A reasonable Deflategate analogy

[Mango]

 

I think 3 is the key here. If the Pats get nailed, I suspect it will be more for the cover-up/obstruction-of-justice than for the actual deflating.

This is my problem as well. I don't care all that much about the competitive advantage of deflating footballs. I don't think it's all that large, and each QB has a certain level of customization of them.

 

But the lieing, stealing, bribing are a HUUUGE issue. The 100% knowledge and understanding that what they were doing was against the rules, so much so they had to sneak around and lie. It's borderline incredible.

[The Wiz]

Why couldn't Jastremski--who did travel to games--be the the road deflator?

 

He's worked full-time for the Pats as an "equipment assistant" for 14 years--and odds are, he was the original guy to do it, before delegating the home games to McNally in recent years...

Could be. Wasn't aware he did travel with the team. Only that McNally didn't travel.

[PortlandiaEast]

Is cheating really so much a part of modern day culture that so many people can look at a blatant case such as this and be content with a slap on the wrist type penalty of a 1-4 week suspension?

 

 

In my opinion, a 4 week suspension is the minimum and I would view as more than a slap on the wrist. 4 games is 25% of the season. Imagine a star in a different sport being suspended for 40 games in MLB or 20 in the NBA or NHL. Thats pretty substantial.

 

Any less than that and the NFL is creating a cost/benefit situation for cheaters. .

 

Make the penalty harsh, and it should deter cheating (though I beleive i have read this is ineffective but I cant cite any sources from my memory.)

Edited May 11, 2015 by PortlandiaEast

[NoSaint]

Why couldn't Jastremski--who did travel to games--be the the road deflator?

 

He's worked full-time for the Pats as an "equipment assistant" for 14 years--and odds are, he was the original guy to do it, before delegating the home games to McNally in recent years...

I guess the logical question to ask is if the logistics would allow a window of isolated access for a road team employee post inspection.

 

What I've read implies no, but that's far from definitive and I'd like the real answer

[Cecily Fripple]

All analogies are faulty -- they're analogies, for crying out loud. At some point, Deflategate will have to be dealt with on its own terms. Until then, these analogies aren't terribly useful.

 

Everyone knew Gaylord Perry was a spitter, but it wasn't commonly assumed that Brady deflated balls throughout his career. (Until now, that is.)

 

Corked bat? That's closer to the mark, because Sammy Sosa wasn't assumed to have cheated until the awful moment when he was "exposed." And his legacy has taken a huge hit.

 

It remains to be seen if Brady's transgressions will result in the denial of post-career honors, HOF, etc. However, we know how the court of public opinion has dealt with MLB juicers. It's like they never existed. All those haters who wished Brady would "go away" just might get their wish.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Cecily Fripple

[BillnutinHouston]

This is my problem as well. I don't care all that much about the competitive advantage of deflating footballs. I don't think it's all that large, and each QB has a certain level of customization of them.

 

 

Do you not think that balls with lower PSIs are less likely to be fumbled?

[jumbalaya]

Throwing spitball is not analogous to deflating the football in my opinion. Umpires and opposing managers are aware of the practice, trained in trying to catch the pitcher and deal with it on the spot. The pitcher did this by himself and never pulled others into a web of conspiracy. Brady and his two ball boys worked hard to cheat. It appears no other team in the league was doing this. Andrew Luck sure wasn't. I doubt that this was the first game in which by Brady/the Pats conspired to cheat by deflating balls. The old saying holds true for both Brady & the Pats. Pats, once a cheater always a cheater. Brady, once a liar, always a liar. Lying, cover-up and being deceptive once you have been caught is what will and should hang Brady. Eight games.

[ddaryl]

There are a lot of ridiculous comparisons of deflategate to things like the pete rose situation, PED use, or intentionally harming players with "bountygate".

 

There seems to be a complete lack of perspective.

 

A reasonable analogy would be Gaylord Perry and his use of a spitball. Everyone knew it, he got caught. And yet people were able to get over themselves and enjoy him for the talent he was. He was eventually elected to the hall of fame for all of his legitimate accomplishments.

 

All of the interweb physicists who are concocting reasons of why a 1 lb decrease in ball pressure is directly related to winning multiple super bowls need to get a grip on reality.

 

 

 

 

add in spygate, illegal substitutions, and the fact that the NE Patriots had to give up draft picks for tampering with Bellicheck while he was a Jet all add up to lots and lots of cheating and none of those superbowls would of been won if it wasn't for all the BLATANT cheating'

 

so what haven't they been caught doing is my only question. But the fact is the Cheatriots are nothign but cheats, and their fans that support them are a bunch of m!@#$s

[pi2000]

The issue isn't how much of an advantage a slightly deflated ball gave Tom Brady, it's the fact he cheated and got caught... that begs the question, what else did he/they get away with?

[Mango]

 

Do you not think that balls with lower PSIs are less likely to be fumbled?

Absolutely. I am not sure of the rate of decrease though, and yes I saw the stats posted. I think that any rate of change on game day is of lesser concern to the league than the conscious effort to willing break the rules and procedures. An institutionalized protocol to hide breaking the rules is of greater significance to the game. It means any form of cheating could be possible with the right amount of planning and bribery.

 

This is closer to fixing/throwing games than it is any form of generalized cheating I've seen in sports in my lifetime.

[NoSaint]

The issue isn't how much of an advantage a slightly deflated ball gave Tom Brady, it's the fact he cheated and got caught... that begs the question, what else did he/they get away with?

unfortunately, without even having a way to speculate, it doesnt make for much of a conversation

[mabden]

My analogy would be steriods.

 

The Pats** deflated the footballs to gain an unfair advantage in the game, much like an athelete juices to gain an unfair advantage in their respective performance at game time.

 

What I noticed in the Colts playoff game is the ball bouncing/slipping/dropping out of the Colts recievers' hands, mean while all the Pats** recievers grabbed the balls like glue. Since this is the first time they got caught, tested, you are forced to concider how long the Pats** have been tampering with the balls without getting caught. Since the officials only tested the ballsafter concerns were raised by the Colts (half time,) I suspect that testing the balls during or after the game is not standard operating proceedure (which would be observable by the cheaters involved and assessed the tampering as low risk of discovery.

 

The difference with steriods vs. ball tampering is the NFL conducts regular drug testing, so it is a higher risk or discovery.

 

Any less than that and the NFL is creating a cost/benefit situation for cheaters. .

 

Make the penalty harsh, and it should deter cheating

 

 

Will the NFL revoke the rule change insisted on by Brady and Manning for the teams to hendle their own balls? Will the NL insitute a new proceedure to check air pressure before, during, after games and/or assign a special handler of each temas balls?

 

Pun intented.

[Fan in San Diego]

My analogy would be steriods.

 

The Pats** deflated the footballs to gain an unfair advantage in the game, much like an athelete juices to gain an unfair advantage in their respective performance at game time.

 

What I noticed in the Colts playoff game is the ball bouncing/slipping/dropping out of the Colts recievers' hands, mean while all the Pats** recievers grabbed the balls like glue. Since this is the first time they got caught, tested, you are forced to concider how long the Pats** have been tampering with the balls without getting caught. Since the officials only tested the ballsafter concerns were raised by the Colts (half time,) I suspect that testing the balls during or after the game is not standard operating proceedure (which would be observable by the cheaters involved and assessed the tampering as low risk of discovery.

 

The difference with steriods vs. ball tampering is the NFL conducts regular drug testing, so it is a higher risk or discovery.

 

 

Will the NFL revoke the rule change insisted on by Brady and Manning for the teams to hendle their own balls? Will the NL insitute a new proceedure to check air pressure before, during, after games and/or assign a special handler of each temas balls?

 

Pun intented.

Definitely, the extra ref will be assigned duties to inflate the balls to the requested legal psi level and monitor those balls with his life.

[Luxy312]

My analogy would be a breathalyzer. You refuse to take the test (in this case Brady's refusal to provide text/email) and you're guilty. Let his attorneys redact it. Anything not directly related to the NFL is out. At the end of the day, the NFL already has access to the text/email of coaching staff, other front office personnel, and other players. Sounds like there's a smoking gun here that lady quarterback doesn't want people to see.

[NoSaint]

My analogy would be a breathalyzer. You refuse to take the test (in this case Brady's refusal to provide text/email) and you're guilty. Let his attorneys redact it. Anything not directly related to the NFL is out. At the end of the day, the NFL already has access to the text/email of coaching staff, other front office personnel, and other players. Sounds like there's a smoking gun here that lady quarterback doesn't want people to see.

 

if you say they already have EVERYBODY elses, im curious what you think the smoking gun would be, which they turn in after editing out everything not sent to the people in the organization.

[Luxy312]

if you say they already have EVERYBODY elses, im curious what you think the smoking gun would be, which they turn in after editing out everything not sent to the people in the organization.

Well let's see. McNally referred to himself in a text as "the deflater" and said he's "not going to ESPN....yet" to Yastremski. He further tells him to "put a couple extra pig skins for Tom to sign". There's a whole bunch of messages that refer to a deal being made where Brady gets deflated balls in exchange for signed footballs and shoes. I haven't seen the whole report yet to read it, but there's pretty damning evidence.

[NoSaint]

Well let's see. McNally referred to himself in a text as "the deflater" and said he's "not going to ESPN....yet" to Yastremski. He further tells him to "put a couple extra pig skins for Tom to sign". There's a whole bunch of messages that refer to a deal being made where Brady gets deflated balls in exchange for signed footballs and shoes. I haven't seen the whole report yet to read it, but there's pretty damning evidence.

and doesnt address my question at all --- if they have all the texts from those guys, do you think there will suddenly be texts from tom to them? you said they have records from them, coaches, etc.... i was asking what you thought is on the phone if they already have such a large portion of the content from the team.

[BuffaloHokie13]

and doesnt address my question at all --- if they have all the texts from those guys, do you think there will suddenly be texts from tom to them? you said they have records from them, coaches, etc.... i was asking what you thought is on the phone if they already have such a large portion of the content from the team.

Florio mentioned all it would take is a random text to Giselle or someone saying "Hey, I think they finally figured out what we do to the footballs. Be prepared, and sorry for what may be on the news."

[Luxy312]

and doesnt address my question at all --- if they have all the texts from those guys, do you think there will suddenly be texts from tom to them? you said they have records from them, coaches, etc.... i was asking what you thought is on the phone if they already have such a large portion of the content from the team.

 

I'm not sure exactly how to answer that. The only reason that I can think of for Brady to NOT provide his texts/emails is if there's correspondence with someone outside of the NFL about this issue. If I'm in Brady's shoes, the only way I say "no" to the request for text/email is if I think there's something in there to make the situation even worse than it already is. What if, for example, he texts Giselle that he's coming home late because he needs to sign balls for McNally because he did him a favor? What if that type of message just happens to coincide with what they already have McNally texting to Yestremski about? We could speculate all day on what the content is that Brady doesn't want the NFL to see, but we'll never know unless he puts it out there. This is no different than Spygate and the NFL destroying the tapes. To boot, he could have his attorney redact it. If either the content of the email/text or the recipient of the email/text is NFL related, it gets produced. If not, it doesn't. I work in litigation consulting for a living and can tell you in 25 years that I've never seen a flat "no" to production of correspondence. Redacted for relevance? Sure. All the time.

[NoSaint]

Florio mentioned all it would take is a random text to Giselle or someone saying "Hey, I think they finally figured out what we do to the footballs. Be prepared, and sorry for what may be on the news."

which i would be incredibly surprised if they turned in to the league if left in his lawyers hands, even if that text took place. and that would leave us back at short of turning over the full phone - the picture probably doesnt get much clearer no matter what.

 

i know saying "they would lie anyway" isnt a particularly satisfying answer, but in the "well why didnt he turn over his own edited log" conversation, i dont know what people wouldve expected to show up. they have team records already and they dont trust him to be honest... i think we know what we would know from brady even if he cooperated.

Edited May 11, 2015 by NoSaint