The Jokeman Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The fact that the Hall of Fame is the "Pro Football Hall of Fame" if you take into account the fact that he's one of, if not the greatest quarterbacks in CFL history, yeah. Just his NFL career? Nah. But Flutie USFL career was also less than stellar. So he excelled in the CFL and was average in two other professional football leagues. He might get in but certainly not for his NFL play. Also I also bring up the debate on RJ vs Flutie is how many games did Flutie have under his belt vs RJ? RJ had 1 NFL start in the NFL when we acquired him. Flutie had more than that and toss in USFL career and CFL career a whole lot more. So maybe RJ still needed time to develop on the NFL field. I mean people defend EJ and he's played 14 games thus far and we might still him get another chance which is a lot more than RJ had in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 If Flutie had been our QB in the early 90s do you think we'd have taken at least one of those SBs?Is "SB" code for "Grey Cup?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) But Flutie USFL career was also less than stellar. So he excelled in the CFL and was average in two other professional football leagues. He might get in but certainly not for his NFL play. Also I also bring up the debate on RJ vs Flutie is how many games did Flutie have under his belt vs RJ? RJ had 1 NFL start in the NFL when we acquired him. Flutie had more than that and toss in USFL career and CFL career a whole lot more. So maybe RJ still needed time to develop on the NFL field. I mean people defend EJ and he's played 14 games thus far and we might still him get another chance which is a lot more than RJ had in retrospect.So the question we should be asking is if someone's stellar CFL career, along with an average, to slightly above average (depending on who you ask), NFL career, makes you a worthy candidate for the pro (doesn't specify american) football hall of fame? Edited May 21, 2015 by The Real Buffalo Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Rob Johnson was such a huge disappointment. The Bills wasted so many years hoping the dude would eventually develop into a legitimate starter. The 2001 season was the biggest disaster. It is telling how bad he truly was in that he was out of the NFL just two seasons later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Rob Johnson was such a huge disappointment. The Bills wasted so many years hoping the dude would eventually develop into a legitimate starter. The 2001 season was the biggest disaster. It is telling how bad he truly was in that he was out of the NFL just two seasons later. How did we win 5 more games in 2000? I remember it being painful watching these RBs, and no one looking like a RB1: 38 Shawn Bryson 35 Jonathan Linton 33 Sammy Morris 23 Antowain Smith This year with a bunch of new backs feels completely different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 How did we win 5 more games in 2000? Flutie was 4-1. The Bills actually had a decent team in 2000, but RJ was absolutely awful. He took so many brutal sacks. It was like night and day when Flutie played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) How did we win 5 more games in 2000? I remember it being painful watching these RBs, and no one looking like a RB1: 38 Shawn Bryson 35 Jonathan Linton 33 Sammy Morris 23 Antowain Smith This year with a bunch of new backs feels completely different! I recall most of these guys being good. Antowain Smith was great at times. EDIT: Not in 2000, I stand corrected. I'm remembering 2001, when he kicked ass for the Patriots. Edited May 21, 2015 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 So the question we should be asking is if someone's stellar CFL career, along with an average, to slightly above average (depending on who you ask), NFL career, makes you a worthy candidate for the pro (doesn't specify american) football hall of fame? I won't deny Flutie was stellar in the CFL but in terms of the NFL, at his best he was pretty good in 1998 but in 1999 he was a game manager but he was subpar in his stints with Chicago/New England and San Diego. Trump knew he was a mistake and why he pursued Kelly in the USFL. So great in one league but to me below average in two other leagues which means he was at best average. Sorry no HOF IMHO. Yet I'll admit I hated Flutie and still do as think he did more harm than help this team. As to me not letting us see what RJ had to offer long term is what set us back. As I still remember RJ playing pretty well against the Rams, 49ers, Saints and Colts in 1998/1999. In the Titans playoff game he did his best Flutie "game manager" impression by leading us to what should have been a game winning FG. I mean if the music city miracle never happens the play that will be remembered from that game is RJ scrambling with his shoe off in that final drive to secure the win. In retrospect I can admit that Flutie was a better QB but I still don't think he was best for the team we had in place. As Moulds, Wiley and Smith were supposed to be the next Reed, Smith and Thomas and RJ in the Kelly role. Not that RJ was as good as Kelly but he wasn't as bad as some make him out to be with all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I won't deny Flutie was stellar in the CFL but in terms of the NFL, at his best he was pretty good in 1998 but in 1999 he was a game manager but he was subpar in his stints with Chicago/New England and San Diego. Trump knew he was a mistake and why he pursued Kelly in the USFL. So great in one league but to me below average in two other leagues which means he was at best average. Sorry no HOF IMHO. Yet I'll admit I hated Flutie and still do as think he did more harm than help this team. As to me not letting us see what RJ had to offer long term is what set us back. As I still remember RJ playing pretty well against the Rams, 49ers, Saints and Colts in 1998/1999. In the Titans playoff game he did his best Flutie "game manager" impression by leading us to what should have been a game winning FG. I mean if the music city miracle never happens the play that will be remembered from that game is RJ scrambling with his shoe off in that final drive to secure the win. In retrospect I can admit that Flutie was a better QB but I still don't think he was best for the team we had in place. As Moulds, Wiley and Smith were supposed to be the next Reed, Smith and Thomas and RJ in the Kelly role. Not that RJ was as good as Kelly but he wasn't as bad as some make him out to be with all things considered. This analysis = RJ. He was horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) I suggest that everyone look at RJ's sack rate. It's like Cy Young's victory total -- never to be matched! http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnRo00.htm Also, look at the differential in sack rate between RJ and his Buc QB teammates in 2002: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/2002.htm Edited May 21, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Dat Mullet Tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 +1 +2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 +2 √π Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Have him Lead the Charge for home opener and then it will be over The curse still exists until we make the play-offs and as uticaclub suggests the Bills should have him lead the charge to open the season this year. Rex is the kind of coach that would love that kind of move too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Remember how worked up people got about that Bills-Chargers game in 2001? Those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Remember how worked up people got about that Bills-Chargers game in 2001? Those were the days. If that is the game I think it was and IIRC, me and a boatload of Bills fans were there. It was a total microcosm of their careers. It was both RJ's and Flutie's first game ever as a Bill. RJ immediately sucked and got hurt. Flutie immediately came in and re-energized the team, didn't put up great stats but took over the game. The Bills should have won but missed a chip shot FG at the end. RJ started the next game and sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Flutie was 4-1. The Bills actually had a decent team in 2000, but RJ was absolutely awful. He took so many brutal sacks. It was like night and day when Flutie played. I remember being at a game, the final game of the season in cold snowy weather that turned to a blizzard late vs the Patsies. RJ was injured (once again) and Flutie came in. The offense began to click. The lady in front of me said "they play different when he's in." That's what a winner (sans 1998 playoff loss) does. Roger Staubach had the same effect on the Cowboys in the 1980s when he took over for Criag Morton (who Ralph says in his book was the best athlete he ever coached). How did we win 5 more games in 2000? I remember it being painful watching these RBs, and no one looking like a RB1: 38 Shawn Bryson 35 Jonathan Linton 33 Sammy Morris 23 Antowain Smith This year with a bunch of new backs feels completely different! Antowain Smith was good for us. I miss that dude. 3 out of those 4 guys went on to play for the Patsies** after leaving us. What does that tell ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 If that is the game I think it was and IIRC, me and a boatload of Bills fans were there. It was a total microcosm of their careers. It was both RJ's and Flutie's first game ever as a Bill. RJ immediately sucked and got hurt. Flutie immediately came in and re-energized the team, didn't put up great stats but took over the game. The Bills should have won but missed a chip shot FG at the end. RJ started the next game and sucked. I think the SD game he was referring to was after AJ Smith brought Flutie, Wiley, and others to make the Chargers Bills West... the RJ vs Flutie showdown was our Super Bowl that year. It was also a microcosm of their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Dog Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Wow I hope you're not comparing Flutie to Staubach, not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 It is telling how bad he truly was in that he was out of the NFL just two seasons later. He did break the Tampa Bay sub 40 degree jinx though. That's gotta count for something. Wow I hope you're not comparing Flutie to Staubach, not even close. In their impact on how the rest of the guys played, yes I am. Leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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