How long before players learn new schemes?

[Buffalo Boy]

As I read all these posts about which QB should start, and playoffs here we come , I think we need to remember we are starting from scratch on offense and defense.

Both squads will be learning new terminology and play designs as well as new overall philosophies.

Last year it took close to half the season for the safeties and DBs to get it together. Our defensive backfield was sketchy during parts of the the first half of the season.

On offense, it sounds like they will be doing a lot more pre snap as Roman is a real OC. My guess is he won't be able to install everything this year.

If we start off the year with an easy first half schedule, I give us a better chance at the post season but if we have 4-5 tough games on the first eight, we could be one of those teams that others are happy they won't be facing in the playoffs.

[Beef Jerky]

Shouldn't be that hard... This is all these guys have to do.

 

Not worried about defense they are always ready to play.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Beef Jerky

[Dorkington]

I asked it before, and no one answered... but I wonder when players get playbooks and film to study. Is it the first day of voluntary workouts? Is there a point before or after that when that happens?

[chris heff]

No big deal for the D, they intend to use both formations from Pettine/Ryan and Schwartz.

 

The O will take longer, new scheme, new coaches and a lot of new players.

I asked it before, and no one answered... but I wonder when players get playbooks and film to study. Is it the first day of voluntary workouts? Is there a point before or after that when that happens?

Good question, I'm guessing now.

[Clippers of Nfl]

40 days and 40 nights.

[chris heff]

40 days and 40 nights.

I think that's the time it takes to hit the reset button on the human race.

[klos63]

As I read all these posts about which QB should start, and playoffs here we come , I think we need to remember we are starting from scratch on offense and defense.

Both squads will be learning new terminology and play designs as well as new overall philosophies.

Last year it took close to half the season for the safeties and DBs to get it together. Our defensive backfield was sketchy during parts of the the first half of the season.

On offense, it sounds like they will be doing a lot more pre snap as Roman is a real OC. My guess is he won't be able to install everything this year.

If we start off the year with an easy first half schedule, I give us a better chance at the post season but if we have 4-5 tough games on the first eight, we could be one of those teams that others are happy they won't be facing in the playoffs.

Kyle Williams said there is nothing really to learn. He can't understand all the talk about having to learn new schemes. They are hardly starting from scratch on defense, especially when most of the players are the same. Maybe a bit more of a learning curve for the offense, but it's not rocket science.

[Buffalo Boy]

Kyle Williams said there is nothing really to learn. He can't understand all the talk about having to learn new schemes. They are hardly starting from scratch on defense, especially when most of the players are the same. Maybe a bit more of a learning curve for the offense, but it's not rocket science.

I know this has been discussed elsewhere but Ryan+ Ran+ Shady+ Incognito doesn't necessarily mean a dominant running attack. Where did we rank last year? Can Roman use Shady correctly or is it square peg, round hole? If not, who's the featured power back, Freddy? Bryce, Boobie?I can't imagine the o line doesn't perform better but that doesn't mean they will become world beaters, especially when they are trying to learn brand new blocking schemes.

Did Kyle Williams play in the Raiders game last year? How did the D look in that game with ALL the chips on the table. Nothing is a given when a team is trying to reinvent itself.

[3rdand12]

I think the most important feature in Roamin's and Kramers offense and how the learning curve is timelined will be UN learning Maroon and N Hackett/Morris debauchery

[klos63]

I know this has been discussed elsewhere but Ryan+ Ran+ Shady+ Incognito doesn't necessarily mean a dominant running attack. Where did we rank last year? Can Roman use Shady correctly or is it square peg, round hole? If not, who's the featured power back, Freddy? Bryce, Boobie?I can't imagine the o line doesn't perform better but that doesn't mean they will become world beaters, especially when they are trying to learn brand new blocking schemes.

Did Kyle Williams play in the Raiders game last year? How did the D look in that game with ALL the chips on the table. Nothing is a given when a team is trying to reinvent itself.

I don't expect a dominant running attack, and I wouldn'l label it a power back, it's a running back. I believe the phrase 'power running game' confuses some people. It's an offense that want's the running game to be it's strength and will sometimes have 'power formations' , meaning FB, 2 TE...., that type of offense. The RB's need to follow blocks like any other offense, no RB is going to 'power' through lineman and LB much larger than them.

I expect the line to be better, but more so I expect the offense to be run better on the hole. But I've said a few times before , the strength of this team will be defense and it will help us win, not just by preventing the other offense from succeeding, but by taking pressure off our offense by giving them short fields to score with and keeping the games close and not putting too much pressure on the offense. Then a big play or 2 a game by some of the talent on offense could win games for us.

I think the most important feature in Roamin's and Kramers offense and how the learning curve is timelined will be UN learning Maroon and N Hackett/Morris debauchery

I'm guessing the players blocked that all out as soon as Marrone quit.

Edited April 11, 2015 by klos63

[3rdand12]

I don't expect a dominant running attack, and I wouldn'l label it a power back, it's a running back. I believe the phrase 'power running game' confuses some people. It's an offense that want's the running game to be it's strength and will sometimes have 'power formations' , meaning FB, 2 TE...., that type of offense. The RB's need to follow blocks like any other offense, no RB is going to 'power' through lineman and LB much larger than them.

I expect the line to be better, but more so I expect the offense to be run better on the hole. But I've said a few times before , the strength of this team will be defense and it will help us win, not just by preventing the other offense from succeeding, but by taking pressure off our offense by giving them short fields to score with and keeping the games close and not putting too much pressure on the offense. Then a big play or 2 a game but some of the talent on offense could win games for us.

I'm guessing the players blocked that all out as soon as Marrone quit.

Lordy i hope so.

i would love to see some continuity and execution from the O line this year. I think Wood and Incognito and Glenn could dominate, if only because of communication. trust and Kromer

[klos63]

Lordy i hope so.

i would love to see some continuity and execution from the O line this year. I think Wood and Incognito and Glenn could dominate, if only because of communication. trust and Kromer

Lordy, I hope so too.

Glenn was dominant 2 years ago, not sure about Incognito. Wood has never been dominant, hopefully he will be 'good' and no breakdowns.

[Chandler#81]

I asked it before, and no one answered... but I wonder when players get playbooks and film to study. Is it the first day of voluntary workouts? Is there a point before or after that when that happens?

Pictures/video of players showing up Monday -including new players had official BBills notebooks -which I surmise are play books. Coaches aren't allowed to contact players beforehand but I've never read or heard that 'someone' from the team couldn't mail playbooks or IPads to players. I do know there's a lot of leniency and specific allowances availed to new coaching staffs.

[Nanker]

Pat Kirwan's audio disc that accompanies his great book "Take Your Eye Off the Ball: How to Watch Football," has a really nice segment by Jim Miller who discusses this very subject. He was at Pittsburgh when Ron Erhardt was the OC and installed a very complex offensive play calling system. Chan Gailey (yes, that Chan) came in and simplified the play calling by changing up just a couple of things. 1. He always called two plays - the main play, then the audible that was the QB's option when he got to the LOS and saw the Defensive set. 2. The snap count was called in the huddle as part of the play called. Miller goes on at length on how this was a great advantage for the Offense.

 

There aren't too many new plays in foosball these days. The terminology can change quite a bit, but how the D sets up in a 3-4 vs a 4-3 and their gap assignments are pretty standard these days from what I understand. 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 gap terminology is well understood, and where the particular player has a single gap assignment or takes on two -- is what they practice and game plan for during the week.

 

The O has basic alignments based on the "personnel packages" (that's not a box from UPS) that a given play requires.

You hear 11, 20, 21, 22 personnel and that means how many RBs are in the formation and how many TEs are too.

You always (except for the Pats*) have 5 down linemen at the LOS on every play, and 1 QB behind Center or in the backfield. That leaves 5 other guys to be accounted for and the "personnel packages" describe how many RBs and TEs are in the play, the rest are WRs. Both OTs have to be covered by either a WR or a TE or two of one or the other - which means they line up on the LOS. Everybody else has to back off at least a half yard.

 

So Backs hit the holes or gaps between the OLmen, WRs and TEs run route Trees that describe where they are to run and have to be if the play goes off as designed. The play called tells everybody their assignments. The QB, and Center often call out protections for run blocking and pass protection at the LOS before the snap. That gives the players a heads up as to what they think the D is going to do. The D does the same thing at the same time and tries to disguise what they're really going to do at the snap. It's like chess... kind of.

 

Probably the most variation in play calling is in the O, where a particular OC might call everything that is designed to go to the right side of the ball a "Red" play, another OC might call it something else, but they use code words to simplify the plays called. That's what they practice at in team meetings, and during the week.

 

I'm certain that the vets got introduced to Roman's playbook and were educated as to terminology. Same with Rex and the D. Read Collision Low Crossers. It's got a lot of good insight to Rex's way of handling things. He and Pettine are the focus of that book. He has his own terminology and they use "collision" as a verb. Low Crossers are guys (like Welker) who come across the middle about a yard past the LOS. So Collision Low Crossers is a directive to the LBs and DBs to smack the **** out of those guys when they do it.

 

Football is fun to learn about. The players and coaches are doing it all the time... so, it's not just us fans.

[3rdand12]

Lordy, I hope so too.

Glenn was dominant 2 years ago, not sure about Incognito. Wood has never been dominant, hopefully he will be 'good' and no breakdowns.

Wood was awful at times last year. He needs a surrounding cast which includes RB and QB who are on the same page.

I think very strongly that if Richie going to give it his all in prepping for this year. Not worried at all about his personality disorder. Playing next to Eric will do wonders for the both of them. Glenn has already gained praise by his conditioning Coach for coming in so well , well , conditioned !!

Heck i think if Seantrel and Urbik man the right side we might have something.

Pat Kirwan's audio disc that accompanies his great book "Take Your Eye Off the Ball: How to Watch Football," has a really nice segment by Jim Miller who discusses this very subject. He was at Pittsburgh when Ron Erhardt was the OC and installed a very complex offensive play calling system. Chan Gailey (yes, that Chan) came in and simplified the play calling by changing up just a couple of things. 1. He always called two plays - the main play, then the audible that was the QB's option when he got to the LOS and saw the Defensive set. 2. The snap count was called in the huddle as part of the play called. Miller goes on at length on how this was a great advantage for the Offense.

 

There aren't too many new plays in foosball these days. The terminology can change quite a bit, but how the D sets up in a 3-4 vs a 4-3 and their gap assignments are pretty standard these days from what I understand. 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 gap terminology is well understood, and where the particular player has a single gap assignment or takes on two -- is what they practice and game plan for during the week.

 

The O has basic alignments based on the "personnel packages" (that's not a box from UPS) that a given play requires.

You hear 11, 20, 21, 22 personnel and that means how many RBs are in the formation and how many TEs are too.

You always (except for the Pats*) have 5 down linemen at the LOS on every play, and 1 QB behind Center or in the backfield. That leaves 5 other guys to be accounted for and the "personnel packages" describe how many RBs and TEs are in the play, the rest are WRs. Both OTs have to be covered by either a WR or a TE or two of one or the other - which means they line up on the LOS. Everybody else has to back off at least a half yard.

 

So Backs hit the holes or gaps between the OLmen, WRs and TEs run route Trees that describe where they are to run and have to be if the play goes off as designed. The play called tells everybody their assignments. The QB, and Center often call out protections for run blocking and pass protection at the LOS before the snap. That gives the players a heads up as to what they think the D is going to do. The D does the same thing at the same time and tries to disguise what they're really going to do at the snap. It's like chess... kind of.

 

Probably the most variation in play calling is in the O, where a particular OC might call everything that is designed to go to the right side of the ball a "Red" play, another OC might call it something else, but they use code words to simplify the plays called. That's what they practice at in team meetings, and during the week.

 

I'm certain that the vets got introduced to Roman's playbook and were educated as to terminology. Same with Rex and the D. Read Collision Low Crossers. It's got a lot of good insight to Rex's way of handling things. He and Pettine are the focus of that book. He has his own terminology and they use "collision" as a verb. Low Crossers are guys (like Welker) who come across the middle about a yard past the LOS. So Collision Low Crossers is a directive to the LBs and DBs to smack the **** out of those guys when they do it.

 

Football is fun to learn about. The players and coaches are doing it all the time... so, it's not just us fans.

This one hell of a post.

Maybe your best and most coherent work.

Well done

[klos63]

Wood was awful at times last year. He needs a surrounding cast which includes RB and QB who are on the same page.

I think very strongly that if Richie going to give it his all in prepping for this year. Not worried at all about his personality disorder. Playing next to Eric will do wonders for the both of them. Glenn has already gained praise by his conditioning Coach for coming in so well , well , conditioned !!

Heck i think if Seantrel and Urbik man the right side we might have something.

This one hell of a post.

Maybe your best and most coherent work.

Well done

Wood needs to figure it out, for some reason he's getting off a bit easy with everyone assuming the problem was the guards, not him. He was never great to begin with , there will be no excuses for him this season.

Urbik won't start and Seantrel is still a bit scary on the end.

[3rdand12]

Wood needs to figure it out, for some reason he's getting off a bit easy with everyone assuming the problem was the guards, not him. He was never great to begin with , there will be no excuses for him this season.

Urbik won't start and Seantrel is still a bit scary on the end.

 

Eric has been middlin'. Last years line was just bad. and the year before was questionable.

Give S Henderson another season and a real coach in Kromer.

Urbik? My point is that line up would /could be worlds better than what was fielded last year under Marrone.

I have been expecting and FA upgrade at RG. And the Bills went looking for an upgrade at Tackle

Edited April 11, 2015 by 3rdand12

[Beerball]

Billy Joe Hobert says that it takes a lot of time.

[klos63]

Eric has been middlin'. Last years line was just bad. and the year before was questionable.

Give S Henderson another season and a real coach in Kromer.

Urbik? My point is that line up would /could be worlds better than what was fielded last year under Marrone.

I have been expecting and FA upgrade at RG. And the Bills went looking for an upgrade at Tackle

Won't Incognito be on the right side, with Williams, at least for now, on the left?

They need a tackle, even if Henderson starts. No viable backup at this point, and certainly no starter should Henderson not improve.

[Kelly the Dog]

Someone mentioned this week that it was the first time they got a chance to look at a playbook was the first day of the Voluntary workout. I think it was Cassel who said it. It was on a bills.com video.

[3rdand12]

Won't Incognito be on the right side, with Williams, at least for now, on the left?

They need a tackle, even if Henderson starts. No viable backup at this point, and certainly no starter should Henderson not improve

Its a possibility^^

but i wont bet my lunch on Willaims being healthy.

Henderson wont not improve.

 

Imo

[Dorkington]

Someone mentioned this week that it was the first time they got a chance to look at a playbook was the first day of the Voluntary workout. I think it was Cassel who said it. It was on a bills.com video.

Day one of team meetings then?

[Not at the table Karlos]

Won't Incognito be on the right side, with Williams, at least for now, on the left?

They need a tackle, even if Henderson starts. No viable backup at this point, and certainly no starter should Henderson not improve.

from everything I have seen incognito will be the RG. We need to up grade LG and RT. Urbik will back up both guard spots and center.

[3rdand12]

from everything I have seen incognito will be the RG. We need to up grade LG and RT. Urbik will back up both guard spots and center.

So broke back Williams at LG ?

I dont like that one bit.

and i dont feel they are bringing a FA in.

Urbik can play RG much much better than lg. and i would say he should be a backup to the Center. But as it sits, i think its Glenn-Richie Woods-Urbik-Henderson.

Tell me why you think Incognito goes to RG ?

[klos63]

So broke back Williams at LG ?

I dont like that one bit.

and i dont feel they are bringing a FA in.

Urbik can play RG much much better than lg. and i would say he should be a backup to the Center. But as it sits, i think its Glenn-Richie Woods-Urbik-Henderson.

Tell me why you think Incognito goes to RG ?

 

 

Because Williams is a LG and right now the best option there. Therefore, the other guard spot is Incognito at RG. I doubt the Bills convinced Urbik to take a pay cut to be starter.

[3rdand12]

Because Williams is a LG and right now the best option there. Therefore, the other guard spot is Incognito at RG. I doubt the Bills convinced Urbik to take a pay cut to be starter.

Fair point : )

Thanks

I was really hoping Bills were going to use FA to upgrade Williams. and cut him in May. I dont trust his health

[klos63]

Fair point : )

Thanks

I was really hoping Bills were going to use FA to upgrade Williams. and cut him in May. I dont trust his health

There is only so much they can do. They still have the draft, there will be more cuts after May 12, and there is hope that last years picks will improve.

[fansince88]

I asked it before, and no one answered... but I wonder when players get playbooks and film to study. Is it the first day of voluntary workouts? Is there a point before or after that when that happens?

Listened to Grag on Murphy this week. They have them on an IPad for each player.