scribo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm hoping EJ wins the job in camp as it would be the best outcome for the organization as a whole. This should be a real competition in camp as the article points out, the job won't be given to him. Rex and Roman will have the final say in a few months and I trust them to make the best call for the offense. It wouldn't be shocking to see him win the job, nor would it be shocking to see him finish third. Why is EJ winning the job better for the franchise than Taylor winning the job? Finding which one is best and putting him in a position to succeed is what's best for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Are you so insecure about EJ that nobody can have anything but a positive opinion of him? Goodness some of you are so sensitive over this kid. Yeah, asking for specific, objective standards == me being insecure? I now doubt you know what the words "objective", or "standard" or "sample size" mean. Your post above is the reason for my doubt. Opinion? Opinion doesn't enter into it unless we all of the same opinion, which, just happens to be the defintion of the word "standard". Hooray! When we all agree on the distance of a foot, it's a standard. Congratulations, you've just accessed feature #1 of TBD: you've learned something you didn't know! I am asking for the objective standards that were used to put EJ at the bottom of 3 QBs. That's not even in the same zip code as insecurity, or bravdo, or despair, or elation, or sensitivity, or callousness. Do you know why? Edited April 2, 2015 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 All of our QBs regressed last year thanks to Todd Downing. Look back at what Todd Downing (TD) did with Matt Stafford in 2013 - worst year ever. Our QBs are automatically better with TD gone. Orton was absolutely terrible by the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 All of our QBs regressed last year thanks to Todd Downing. Look back at what Todd Downing (TD) did with Matt Stafford in 2013 - worst year ever. Our QBs are automatically better with TD gone. Orton was absolutely terrible by the end of the year. True story. Bets on how far Derek Carr's stock drops this coming season under Downing's tutelage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 All of our QBs regressed last year thanks to Todd Downing. Look back at what Todd Downing (TD) did with Matt Stafford in 2013 - worst year ever. Our QBs are automatically better with TD gone. Orton was absolutely terrible by the end of the year. Oh my, is that the beginnings of an objective measure? Or, perhaps a dependent variable you've identifed? Stop being insecure! Or, since we are apparently speaking retard in this thread: stop being elated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Yeah, asking for specific, objective standards == me being insecure? I now doubt you know what the words "objective", or "standard" or "sample size" mean. Your post above is the reason for my doubt. Opinion? Opinion doesn't enter into it unless we all of the same opinion, which, just happens to be the defintion of the word "standard". Hooray! When we all agree on the distance of a foot, it's a standard. Congratulations, you've just accessed feature #1 of TBD: you've learned something you didn't know! I am asking for the objective standards that were used to put EJ at the bottom of 3 QBs. That's not even in the same zip code as insecurity, or bravdo, or despair, or elation, or sensitivity, or callousness. Do you know why? Are we going to pretend like you weren't going to just tell him how wrong his opinion was anyway? I can post all the metrics and advanced metrics that could back up such an opinion. Or I could refer to the game film and use that. In the end it's always shot down and the same "it's only been 14 games yada yada yada" gets thrown around. The guy thinks EJ is the 3rd best QB and you want him to break it down and explain why as if he owes you an explanation. Get over yourself. People think he sucks. Others think he's going To be good. Others are reserving judgement. Everyone is going to have an opinion and in the end we're all doing the same thing and that's waiting to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Why is EJ winning the job better for the franchise than Taylor winning the job? Finding which one is best and putting him in a position to succeed is what's best for the Bills. There's no question you're correct. The most important thing for the team is to find a QB who can get the job done, whether it be EJ or Meh or Taylor. I'm excited for camp because I do think it'll be an honest to god competition at the position. The coaches aren't married to any of these guys, and the way the team is built, they're going to pick the guy that helps them win games now regardless of anything else. But that said, there's not really a question in my mind that EJ being that guy would ultimately be the best thing for the organization (not that I think it's the likely outcome, just that it's the best). My reasoning behind that is because the only way EJ wins the job is if he takes a major step forward in his development from what we've seen in 14 games. I don't think he played all that poorly in those 14 games, but he didn't win me over either. He played like a young QB playing behind a terrible line in a questionable scheme. From a physical standpoint he has everything you'd want in a QB, and for moments he has put them all together (handful of comeback wins and almost-wins spring to mind) but he hasn't ever done so consistently. I don't think Cassel is a great QB by any means, but he's as good (if not better) than Orton. The coaches know he's the safest choice to play the role of distributor/game manager for this team which is why I believe it'll take a strong performance from EJ to win the job. I don't think Roman will give him the job if he looks anywhere close to how he looked in camp last year. This team wants to win now, and they're looking for the lowest risk guy at the position. If EJ can prove to be that, he has far better tools than Matt and has a much bigger upside. For the franchise, considering the investment made by taking him in the first round, and his contract, that's the best case scenario. He'd become a young and relatively cheap QB who can help the team win for the next three year window they have with the D and McCoy (not to mention Watkins on a rookie deal). If he can take that step, the Bills have a young and cheap (cap wise, for a little while longer at least) answer at the position that's plagued them the most over the past 15 years. Of course everything I said (barring the investment by the club) about EJ is true of Taylor. Only Taylor is even more of an unknown. It's certainly possible he took advantage of his time behind Flacco and rounded out his game. He's had what, four passes in the NFL? If he were to win the job in camp it would take a huge effort (and be fun to watch) where he absolutely leaves no doubt in the coaches mind that he's the best guy they have. He's fairly cheap as well, even with the escalators built in should he become the starter. If that were to happen it'd be fantastic for the Bills. I wouldn't complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffwagonscircled Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Haha, so true. I'd also add, every though I think he sucks, I'd love to wrong. Alex Smith had a season of 48 % and a few years ago had a season of 70%. Why do we have to make snap judgments on young Qbs? You might want to do some research first. Flacco's rookie year stats are almost identical to EJ's rookie year. There was a time when fans and media questioned if the Ravens could even go far with Flacco. But hindsight allows everyone to act like they thought he was a franchise qb right from the start. Stats don't mean anything. Joe Flacco's rookie year wasn't spectacular but he again showed glimpses of being a franchise QB and at least didn't have accuracy issues and had decent footwork. EJ has accuracy problems and has not shown anything in 14 starts Edited April 2, 2015 by Buffwagonscircled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm hoping EJ wins the job in camp as it would be the best outcome for the organization as a whole. This should be a real competition in camp as the article points out, the job won't be given to him. Rex and Roman will have the final say in a few months and I trust them to make the best call for the offense. It wouldn't be shocking to see him win the job, nor would it be shocking to see him finish third. Who is "the Bill?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 i think EJ's accuracy issues were related to his hesitation to throw receivers open, instead of scanning for a receiver who had gotten enough seperation to.gave him the confidence to throw the ball. by the time he commits to his throw, he tends to hurry his delivery to make up for the split second he needed to decide to throw or move on. he needs to gain confidence in throwing to 'covered' men.. then his timing will improve, and so will his accuracy. they have to move him around.. get him into the game.. and he has to challenge himself to try things he's not comfortable doing. he'll either develop a feel for this, or he won't.. but if they try to hide his deficiencies, rather than let him work through them, he won't improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Are we going to pretend like you weren't going to just tell him how wrong his opinion was anyway? I can post all the metrics and advanced metrics that could back up such an opinion. Or I could refer to the game film and use that. In the end it's always shot down and the same "it's only been 14 games yada yada yada" gets thrown around. The guy thinks EJ is the 3rd best QB and you want him to break it down and explain why as if he owes you an explanation. Get over yourself. People think he sucks. Others think he's going To be good. Others are reserving judgement. Everyone is going to have an opinion and in the end we're all doing the same thing and that's waiting to see what happens. Get over myself...for what? Being objective, and patient, in the face of staggering idiocy, like telling me asking for objective standards = insecurity? People thinking EJ sucks, or going to be good: provide objective standards, how you applied them to EJ, and falsify them by showing how applying them to other QBs produce expected results, or STFU, because nobody here gains anything from anally extracted opinions. The people who are reserving judgement, if they are actually reserving it, and not simply incapable of forming it, are: wise. We don't have the raw data required for sound analysis, period. Metrics? You? I highly doubt it. You are already struggling with the concept of obective standard. As a metric cannot be created without first understanding that concept? No chance. And, what is an "advanced metric", exactly? Is that like next year's sales projections? They are "advanced" because they come after this year's, or is it the other way around? Um, no. A metric: ....is a metric, is a metric. You would know this, if you could in fact post some, "advanced" , or otherwise. Um, this is a message board, and unlike other team's garbage boards, we actually, yes, do in fact expect you to defend your argument here. We expect posters to respect our time, and not waste it, with poorly, or not, thought out posts. Look: I wasn't kidding when I said I wanted to know his methodology. I've been working on one for quite some time(and if you haven't noticed yet, I am an expert in this stuff). If this guy's beaten me to it: by all means, then let's hear it. That is why we come to TBD. Why would we come here if all we wanted was to hear our own opinion? You can do that in your room, all by yourself, or on youtube. No. Feature #1 of TBD is hearing things you don't know, or didn't consider, or are just flat wrong about, and refining your thinking. That can only be accommplished by other posters reading your posts, and responding. QED My response = how did you arrive at that conclusion? Because I'd love to know if there is a real methodology behind his answer. EDIT: and, I'm quite pleased that was my 7,777th post. My 6,666th was trivial. Edited April 2, 2015 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Cue the "yeah but we knew he was going to be a project" posts. If you're a top 20 pick and after 2 years you're still a bottom tier player, what does that tell us? It tells us that he needs to show something his third year. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2580/drew-brees Look at Drew Brees his first two years. The third year is where the excuses run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Even if the defense holds onto those leads, EJ doesn't make the playoffs, therefore does not win two playoff games. Comparing him to Flacco just by using the stat sheet is not accurate. Actually if we hold those 3 leads we do make the play-offs in 2013. 6-10 becomes 9-7 and we would have beaten the 9-7 Chargers out on conference play as they gorged on a weak NFC East. I don't think it actually detracts from your fundamental point and we would almost certainly have been 1 and done but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Actually if we hold those 3 leads we do make the play-offs in 2013. 6-10 becomes 9-7 and we would have beaten the 9-7 Chargers out on conference play as they gorged on a weak NFC East. I don't think it actually detracts from your fundamental point and we would almost certainly have been 1 and done but still... What were the 3 games? I only remember Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 So is Tyrod this year's Tuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) So is Tyrod this year's Tuel? I get where you're going with that. But how could anyone logically justify excitement over Tuel? He went undrafted for a reason. Tyrod had at least three teams seriously wanting him a month ago. Ravens fans knew they had a legit option if Flacco went down. Kubiak knew it, too, and he wanted to bring Tyrod with him to Denver. Edited April 2, 2015 by scribo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) I get where you're going with that. But how could anyone logically justify excitement over Tuel? He went undrafted for a reason. Tyrod had at least three teams seriously wanting him a month ago. Ravens fans knew they had a legit option if Flacco went down. Kubiak knew it, too, and he wanted to bring Tyrod with him to Denver. Hm, there was practically no news/talk of Tyrod locally while he was on the team, and not even a blip when he left. Guess local media/fans here suck or something. Edited April 2, 2015 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Hm, there was practically no news/talk of Tyrod locally while he was on the team, and not even a blip when he left. Guess local media/fans here suck or something. Here's an endorsement from a Ravens legend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J5a6qHLhBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'd be fine with it. I want the Bills to win. I don't give a crap who the QB is. I just think giving up on EJ is premature. Noone is giving up on Manuel but this year he needs to earn it. There is no excuses for him anymore. This is his third year in the league & this team is ready to win now. If he can't beat out Matt cassel & Tyron Taylor, he probably doesn't have much of a future in the NFL. Haha, so true. I'd also add, every though I think he sucks, I'd love to wrong. Alex Smith had a season of 48 % and a few years ago had a season of 70%. Why do we have to make snap judgments on young Qbs? You might want to do some research first. Flacco's rookie year stats are almost identical to EJ's rookie year. There was a time when fans and media questioned if the Ravens could even go far with Flacco. But hindsight allows everyone to act like they thought he was a franchise qb right from the start. True but in His second year in the league he threw for 63% completion %, $3,600 yards & 21 tds against 10 ints. Where EJ played 4 games in his 2nd year & was then benched for Kyle Orton. I am pretty sure the Ravens knew they had their franchise QB by the end of year 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Hm, there was practically no news/talk of Tyrod locally while he was on the team, and not even a blip when he left. Guess local media/fans here suck or something. Well, I also work in Maryland, and I saw plenty from fans and local media. Here is a sampling: - Ravens backup QB Tyrod Taylor ready if needed - Tyrod Taylor Impressing In Training Camp - Flacco appears unhappy with the Ravens use of Taylor - Will Taylor be Ravens backup QB next season? - Taylor understands he'll face competition in final year of contract (note he won that competition) - Taylor ready to make the most of final preseason start - Tyrod Taylor visiting Buffalo Bills, Ravens remain interested, sources say - Quarterback Tyrod Taylor Chooses Bills Over Broncos Here's an endorsement from a Ravens legend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J5a6qHLhBE Yes, this created a lot of buzz throughout Ravens fans. When your team's captain, head coach and OC all sing one guy's praises... Edited April 2, 2015 by scribo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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