FireChan Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Cassel has a career record of 33-38 and has gone 12-17 in his last 4 years. It's a team stat but given that the defense blew 3 4th quarter leads in Manuel starts (ATL, Cle, NE) that resulted in losses, he had a 6-8 record instead of a 8-6 or 9-5 record. There is this myth that Cassel is the safer choice. There is nothing in the last 4 years of Cassel's career to indicate this. I'm sure you went through all 68 of Cassel's games and adjusted his record for games his defenses "blew." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 It's not a myth. Cassel is a much more known commodity than EJ in the NFL at this point in their careers. I'm hoping EJ wins the competition outright in camp, I'd be much more enthused headed into the season with EJ as the starter than Cassel. However, I want what's best for the team above all else. Unless EJ takes a major step and shows unequivocally that he's advanced as a QB in the NFL, he's a much bigger "risk" than Cassel. Cassel's numbers might be on the decline (it's not as open and shut as you're presenting it, but I concede you might be correct) but he's shown more in the league than EJ, more importantly he's shown more abilities to be a game manager when he's surrounded by talent. Whoever the QB is, they're going to be surrounded by endless weapons. If the line can keep him upright, all we need our QB to do this year is hit the occasional play action pass to keep defenses honest (something EJ does better than Cassel) and deliver consistently good 5-12 yard passes in stride to our weapons (something Cassel does better than EJ). (this is based on speculation about what Roman's system will look like. truth is we won't really know until August rolls around what kind of system he's going to be leaning on.) Fair points and don't really disagree on any of it. I just would feel the same way if EJ was the 11 year vet and Cassel was the 3rd year former 1st rounder. I'd rather play the young guy than the passed around journeyman. You can always turn back to the vet. That's what he is there for. Of course, EJ could make it easy and just outplay him in camp. I struggle to see how folks can get excited about Guys like Cassel or Orton starting. No fanbase should ever get excited by that. I'm sure you went through all 68 of Cassel's games and adjusted his record for games his defenses "blew." Yeah, that 18-1 Pats team he took over was awful and hurt his win total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Fair points and don't really disagree on any of it. I just would feel the same way if EJ was the 11 year vet and Cassel was the 3rd year former 1st rounder. I'd rather play the young guy than the passed around journeyman. You can always turn back to the vet. That's what he is there for. Of course, EJ could make it easy and just outplay him in camp. I struggle to see how folks can get excited about Guys like Cassel or Orton starting. No fanbase should ever get excited by that. I don't think people are excited about just Matt Cassel. I think people are excited about the possibilities the offensive firepower now on the roster. Guys like Harvin, Clay, Shady, Watkins, Woods (holy cow, look at those names at the skill positions... just typing them into a sentence without having to use "in my dreams" is kind of awesome) are all play makers and should be able to keep every defense honest this year. Of course, this will require a QB to get them the ball in stride. Meh isn't going to blow anyone's skirt up. He's (hopefully) just going to be dependable. That won't be anything to get excited about -- unless that dependability ends in a whole lot of wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Fair points and don't really disagree on any of it. I just would feel the same way if EJ was the 11 year vet and Cassel was the 3rd year former 1st rounder. I'd rather play the young guy than the passed around journeyman. You can always turn back to the vet. That's what he is there for. Of course, EJ could make it easy and just outplay him in camp. I struggle to see how folks can get excited about Guys like Cassel or Orton starting. No fanbase should ever get excited by that. Yeah, that 18-1 Pats team he took over was awful and hurt his win total. Yeah, that 18-1 Pats team he took over was awful and hurt his win total. Was that the only team he has been on? No wonder you think EJ is so much better than Cassel, you're stacking the deck. What's next, counting EJ's WR's drops as completions, then claiming EJ has a better completion percentage? I struggle to see how folks can get excited about Guys like Cassel or Orton starting. No fanbase should ever get excited by that. The same way you get excited about Manuel. By hoping that our starting QB will play decently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Fair points and don't really disagree on any of it. I just would feel the same way if EJ was the 11 year vet and Cassel was the 3rd year former 1st rounder. I'd rather play the young guy than the passed around journeyman. You can always turn back to the vet. That's what he is there for. Of course, EJ could make it easy and just outplay him in camp. I struggle to see how folks can get excited about Guys like Cassel or Orton starting. No fanbase should ever get excited by that. I halfway agree. I'm definitely rooting for the younger guys in the competition, but I'll be excited regardless if our QB helps us win. Yeah, that 18-1 Pats team he took over was awful and hurt his win total. So you only count the last 4 years, but think he wants you to stat correct for the team he was on 6 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 You're not weird and are probably correct the vast majority of times this situation crops up. The issue with EJ and Meh (imo) comes down to dependability and the state of the roster. This roster is built to win at least 10 games this year, there's no time to develop him or see what they got in him once the real bullets start flying. Meh might not be great, but he's a much more accomplished game manager than EJ at this point, which makes him the safer bet (again, assuming they play to a tie in camp). Then again, maybe Rex and Roman won't be as conventional as I assume when it comes down to the QB position. I actually don't think it's about dependability, I think it's about Rex and Roman wanting a QB who can make a big play or two in the fourth quarter in close games of which there will be many. I think that QB is EJ because of his ability to pick up huge chunks of yards on busted pass plays. I think they want, and will bring out, the college EJ. It wasn't pretty like RGIII, but Manuel was able to make huge gains taking off with the ball when he couldn't find an open receiver in college. Both EJ and Cassel have the same passing ability IMO, so the edge goes to the QB who can make plays with his feet like Roman had with Kaepernick. Is Cassel more veteran savvy? Sure, but EJ just turned 25 years old and I think he's going to have a much different, more confident and more mature pressence this year. So I think that the gap won't be anything like it was between him and Orton last year. I also think that Manuel probably has a huge chip on his shoulder to prove Doug Marrone wrong. If I were him, I'd picture 11 Doug Marrone's on defense every time I dropped back. I think Cassel may not have that super competitive edge to him anymore. I only say that looking back at his career in the last 4 or so years in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I halfway agree. I'm definitely rooting for the younger guys in the competition, but I'll be excited regardless if our QB helps us win. So you only count the last 4 years, but think he wants you to stat correct for the team he was on 6 years ago? Point was that Cassel got the benefit of playing for one of the greatest teams ever. So that helps with wins. But overall, the most recent history is important. There really is no difference in the performance between Manuel and Cassel the last 2 years. IMO, a vet should be superior to the young guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLbills Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Comparing him to Flacco just by using the stat sheet is not accurate. IMO, it is very accurate. It shows what Flacco was able to accomplish single-handedly. Coincidentally enough, roughly the same as E.J.. Had the supporting cast around him been better, then there is a good chance they would have advanced to the playoffs and possibly won a few games. With that being said, the QB's that posted mediocre stats and still we're able to advance to the playoffs is the exact situation the Bills are in now. Very talented team at the skill positions (minus QB and OL) on both sides of the ball. An average QB should be able to carry this team into the playoffs and hopefully fairly deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Point was that Cassel got the benefit of playing for one of the greatest teams ever. So that helps with wins. But overall, the most recent history is important. There really is no difference in the performance between Manuel and Cassel the last 2 years. IMO, a vet should be superior to the young guy. Look C I get the position you are trying to promote in this qb situation and I am not against you persay but In last years training camp EJ manuel was flat out horrible (every QB in camp was) but EJ manuel is the 1st round pick........and should have been performing far and away better then the other 2 QBs.......he wasnt Now.....I really do hope that this years camp everyone is talking about how EJ is CONSISTANTLY looking good.....and across the board by all camp goers....and not talking about the few practices that he actually looked good. Training camp is not regular season.......but man.....it WAS bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Look C I get the position you are trying to promote in this qb situation and I am not against you persay but In last years training camp EJ manuel was flat out horrible (every QB in camp was) but EJ manuel is the 1st round pick........and should have been performing far and away better then the other 2 QBs.......he wasnt Now.....I really do hope that this years camp everyone is talking about how EJ is CONSISTANTLY looking good.....and across the board by all camp goers....and not talking about the few practices that he actually looked good. Training camp is not regular season.......but man.....it WAS bad Don't disagree at all (though probably given they play our defense, our Qbs will never look great in camp). It's more that I've seen plenty of Matt Cassel regular season games. EJ threw 4 ints in a game as a rookie. Cassel threw 4 ints in a game in his 10th year. Cassel also adds nothing with his legs. I hope that EJ will learn to take off more this year. He can make plays Cassel simply can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I struggle to see how folks can get excited about Guys like Cassel or Orton starting. No fanbase should ever get excited by that. yet you have and you cannot deny it. we know your opinion as we read your trashing posts ad nauseum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 yet you have and you cannot deny it. we know your opinion as we read your trashing posts ad nauseum What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Hater Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Curious about the factual basis for your belief, if any Cassel is a career mediocre QB who has had 2 successful years with playoff-quality teams. If you look at game logs, he is inconsistent - one game >70% completions, another <40%. Overall he averages 58.9% completions in his 10 year career, even with two seasons >60%. Taylor has thrown 35 passes in the NFL for 54% completion. You might think being kept as a backup to Flacco for 4 years says something, but then again, how long did we keep Hamdan? I'm not saying EJ is great, just wondering how someone looks at the roster and concludes EJ is 3rd. Has the meaning of mediocre changed in the last 40 years ? When I was in school, it meant "absolutely awful "," THE worst ", " can not think of anything less worthy " etc...I don't think Cassel's career has been mediocre. Below average, yes, mediocre no. Edited April 9, 2015 by Jets Hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Has the meaning of mediocre changed in the last 40 years ? When I was in school, it meant "absolutely awful "," THE worst ", " can not think of anything less worthy " etc...I don't think Cassel's career has been mediocre. Below average, yes, mediocre no. That's never been the meaning of mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Hater Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 That's never been the meaning of mediocre. Then my teachers were all wrong. Damn education system ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Has the meaning of mediocre changed in the last 40 years ? When I was in school, it meant "absolutely awful "," THE worst ", " can not think of anything less worthy " etc...I don't think Cassel's career has been mediocre. Below average, yes, mediocre no. O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Then my teachers were all wrong. Damn education system ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Then my teachers were all wrong. Damn education system ! It appears your teachers were mediocre. Your definition of mediocre, not the actual one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Hater Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 It appears your teachers were mediocre. Your definition of mediocre, not the actual one. Indeed ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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