aristocrat Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Just curious as to what interviews you've done or investigations to have you think he is a 7th rounder, mentally. Pretty good grades in college and knew his playbook inside and out. Led FSU to consecutive undefeated regular seasons. And the ACC stood up to any conference last season, even the SEC,IMO. wind up throw...he's not gonna be able to throw like that in the pros. At the combine he's holding the ball high but later in a game or under pressure he'll revert back to the baseball throw. I wouldn't touch him cause safeties can adjust that quick in the NFL. The maturity issue is also a big red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 wind up throw...he's not gonna be able to throw like that in the pros. At the combine he's holding the ball high but later in a game or under pressure he'll revert back to the baseball throw. I wouldn't touch him cause safeties can adjust that quick in the NFL. The maturity issue is also a big red flag. I can see how people can get past the supposed rape, it's a "she said / he said" situation and there's unsubstantiated rumors floating around that she tried to blackmail him. I can't get past stealing the crab legs or yelling on top of the table in the student union. You are the reigning Heisman winner and national champ. You've already got everyone's eyes on you from the situation with the girl and you have to know you are under the microscope. There's no explanation that makes me comfortable using the #1 pick and handing my franchise to a kid with both of those incidents less than a year ago. Johnny said and did all the right things leading up to the draft. These guys are being coached at every turn by agents and being held out of situations that could put them in trouble. But you are the person you are when the door is closed. As soon as the card was turned in, Johnny confirmed all of the worst fears about him. I have a real hard time believing Jameis has turned any corner when his behavior hasn't cost him anything of substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gestes72 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 They need a QB when you have the Num 1 pick and the best player in the draft is a QB you take him no question and for those Bills fans who say they don't want him your crazy. He would be going into a Big Ben type situation if the Bills were to get him, his pressure wod be far less because he wouldn't have to take on a leadership role for a couple of years and if they didn't win the SB with him this year I would totally think they would win in year 2 just as the Steelers did with Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I can see how people can get past the supposed rape, it's a "she said / he said" situation and there's unsubstantiated rumors floating around that she tried to blackmail him. I can't get past stealing the crab legs or yelling on top of the table in the student union. You are the reigning Heisman winner and national champ. You've already got everyone's eyes on you from the situation with the girl and you have to know you are under the microscope. There's no explanation that makes me comfortable using the #1 pick and handing my franchise to a kid with both of those incidents less than a year ago. Johnny said and did all the right things leading up to the draft. These guys are being coached at every turn by agents and being held out of situations that could put them in trouble. But you are the person you are when the door is closed. As soon as the card was turned in, Johnny confirmed all of the worst fears about him. I have a real hard time believing Jameis has turned any corner when his behavior hasn't cost him anything of substance. Johnny and Jameis are very different. A huge difference between Johnny and Jameis is that Jameis wants to be great at football and works very hard to attain that goal. Johnny wants to be a celebrity first and can't be bothered to learn a playbook. Jameis, by most of the accounts that I've seen or heard, has been ignoring most of the coaching up by agents and is just being himself. Whether you see it as confidence or arrogance, he's being himself. As for the yelling on a table, that couldn't be more overblown, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Yes. Absolutely He is the best QB in the draft... Yes he should be #1. Unless Tampa is dumb... Simply put, all of these. wind up throw...he's not gonna be able to throw like that in the pros. At the combine he's holding the ball high but later in a game or under pressure he'll revert back to the baseball throw. I wouldn't touch him cause safeties can adjust that quick in the NFL. The maturity issue is also a big red flag. Threw 102 passes at a pretty heated pace at his pro day this week, and never dropped the ball down once. Looks like he has been working very hard with George Whitfield to get that fixed. It will only become more engrained as he continues to develop in the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Johnny and Jameis are very different. A huge difference between Johnny and Jameis is that Jameis wants to be great at football and works very hard to attain that goal. Johnny wants to be a celebrity first and can't be bothered to learn a playbook. Jameis, by most of the accounts that I've seen or heard, has been ignoring most of the coaching up by agents and is just being himself. Whether you see it as confidence or arrogance, he's being himself. As for the yelling on a table, that couldn't be more overblown, IMO. Do you think Russell Wilson or Tom brady would do that (after being accused of rape)? Big Ben was a complete idiot. But he cleaned up his act after his "allegations." Personally, I hate dumb QBs. I loved Vince Young prior to the draft and then you started hearing things that made you question his intelligence. Manziel seems dumb. So did Leaf. You're the face of the franchise. Act like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Do you think Russell Wilson or Tom brady would do that (after being accused of rape)? Big Ben was a complete idiot. But he cleaned up his act after his "allegations." Personally, I hate dumb QBs. I loved Vince Young prior to the draft and then you started hearing things that made you question his intelligence. Manziel seems dumb. So did Leaf. You're the face of the franchise. Act like it. I do not think Wilson or Brady would have done it. Their personalities are different. They likely have the same confidence as him, they just don't choose to show it as much. He also has a bit of the class clown in him. I agree that he needs to grow up, he's admitted that himself. He's not dumb, he's just made dumb decisions, which again is about him needing to grow up. Russell Wilson used to be a bully. He grew up. I believe Jameis can and will. I do think he'll always keep the confidence and the jokester attitude though, because it's who he is. He'll just make better decisions because he'll have learned how blown out of proportion things can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Do you think Russell Wilson or Tom brady would do that (after being accused of rape)? Big Ben was a complete idiot. But he cleaned up his act after his "allegations." Personally, I hate dumb QBs. I loved Vince Young prior to the draft and then you started hearing things that made you question his intelligence. Manziel seems dumb. So did Leaf. You're the face of the franchise. Act like it. Winston hasn't done anything wrong for any franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 No Florida State QB should ever be drafted that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) No Florida State QB should ever be drafted that high.People try to connect colleges and pro qb successes. There's just nothing there. Have any schools produced more than even 1 franchise qb? Edit: Two is the absolute max I can find... NC state, u of Washington but spaced out Edited April 2, 2015 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) The Bucs seem sold on him at 1. But the ball security.... Could be Geno smith part 2. People try to connect colleges and pro qb successes. There's just nothing there. Have any schools produced more than even 1 franchise qb?i agree, I don't make meaningful connections there especially when there are coaching (OC Is huge in college) changes and system changes all the time. Edited April 2, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranimal Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 No Florida State QB should ever be drafted that high. Certainly anyone can have a field day with his off the field stuff....or completely makes excuses for it. I would be more concerned with the on the field issues that were never discussed because FSU was beating up on the weak sisters on their schedule. If you want to talk comparisons to Andrew Luck, JW threw 18 picks last season alone, while Luck threw 22 in three full years at Stanford. Statistically, Luck threw increasingly more TDs each season, JW fell off a cliff in his second year. His actual performance last year was rarely talked about because FSU kept winning. But when you look at the teams they beat (like Notre Dame, who ended up being terrible), there wasn't much competition until there was....and then they got blown out and Jameis looked average at best. People try to connect colleges and pro qb successes. There's just nothing there. Have any schools produced more than even 1 franchise qb? Edit: Two is the absolute max I can find... NC state, u of Washington but spaced out Admittedly, i am lazy....but aren't there three starters in the NFL right now from NC State? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I do not think Wilson or Brady would have done it. Their personalities are different. They likely have the same confidence as him, they just don't choose to show it as much. He also has a bit of the class clown in him. I agree that he needs to grow up, he's admitted that himself. He's not dumb, he's just made dumb decisions, which again is about him needing to grow up. Russell Wilson used to be a bully. He grew up. I believe Jameis can and will. I do think he'll always keep the confidence and the jokester attitude though, because it's who he is. He'll just make better decisions because he'll have learned how blown out of proportion things can get. Momma always said stupid is as stupid does. Peyton, Eli, Rodgers, Luck they can all be pretty funny guys. But they aren't being accused of rape, stealing crab legs or yelling vulgarities in the student union. You can say all you want about how they are all little incidents that get overblown, but they all show a complete lack of self awareness. Just like Johnny. Bad guys have succeeded in the NFL at QB. I wouldn't trust my unborn daughter being in a room alone with Ben Roethlisberger if she were 20 years old. It could be nothing and we could be watching Jamies's HOF speech in 20 years. Or it could be something. Jameis is in my personal "Tyson Zone". There is not one headline I could see about him that would shock me. Now, you can defend a kid that you've never met all you want because he's saying all the right things when the lights are on, but do you 100% trust the kid you are going to put on all of your team's marketing isn't going to be showing up in a TMZ story in a month? He's got all the physical tools. The concepts he was running in college are well beyond the type of things Mariota or Petty were doing. But to not have any questions about his character and just blow everything off as "boys will be boys" is pretty naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Momma always said stupid is as stupid does. Peyton, Eli, Rodgers, Luck they can all be pretty funny guys. But they aren't being accused of rape, stealing crab legs or yelling vulgarities in the student union. You can say all you want about how they are all little incidents that get overblown, but they all show a complete lack of self awareness. Just like Johnny. Bad guys have succeeded in the NFL at QB. I wouldn't trust my unborn daughter being in a room alone with Ben Roethlisberger if she were 20 years old. It could be nothing and we could be watching Jamies's HOF speech in 20 years. Or it could be something. Jameis is in my personal "Tyson Zone". There is not one headline I could see about him that would shock me. Now, you can defend a kid that you've never met all you want because he's saying all the right things when the lights are on, but do you 100% trust the kid you are going to put on all of your team's marketing isn't going to be showing up in a TMZ story in a month? He's got all the physical tools. The concepts he was running in college are well beyond the type of things Mariota or Petty were doing. But to not have any questions about his character and just blow everything off as "boys will be boys" is pretty naive. I completely agree with every word you typed. And would still draft him #1 overall if I am the Bucs in this particular draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Momma always said stupid is as stupid does. Peyton, Eli, Rodgers, Luck they can all be pretty funny guys. But they aren't being accused of rape, stealing crab legs or yelling vulgarities in the student union. You can say all you want about how they are all little incidents that get overblown, but they all show a complete lack of self awareness. Just like Johnny. Bad guys have succeeded in the NFL at QB. I wouldn't trust my unborn daughter being in a room alone with Ben Roethlisberger if she were 20 years old. It could be nothing and we could be watching Jamies's HOF speech in 20 years. Or it could be something. Jameis is in my personal "Tyson Zone". There is not one headline I could see about him that would shock me. Now, you can defend a kid that you've never met all you want because he's saying all the right things when the lights are on, but do you 100% trust the kid you are going to put on all of your team's marketing isn't going to be showing up in a TMZ story in a month? He's got all the physical tools. The concepts he was running in college are well beyond the type of things Mariota or Petty were doing. But to not have any questions about his character and just blow everything off as "boys will be boys" is pretty naive. You're more than welcome to condemn a kid you've never met as much as you want because you read those exciting headlines and opinion pieces. I fully recognize that he could do something stupid in the future. So could any other player. Peyton Manning (a guy you ignorantly claimed would never do such a thing) could sexually harass another woman and have to settle the case again. Is Jameis at risk more than most players? Absolutely. That's what happens when you're a star that makes a mistake. I'm sorry that you feel it's naiveté that I don't jump to hysterics over every thing that comes out about him. Edited April 2, 2015 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) I completely agree with every word you typed. And would still draft him #1 overall if I am the Bucs in this particular draft. Get the feeling that Tampa isn't ready to commit to Winston until they have to hand in their card? I think it's because they know he could do something stupid at any time and they don't want to have Mariota, or even any player they draft #1 overall, think he was the Bucs' second choice his whole career there. Edited April 2, 2015 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You're more than welcome to condemn a kid you've never met as much as you want because you read those exciting headlines and opinion pieces. I fully recognize that he could do something stupid in the future. So could any other player. Peyton Manning (a guy you ignorantly claimed would never do such a thing) could sexually harass another woman and have to settle the case again. Is Jameis at risk more than most players? Absolutely. That's what happens when you're a star that makes a mistake. I'm sorry that you feel it's naiveté that I don't jump to hysterics over every thing that comes out about him. Oh, you mean THIS Payton Manning: http://thebiglead.com/2014/09/18/peyton-manning-1996-tennessee-lawsuit-trainer-bare-butt-mooning/ Get the feeling that Tampa isn't ready to commit to Winston until they have to hand in their card? I think it's because they know he could do something stupid at any time and they don't want to have Mariota, or even any player they draft #1 overall, think he was the Bucs' second choice his whole career there. I can understand that. He certainly doesnt deserve any benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Oh, you mean THIS Payton Manning: http://thebiglead.com/2014/09/18/peyton-manning-1996-tennessee-lawsuit-trainer-bare-butt-mooning/ Yes sir. Honestly, I don't even know how someone could sit down on someone else's face when trying to moon a person. I thought you had to be at least standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Admittedly, i am lazy....but aren't there three starters in the NFL right now from NC State? If you count Mike Glennon as a starting QB, and Russell Wilson as an NC State QB and not a Wisconsin QB, then yes there are 3 (Rivers, Wilson, Glennon). There were also a couple weeks last year where 3 starting QB's were from Michigan State (Stanton, Hoyer, Cousins) I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 People try to connect colleges and pro qb successes. There's just nothing there. Have any schools produced more than even 1 franchise qb? Edit: Two is the absolute max I can find... NC state, u of Washington but spaced out Miami University - Jim Kelly, Bernie Kosar, Vinny Testaverde. Stanford - John Elway, Andrew Luck, Jim Plunkett Purdue - Drew Brees, Bob Griese, Len Dawson In my eyes, there are some colleges that produce players depending on their position. Miami University's put out great TE's. I know that Iowa puts out great o-lineman. Obviously this isn't always the case and is never what scouts do but i do sometimes look at the college's alumni to see the quality of prospects they've put out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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