Bangarang Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I have actually been pointing you to real evidence to support my opinion. A video of a coach telling you what they are teaching Manuel to do, reading assignments about Parcells and Simms in the early years. You just are choosing to be lazy, ignore it and pretend I didnt point you to anything at all. Im not doing the research again. Im done wasting my time. As for Rex, he let Geno air it out and Geno was lighting it up at the end of last season. Hes received a real NFL education unlike Manuel with no balls Marrone. I have no idea if Manuel will be good or not. What I do know if that Marrone was such a buffoon as a head coach, that if he thinks EJ sucks, it would lead me to believe the odds are EJ Manuel is going to win the Superbowl as QB of the Bills. I'm being lazy by not proving the point you're trying to make? Is this real life, Rex let Geno air it out and he was a turnover machine. That great education landed him on the bench and likely out of a starting job for the Jets. There's more than one way to develop a QB. Hiding his weaknesses while he gains experience is one option. Letting him chuck it and get picked off a lot is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 He may never end up a franchise QB, but how can you not love the kid? Lovable kids are great, but this team needs a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreezeMafia Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The idiot dynamic duo gone, give EJ a chance. I just have a feeling he is going to do just fine this year. Not asking for Tom Brady, but with the roster we have, all we need is for EJ to be the 11th - 17th rated QB, thats all we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Lovable kids are great, but this team needs a franchise QB. EJ or Tyrod not counted out yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Here is Montana's first 14 starts. Year Team Cmp Att Yds TD Int W/L 1980 Rams 21 37 252 2 2 L Bucks 24 31 200 1 1 L Giants 9 15 151 1 2 W Patriots 14 23 123 3 1 W Saints 24 38 285 2 0 W Falcons 25 41 222 1 2 L Bills 25 36 263 1 0 L 1981 Lions 18 28 195 1 1 L Bears 20 32 287 3 0 W Falcons 24 34 274 2 2 L Saints 16 22 175 1 1 W Skins 15 28 193 0 1 W Cowboys 19 29 279 2 0 W Packers 23 32 220 0 0 W Montana's team went 8 and 6 not 6 and 8. Over his first 14 starts he had 20 TD's and 13 int's and a completion percentage of 65%. Manuel had 16 TD's and 12 int's (you only get 19 for Manuel if you include the 3 he ran for) and a completion percentage of 58.6%. Montana's QB rating for his first 14 games was 89.7, the league average in 1980 and 1981 was just under 75. OTOH, Manuel's QB rating over his first 14 games is 78.5 while the league average was over 91 for 2013 and over 90 for 2014. The only obvious conclusion is Montana preformed well above average in his first 14 games while Manuel was well below average for his first 14 games. A pill that seems hard to swallow for some people. Anybody that is more than a casual fan knows the rules have become more favorable for passing over the last 35 years which can be seen in the increasing average QB rating over time. It is silly to compare QB's from different eras without taking into account the historical changes to the game. Not nearly as funny as someone who compares a QB from the early 80's to a present day QB without including how each QB performed in relation to their peers. Where did you get your stats from? Your list is either wrong or Pro Football Reference is wrong (GS means game start)... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MontJo01/gamelog// Anyways, the point wasn't to make the case that Manuel was just as good as Montana was early in their careers. Montana was a natural QB who had very little rough edges to smooth out. EJ still has a lot of rough edges to his game. The whole point was to show how ridiculous the EJ haters are in their loathing of the guy. According to Pro Football Reference, EJ has the same amount of combined passing/rushing TDs and the same win/loss total as Joe Montana in their first fourteen game starts. It's funny you felt the need to even knock that down and not give him that. This is why you guys are called haters. You can talk about the different eras all you want, I can come back and do the same by talking about Montana having the greatest offensive mind in the history of the NFL coaching him while Manuel was saddled with Doug Marrone. BTW, I know that Manuel is not, nor will ever be, anywhere near the QB that Joe Montana was. Could he attain Joe Flacco franchise level status? Absolutely. If he doesn't prove himself this year will I care if they move on and cut him? No I won't. Give it a rest and give the guy a chance under Greg Roman. Edited March 29, 2015 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/175649-david-lee-comments-on-geno-vs-ej/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3435924 You must have me confused with another member. I said "expect" EJ to be cut along with an "in my opinion". Go back and comprehend get a grasp on the situation before responding. Thanks gun. Imo Must be typed in invisible font. I guess... Posted 21 January 2015 - 08:42 PM EJs faults cannot be corrected. He is a bust and is finished as a Bill. Look for his release this spring. Imo funny how the invisible font works As I said there are those here who are backing your predictive prowess saying that it was a prediction. is another post not being used for validation? for accuracy sake - when does spring end? Edited March 29, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 There are many right here who hate him. That's just plain bull ****. There are dozens of Bills fans who detest him. Read their posts. It's disturbing to say the least. Love, hate...I mean, think about what that means. Posters here are just channeling their hopes and frustrations, right? We're not being paid to make decisions, so we can be self indulgent and reckless as we want to be. Whaley probably "loves" and "detests" EJ every bit as much as any of us; he just doesn't get to publicly vent his emotions. So I wouldn't be get so bent out of shape at the hyperbolic posters. They may seem like empty-headed Pollyannas or gloom-and-doom naysayers, but they want the Bills to win as much as anyone or they wouldn't be here. Incidentally, there's a personality component to this, too: some people feel more comfortable dwelling on the negative because they instinctively believe it makes a positive outcome more likely, while others see any criticism at all as a sign of disloyalty. In short, don't posts so personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I'm being lazy by not proving the point you're trying to make? Is this real life, Rex let Geno air it out and he was a turnover machine. That great education landed him on the bench and likely out of a starting job for the Jets. There's more than one way to develop a QB. Hiding his weaknesses while he gains experience is one option. Letting him chuck it and get picked off a lot is another. You either have the ability to make defenses pay for crowding the line by hitting WRs deep or you don't. The highest level of franchise QB you could ever attain by never challenging a defense is Alex Smith. I don't consider Smith a franchise QB. So there really is only one way to develop a franchise QB. Let him throw the ball downfield and either prove he has what it takes or he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billssoul Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Bottom line...if EJ can't be successful(I really hope he is) with the skill players and coaches around him this year maybe it's time to look into a broadcasting job. (See Tim Tebow ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The killer stat against EJ is that 58% completion percentage. That is brutal. We already know he's not an air it out beat you with his arm type of QB, so he has to be able to make the easy/safe throws to win. He should be completing at least 65% of those. His throws are all over the place and the receivers got sick of it pretty fast last year. If he can't be accurate then he can't be an NFL QB. Simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The killer stat against EJ is that 58% completion percentage. That is brutal. We already know he's not an air it out beat you with his arm type of QB, so he has to be able to make the easy/safe throws to win. He should be completing at least 65% of those. His throws are all over the place and the receivers got sick of it pretty fast last year. If he can't be accurate then he can't be an NFL QB. Simple as that I think this year it's all about ball placement. We've got YAC studs that can turn 5 yard slants into 80 yard TD's, but it's hard to run after the catch if you have to turn around or stop to try to catch the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Here are some passes to Chris Hogan yesterday. Maybe its me but EJ looks stronger in the upper body and appears to be 10-15 lbs heavier. https://instagram.com/p/0vODXZQHc8/ -- I can throw 'bullets' from that distance, and I'm old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The killer stat against EJ is that 58% completion percentage. That is brutal. We already know he's not an air it out beat you with his arm type of QB, so he has to be able to make the easy/safe throws to win. He should be completing at least 65% of those. His throws are all over the place and the receivers got sick of it pretty fast last year. If he can't be accurate then he can't be an NFL QB. Simple as that I think EJ has shown the ability to throw a nice deep ball. He's shown it in college and he's shown it in the pros. The problem is that the ball is either right on the money or it's way off. It seems like his best deep throws are always right in the middle of the field. However, the opportunities to throw it deep were few and far between with Marrone. I still think EJ might eventually prove to have the deep throwing talent to make a difference and help the team win a few games. He obviously needs to get consistent on deep throws, but I think that's something that's still possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I think EJ has shown the ability to throw a nice deep ball. He's shown it in college and he's shown it in the pros. The problem is that the ball is either right on the money or it's way off. It seems like his best deep throws are always right in the middle of the field. However, the opportunities to throw it deep were few and far between with Marrone. I still think EJ might eventually prove to have the deep throwing talent to make a difference and help the team win a few games. He obviously needs to get consistent on deep throws, but I think that's something that's still possible. I think we view the world differently, because completing 1 out of 10 deep balls, with the other nine either way off or out of bounds, doesn't show me he has the ability to do much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I can throw 'bullets' from that distance, and I'm old... Link to video ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Link to video ? You can't catch his bullets on film. Too fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Bullets? I can make those throws please. We will see what he does when it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) You either have the ability to make defenses pay for crowding the line by hitting WRs deep or you don't. The highest level of franchise QB you could ever attain by never challenging a defense is Alex Smith. I don't consider Smith a franchise QB. So there really is only one way to develop a franchise QB. Let him throw the ball downfield and either prove he has what it takes or he doesn't. EJ was one of the worst QBs in the NFL throwing deep as a rookie. For his career so far, his completion percentages for throws beyond the line of scriage aren't good. Based on the body of work we have, we know EJ has trouble throwing downfield. So I guess he doesn't have it then according to you. EJ has trouble throwing downfield, reading defenses and going through progressions and you want him to sit back in the pocket and do those things more? You're setting him up to fail worse than Marrone did. Edited March 29, 2015 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Can we please drop all ej talk. He's awful and will never start in this league not sure why everyone is so hung up on him. Is it because we used a first to get him? Since he has already started in the NFL, I can only assume he will "never start in" the European champions league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Bullets? I can make those throws please. We will see what he does when it matters. Lol theres two uncle rico's here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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