor. 0 experience being a nurse(which btw is more important when we are creating health care systems, and you know it). 0 experience being an IT project manager. 0 experience leading anything. 0 experience being accountable for the efforts of 10 people, never mind the 1000+ who worked on Obamacare. 0 experience being a techincal architect. 0 experience being a client-side exectutive project sponsor(meaning he knows how to deal with with and manage consultant partners and project managers). 0 experience designing enterprise systems, never mind Federal, "everybody in the country" systems. And, worst of all 0 experience in the real world whatsoever. And of course, 100% experience creating theoretical, mathematical models of what health care, "might do", if this macroeconomic, top-down approach, or that one, is taken. You really, honestly, want us to be impressed with 360 Grubers playing at being VCs, with none of their own personal $ involved, with no personal risk or reward, funded by the Finnish government. Did you even bother to research what the hiring standards were for the vaunted 360? Did they? Hell, you were capable of perceiving the solution I have built. Therefore, I refuse to believe that you are incapable of seeing the "F'ed before we even start" reality here. You are defying all reason and intellectual responsibility with this, which is why I feel compelled to whack you upside the head and say "wake the F up". Yes, but you have missed the point entirely. Gruber has read the classics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Well then, pack your **** up and move there. I thought you were the one that was moving to get away from Obama's America? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I comment about a smart person not using federal funds to start their business, you argue my point by explaining about how successful a state fund is, and you think I'M the one who has no idea what he's talking about? Got it. Many states, counties and cities -- particularly smaller, more rural areas who have lost what used to be decent manufacturing to overseas -- have great loan/incubator programs for qualifying ideas, and they tend to be managed at the local level. It makes great sense if you have the idea and product/service, but wouldn't mind a little juice to get you going. I've seen local governments take empty buildings and turn them into low-cost office spaces for just this kind of thing. It works because it's local. Tying your startup to federal funds should be a non-starter for any smart business person because the embarrassingly ridiculous amount of paperwork required just to get their attention is enough to make a thinking person realize that if the feds inefficiencies don't screw you, their lack of accountability will. Why in the world would you put everything you have on the line in hopes OUR federal government will be looking out for you? That's not blind faith. It's blind stupidity. Frankly, I prefer the way I did to counting on someone else's fund, but the idea of saving for a few years years to start up my company with my own cash is likely foreign to a person who can't tell difference between a state and federal government. Financially, the only person my company is beholden to is me because I'm the only one I trust not to FUBAR what I have going. Again - you starting with the premise that everything Federal sucks - and again you have no experience so you are talking out your ass. It is not the paperwork....it's the terms Bud Fox....anyone looking for capital wants the best terms - if you think private/VC/corporate investment (I have done all three) have easier paperwork that govt funds - you are wrong. What I can definitively tell you - is that the most important thing is terms - collateral, security, is what makes the difference - not the paperwork. And since you are such an genius - you are breaking the first rule of start up - NEVER use your own money - I assume you own a house and spent a few extra years saving up so you didn't have to borrow money from a bank that ultimately had the loan secured by Freddie..... Keep digging Teacon - full of idealism...totally lacking experience.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I thought you were the one that was moving to get away from Obama's America? Obama's America? You wish. It's the big government that has been growing way before he came along that I si dislike. And yes still thinking of retiring outer the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Again - you starting with the premise that everything Federal sucks - and again you have no experience so you are talking out your ass. It is not the paperwork....it's the terms Bud Fox....anyone looking for capital wants the best terms - if you think private/VC/corporate investment (I have done all three) have easier paperwork that govt funds - you are wrong. What I can definitively tell you - is that the most important thing is terms - collateral, security, is what makes the difference - not the paperwork. And since you are such an genius - you are breaking the first rule of start up - NEVER use your own money - I assume you own a house and spent a few extra years saving up so you didn't have to borrow money from a bank that ultimately had the loan secured by Freddie..... Keep digging Teacon - full of idealism...totally lacking experience.... It's like communicating with a mop. The primary difference between us on this topic is (a) I recognize the difference between federal and state governments and (b) I'm not stupid or desperate enough to tie my livelihood to federal funds. You think the federal government is a critical partner in your livelihood. Given your political leanings, it's no surprise because that's just standard progressive protocol, as evidenced by your predictably simplistic assumption I think "everything Federal sucks." I just need the federal government to hold up its designated purpose and I'll take care of me. My time, and my employees' time, is all too valuable to financially align my private company with an entity which, on a daily basis, proves it has no idea how a private business works. It would be like putting my marketing manager in charge of the books. You got money from the state...which I've already admitted is a viable option...and still you need to pound your chest about the greatness of securing federal funds because...why exactly? Oh, right. Because I'm the one who is "full of idealism." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 It's like communicating with a mop. The primary difference between us on this topic is (a) I recognize the difference between federal and state governments and (b) I'm not stupid or desperate enough to tie my livelihood to federal funds. You think the federal government is a critical partner in your livelihood. Given your political leanings, it's no surprise because that's just standard progressive protocol, as evidenced by your predictably simplistic assumption I think "everything Federal sucks." I just need the federal government to hold up its designated purpose and I'll take care of me. My time, and my employees' time, is all too valuable to financially align my private company with an entity which, on a daily basis, proves it has no idea how a private business works. It would be like putting my marketing manager in charge of the books. You got money from the state...which I've already admitted is a viable option...and still you need to pound your chest about the greatness of securing federal funds because...why exactly? Oh, right. Because I'm the one who is "full of idealism." You own a business? I have a hard time believing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 You own a business? I have a hard time believing that No surprise. I have a hard time believing you're capable of completing full sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 No surprise. I have a hard time believing you're capable of completing full sentences. Well, usually he isn't that capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 No surprise. I have a hard time believing you're capable of completing full sentences. No surprise, you didn't answer my question. And I've written many full sentences on here. So your insult is as lame as a Greg trying to make a serious point. Well, usually he isn't that capable. Oh, do you own a business, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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