Fred ain't Dead

[thebandit27]

I hope Fred is given a coaching opportunity after this year. I would love to see him mentoring our running core. He is not the most gifted athlete but makes up for it with patience, vision, and technique. patience and technique are his assets that could be passed on.

 

Agreed. I think he'd potentially be a good position coach (or asst. position coach).

[CountryCletus]

Something that a lot of people fail to consider is that our team is becoming pretty solid, we have the luxury to start signing and drafting for depth instead of need. I think a good example of that would be the drafting of Darby and Williams. If they knock people's socks off in camp, they may get an opportunity sooner, if they take a year or two to develop- they are ready when we need them. I hope we are able to continually build our franchise like this- it's how perennial playoff teams operate

[Gugny]

Something that a lot of people fail to consider is that our team is becoming pretty solid, we have the luxury to start signing and drafting for depth instead of need. I think a good example of that would be the drafting of Darby and Williams. If they knock people's socks off in camp, they may get an opportunity sooner, if they take a year or two to develop- they are ready when we need them. I hope we are able to continually build our franchise like this- it's how perennial playoff teams operate

 

But the Bills are a vicennial playoff team.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Gugny

[dave mcbride]

 

Dave, common man. You can't throw that big of an "if" into this. Fred has never, on his best day, been 1/10 of the running back Lynch was/is. Better guy? Absolutely. Better RB? Not a chance.

In 2011 he was a better and more productive - and more multifaceted - player than Marshawn Lynch. I did not say that he was better every year of his career.

 

Lynch played a full season in 2011 and had 1416 yards from scrimmage. In 6 fewer games, Jackson had 1376 yards from scrimmage.

Edited May 14, 2015 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

yea, i think he will get some touches as a 3rd down back (maybe not literally 3rd down, but that kind of situational spot duty) and if mccoy gets hurt I think he wouldnt step into the number 1 role, but instead the team would create a pretty wide rotation between the remaining guys. of course, Imo

 

i think the issue is you are comparing him to a guy that has played like that for 80 games instead of 10.

 

hes a very talented player, but with it being such a short window its hard to say it wasnt just a hot streak.

Well, if you add in the second half of the 2010 season (right after Lynch left), he rushed for 614 yards at a 4.4 ypc clip. Over 18 consecutive games, he rushed for 1548 yards (1376 yards per 16 games) at a 5.0 ypc clip.

Edited May 14, 2015 by dave mcbride

[CountDorkula]

Well, if you add in the second half of the 2010 season (right after Lynch left), he rushed for 614 yards at a 4.4 ypc clip. Over 18 consecutive games, he rushed for 1548 yards (1376 yards per 16 games) at a 5.0 ypc clip.

 

"What have you done for me lately"

 

AKA 4 and 5 years ago does not matter. Fred is no longer that back.

[Ramblin' Rob]

I get it, I love Freddy too, and I wish he were the peter pan of football. But More than likely, he is more like every other back in the league ever, than not. He will fall off and fall off quickly. As far as coaching, sure, if he wants too. But we cannot project our personal feelings upon the people that make all of these decisions, ie;Doug, Rex, and Fred.

And I thought I was a hopeless optimist.

[dave mcbride]

 

"What have you done for me lately"

 

AKA 4 and 5 years ago does not matter. Fred is no longer that back.

When have I ever said that his experience from 2011 bears on today's reality? You've (sorta) accused me of this twice. I didn't say anything of the kind, however. It's a straw man argument.

Edited May 14, 2015 by dave mcbride

[hondo in seattle]

 

1. No. He didn't. Statistically, both Spiller and Lynch were better than Jackson.

3. Fred ran behind the same caliber OL that Spiller and Lynch ran behind; sometimes, the same exact line.

 

I love Fred and he's been a "great" back at times. He's never been elite and he's never sucked. He's gone between good and great, which is fine by me.

 

But the only thing Spiller didn't do better was block. He was better than Fred in every other facet of the position. And Lynch has always just been a lot better than Fred. Lynch is elite.

 

 

Wrong again.

 

Lynch and Jackson ran behind the same line 2007 to 2009.

 

Lynch averaged 4.0, 4.1 and 3.8 ypc respectively.

 

Fred averaged 5.2, 4.4, and 4.5 ypc.

 

Lynch is a Pro Bowler and one of the best backs of the past few years. But when they ran behind the same line, Freddy did more with his carries, much more.

 

In 2010, Fred was #2 in the NFL in "Forced Missed Tackles per touch" and #2 in the NFL in "Elusive Rating." The guy rarely had holes to run through but fought for positive gains anyway.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/24/elusive-rating-2010/

 

Fred's 2,516 all purpose yards in 2009 rank #5 in all-time NFL history.

 

Fred - in his prime - was among the league leaders in yards after contact. He achieved 3.0 YAC in 2009, 2.9 YAC in 2010, and the NFL best 3.7 YAC in 2011.

 

In his prime, Fred was elite.

Edited May 14, 2015 by hondo in seattle

[Bob Malooga]

He's still the best RB on the roster. It sounds crazy to say that now, but you'll see midway through the season when he's outplaying mccoy.

LMFAO, that is hilarious...gotta love the kool-aid drinkers.

 

One more time...the team already tried to get rid of Fred Jackson, but the owner had to step in to save his job.

 

And again, he may be a better RB than Brown and Williams right now, but they are way more physically talented than Jackson is, and that is a fact, not an opinion. There's a reason these other RB's were drafted, and Jackson had to jump around leagues until he got an opportunity from an alum from his alma mater.

 

I want more physically superior athletes on my football team, that is how you win...not keeping 34 year old's simply because the fans love them. This is the problem with Buffalo sports, people fall in love with a player and never want to see them leave, even when it is obvious their time has come to move on, and more talented players are waiting.

 

Nobody wanted to lose Jairus Byrd, and look what happened when he left, the defense got better...same with Kiko Alonso, the defense was better without him on the field.

 

 

I want to build this team up to be competitive for the next 5 years, and Fred Jackson does nothing to help the future, especially if it means cutting a younger, more promising RB.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Bubbles from Sunnyvale

[CountDorkula]

 

 

Wrong again.

 

Lynch and Jackson ran behind the same line 2007 to 2009.

 

Lynch averaged 4.0, 4.1 and 3.8 ypc respectively.

 

Fred averaged 5.2, 4.4, and 4.5 ypc.

 

Lynch is a Pro Bowler and one of the best backs of the past few years. But when they ran behind the same line, Freddy did more with his carries, much more.

 

In 2010, Fred was #2 in the NFL in "Forced Missed Tackles per touch" and #2 in the NFL in "Elusive Rating." The guy rarely had holes to run through but fought for positive gains anyway.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/24/elusive-rating-2010/

 

Fred's 2,516 all purpose yards in 2009 rank #5 in all-time NFL history.

 

Fred - in his prime - was among the league leaders in yards after contact. He achieved 3.0 YAC in 2009, 2.9 YAC in 2010, and the NFL best 3.7 YAC in 2011.

 

In his prime, Fred was elite.

 

Where is this now? Because the All purpose Yards from scrimmage in 2009 of 1433, He is not in the top 250.

 

 

Edit - I see you are including kick return yards. Which completely dismisses that stat. because elite RB's and WR's are very rarely asked to kick return.

 

Edit 2 - We must also call Danny Ameondola and Josh Cribbs elite because they were right behind Fred that year with 2,510 and 2,304 yards in 2009. Are you ok with calling Amendola and Cribbs elite?

Edited May 14, 2015 by CountDorkula

[Storm Front]

 

1. No. He didn't. Statistically, both Spiller and Lynch were better than Jackson.

3. Fred ran behind the same caliber OL that Spiller and Lynch ran behind; sometimes, the same exact line.

 

And Lynch has always just been a lot better than Fred. Lynch is elite.

 

 

How can you say that? Lynch was not as good of a blocker and not as good of a pass catcher out of the backfield. He has improved significantly with the Seahags, but was nothing to write home about his first year with them when he didn't have a good supporting cast. The stats you posted above earlier show that Fred had a higher YPC each season he played with Lynch.

 

Let's not forget that Fred played most of last season injured. A lot of cats wouldn't have been able to come back from that injury as speadily as him.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Bilbo

[mikef272002]

Fred hopefully will retire a Bill and become a coach with the Bills, he's a legend here but to suggest he's remotely as good as McCoy is crazy.. When was the last time you seen Fred or any recent RB do these highlights..

 

[hondo in seattle]

 

Where is this now? Because the All purpose Yards from scrimmage in 2009 of 1433, He is not in the top 250.

 

 

Edit - I see you are including kick return yards. Which completely dismisses that stat. because elite RB's and WR's are very rarely asked to kick return.

 

True enough. Nonetheless 2,516 yards is still impressive and only 4 players in NFL history ever earned more yards for their teams than Fred's total. It's not the most telling stat but it is meaningful.

Edited May 14, 2015 by hondo in seattle

[Fadingpain]

We all love Fred.

 

He is getting old and slow.

 

This will likely be his last year as a Bill and it will be in a backup capacity.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Stopthepain

[Manther]

In 2011 he was elite. He played 9 and 3/4 games before breaking his leg (tackling a Dolphin who intercepted a pass, if memory serves). if one assumes no injury and extrapolates to 16 games played, he would have had 1504 rushing yards, 720 receiving yards, 2224 yards from scrimmage, and 9 TDs. His yards per carry was 5.5 and his yards per reception was 11.3. He only fumbled twice on 209 touches.

 

Those are MVP-like numbers, as I'm sure you know. The Bills were 5-5 with him and 1-5 without him.

 

The most yards from scrimmage McCoy ever had was 2146.

So, prorating 10 games for Fred vs Shady's 6 years makes Fred better? Anyone can spin something in one direction or the other. But, the best gauge of future performance is past performance. I love Fred. But, let's be realistic!

[metzelaars_lives]

 

I disagree. Fred in his prime was elite. He was one of the league leaders in yards after contact one year and one of the most complete backs around. Unfortunately, he's never played behind a particularly good offensive line and his prime is now behind him.

 

While I don't rate him ahead of McCoy, I do rate him ahead of every other RB on the roster.

Not true. This is always thrown around here and it's simply not true. The Bills' offensive line was very good in 2007-2008 and one of the best in the league in 2012. And it wasn't awful in between. Quite honestly, the worst it's ever been since Jackson has been here was last year.

[snamsnoops]

 

Love Freddy but need to ask, Mushrooms?

Trip the shroooooms fantastic!

[BuffaloMatt]

I posted this response when there was the initial speculation that #22 would be cut. Liked it so much I thought I would share it again.

 

Everyone who is counting FJ out is forgetting the intangibles. Great in pass protection. Good hands and great football sensibility. Can we all agree that the OL was a major problem last year? Is everyone forgetting the game winning stiff arm. Age is crap when you are talking about FJ. He will come back more motivated then ever #D3NationB***hes! F you fair weathered P*SS*ES!!!!!!

 

[CountDorkula]

I posted this response when there was the initial speculation that #22 would be cut. Liked it so much I thought I would share it again.

 

Everyone who is counting FJ out is forgetting the intangibles. Great in pass protection. Good hands and great football sensibility. Can we all agree that the OL was a major problem last year? Is everyone forgetting the game winning stiff arm. Age is crap when you are talking about FJ. He will come back more motivated then ever #D3NationB***hes! F you fair weathered P*SS*ES!!!!!!

 

 

Can you put that last part in English please....