D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I don’t post new topics a lot, but things are slow on this board right now. I have been having some thoughts about offensive/defensive strategy. And, who better to solicit opinions from than my friends here on the Stadium Wall! Current NFL Offensive Philosophy: Offenses are Primarily Spreading out the defense with multiple receivers/Tight ends and one feature back. Think DeMarco Murray. On occasion , when the team’s second best runner comes on the field, he just replaces this guy. The defense still KEYS on the primary runner knowing he will carry the ball 95-99% of the team. The only run option is the occasional end around. Yeah sure some teams try to run the read option as a second option, if they have a QB who can run it. Also, teams like to throw bubble screens as a complement to this. Defenses are built to defend all this of course by using Speed, multiple DBs, and smaller LBs etc. My observation: There is not a second legitimate running threat. Except the QB, who you don’t want to get hit and hurt. As for the bubble screen option as a complement to the running game, teams are getting better at defending it on the perimeter. Defenses would have a tough time adjusting to a legimate second running back threat on the field. My contrarian thoughts: Play a REAL fullback running option, combined with your feature back, this guy needs to someone who is a real threat and the D needs to worry about him. Preferably this is bigger, inside runner . Maybe, I’m thinking Boobie Dixon. Summation: Yes I know teams will put in the Jon Kuhn types near the goal line. And, it usually opens right up because defenses are still focusing on defending other things. I’m talking about employing this formation with a better runner and more than just goal line situations. I'm after another option for the Defense to defend in the running game. I think this approach could be innovative and could be a competitive advantage for teams that employ it properly. Not saying I’m an offensive genius , but I’m surprised no one really does what I’m talking about now. Especially teams like the Bills who want to run and pound the ball, and have a problem with the QB position. Perhaps we will see more of it at some point. Offensive Innovation as an adjustment to defenses has a long history from Gillman to Brown to Coryell to Walsh to Gibbs right up to the current guys. Have any of you ever thought about this? Could it work as an adjustment to the current defense? I’m interested in your thoughts and opinions. Edited January 28, 2015 by moreproblemsthanOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Guess I know where I stand on this board! Edited January 28, 2015 by moreproblemsthanOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) you have seen the 9ers and hawks do it the last few years. beyond drafting, part of the seahawks strategy was to find systems that fit the type of players the league undervalues -- whether it be a running back like lynch, or the types of pass rushers (irvin isnt the prototype for most for instance).... If you can get an ELITE back, and best FB in the game to run against undersized coverage linebackers for less than a proven 3rd WR contract it makes for a discussion. its like getting prototype 43 players at a discount when everyone starts swapping to and fighting for average 34 guys to fill out the roster (or the opposite way around) but its hard to give up that its a passing league. Edited January 28, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 you have seen the 9ers and hawks do it the last few years. beyond drafting, part of the seahawks strategy was to find systems that fit the type of players the league undervalues -- whether it be a running back like lynch, or the types of pass rushers (irvin isnt the prototype for most for instance).... If you can get an ELITE back, and best FB in the game to run against undersized coverage linebackers for less than a proven 3rd WR contract it makes for a discussion. its like getting prototype 43 players at a discount when everyone starts swapping to and fighting for average 34 guys to fill out the roster (or the opposite way around) but its hard to give up that its a passing league. Exactly my point well stated. I think if you look back in time it us the teams looking to be a little more innovative than the current dog. I know all the stuff about it being a copy cat league blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is just doing what everyone else is all ready doing just gets you even. If you want to be ahead, you have to get ahead. This is how the game evolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I still believe that the Bills have missed a trick in the past 3 or 4 years not using more split backfields with Fred and CJ on the field and in the backfield at the same time. The fact that they are both different styles of runner and the fact that they are both catching threats out of the backfield too I just think it would have made teams think more about how to defend the Bills. When Nate Hackett arrived he said early on "we are going to get the best 5 skill guys we have on the field." I refuse to believe that in year 1 of the Marrone era Fred and CJ were not among our best 5 skill players..... probably along with Woods, Stevie and Chandler. Instead we had guys like Frank Summers, Lee Smith and TJ Graham on the field. Am I in favour of using Boobie as a full back / 2nd running threat? He would have to be better as a blocker or on the plays where you don't run him you are going to get into trouble in both run and pass situations. Fred did talk about how hard Boobie worked on that side of his game, let's hope the work pays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 I still believe that the Bills have missed a trick in the past 3 or 4 years not using more split backfields with Fred and CJ on the field and in the backfield at the same time. The fact that they are both different styles of runner and the fact that they are both catching threats out of the backfield too I just think it would have made teams think more about how to defend the Bills. When Nate Hackett arrived he said early on "we are going to get the best 5 skill guys we have on the field." I refuse to believe that in year 1 of the Marrone era Fred and CJ were not among our best 5 skill players..... probably along with Woods, Stevie and Chandler. Instead we had guys like Frank Summers, Lee Smith and TJ Graham on the field. Am I in favour of using Boobie as a full back / 2nd running threat? He would have to be better as a blocker or on the plays where you don't run him you are going to get into trouble in both run and pass situations. Fred did talk about how hard Boobie worked on that side of his game, let's hope the work pays off. One thing that really gets me is in short yardage when teams put a single back alone. It seems to me from observation that teams guess that he is getting it and are right 90% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 One thing that really gets me is in short yardage when teams put a single back alone. It seems to me from observation that teams guess that he is getting it and are right 90% of the time.Well if you're the bills sure. Nothing says run like 3rd and short in shotgun with cj in the backfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 My observation:There is not a second legitimate running threat. Except the QB, who you don’t want to get hit and hurt. As for the bubble screen option as a complement to the running game, teams are getting better at defending it on the perimeter. Defenses would have a tough time adjusting to a legimate second running back threat on the field. My contrarian thoughts: Play a REAL fullback running option, combined with your feature back, this guy needs to someone who is a real threat and the D needs to worry about him. Preferably this is bigger, inside runner . Maybe, I’m thinking Boobie Dixon. Summation: Yes I know teams will put in the Jon Kuhn types near the goal line. And, it usually opens right up because defenses are still focusing on defending other things. I’m talking about employing this formation with a better runner and more than just goal line situations. I'm after another option for the Defense to defend in the running game. I think this approach could be innovative and could be a competitive advantage for teams that employ it properly. Not saying I’m an offensive genius , but I’m surprised no one really does what I’m talking about now. Especially teams like the Bills who want to run and pound the ball, and have a problem with the QB position. Perhaps we will see more of it at some point. Offensive Innovation as an adjustment to defenses has a long history from Gillman to Brown to Coryell to Walsh to Gibbs right up to the current guys. Have any of you ever thought about this? Could it work as an adjustment to the current defense? I’m interested in your thoughts and opinions. Case in point the '83 to '85 SF 49ers with Wendall Tyler and Roger Craig. IMHO one of the best all time rushing duos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 My observation:There is not a second legitimate running threat. Except the QB, who you don’t want to get hit and hurt. As for the bubble screen option as a complement to the running game, teams are getting better at defending it on the perimeter. Defenses would have a tough time adjusting to a legimate second running back threat on the field. My contrarian thoughts: Play a REAL fullback running option, combined with your feature back, this guy needs to someone who is a real threat and the D needs to worry about him. Preferably this is bigger, inside runner . Maybe, I’m thinking Boobie Dixon. Summation: Yes I know teams will put in the Jon Kuhn types near the goal line. And, it usually opens right up because defenses are still focusing on defending other things. I’m talking about employing this formation with a better runner and more than just goal line situations. I'm after another option for the Defense to defend in the running game. I think this approach could be innovative and could be a competitive advantage for teams that employ it properly. Not saying I’m an offensive genius , but I’m surprised no one really does what I’m talking about now. Especially teams like the Bills who want to run and pound the ball, and have a problem with the QB position. Perhaps we will see more of it at some point. Offensive Innovation as an adjustment to defenses has a long history from Gillman to Brown to Coryell to Walsh to Gibbs right up to the current guys. Have any of you ever thought about this? Could it work as an adjustment to the current defense? I’m interested in your thoughts and opinions. Case in point the '83 to '85 SF 49ers with Wendall Tyler and Roger Craig. IMHO one of the best all time rushing duos. Yeah that was terrific you're right. One of the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 One thing that really gets me is in short yardage when teams put a single back alone. It seems to me from observation that teams guess that he is getting it and are right 90% of the time. If you recall the Bills under Chan it infuriated many of us when they would line up with an EMPTY BACKFIELD on 3rd and short. As least pretend there's a chance you will run the ball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you recall the Bills under Chan it infuriated many of us when they would line up with an EMPTY BACKFIELD on 3rd and short. As least pretend there's a chance you will run the ball! I had that thought when the news broke he was going to the Jets as OC "will we have to defend that empty backfield on 3rd and short?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I dont think the Fullback really presents a big headache for the Defense. He's just an extra blocker. Defenses usually play gap control. As long as they have every gap covered, it doesnt matter how many backs are in the backfield, unless one of them will be an extra blocker. So maybe you study tendencies and shift to one side. Still not a big headache. Even if the FB carries, he's still going to a gap/hole that we have covered. -Enter the split backfield, 2 back formations (no fullback). Which anyone knows who has played madden. NOW there's a problem. Both backs are legitimate threats to carry. To both sides. Or up the middle. And one may be a decoy. Or might go out in pass pattern. To me, the 2back set is better to achieve your goal than a fullback set. Edited January 28, 2015 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 I dont think the Fullback really presents a big headache for the Defense. He's just an extra blocker. Defenses usually play gap control. As long as they have every gap covered, it doesnt matter how many backs are in the backfield, unless one of them will be an extra blocker. So maybe you study tendencies and shift to one side. Still not a big headache. Even if the FB carries, he's still going to a gap/hole that we have covered. -Enter the split backfield, 2 back formations (no fullback). Which anyone knows who has played madden. NOW there's a problem. Both backs are legitimate threats to carry. To both sides. Or up the middle. And one may be a decoy. Or might go out in pass pattern. To me, the 2back set is better to achieve your goal than a fullback set. Thats actually what I had in mind. The split back formation. I think it is important to have one who is a bigger more physical presence, and another who is very different with speed being the primary value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) If you recall the Bills under Chan it infuriated many of us when they would line up with an EMPTY BACKFIELD on 3rd and short. As least pretend there's a chance you will run the ball!That made me laugh. So true! I'm all for being innovative. Clearly it's a passing league, so defenses are built to stop that. More DB's, lighter LB's who can cover, speed rushers, etc. are the gold of the defense. SOMEHOW, that can be used against them and run the ball down their throats a bit more. I wish I knew how, and so does everyone else. It's what Seattle does to a large extent, but I prefer a pocket QB for health reasons. The old Bills would spread the field then set Thurman loose. The trick was having a guy who could run anywhere on the field AND pass block (oh man could he pass block!). Oh, and have a bunch of Pro Bowlers and HOF guys. That helped too. There just aren't enough good QB's to make half the teams in the league relevant. Playing in Buffalo could work to our advantage. And, if we let some air out of the ball we won't have to worry about fumbling! PS - I always thought we'd see more Fred and CJ together. Dual threat and you could always split CJ out. It's all about mismatches. Edited January 28, 2015 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Guess I know where I stand on this board! Jim Braxton and OJ Simpson... I get it!!! I formation until they stop it... Then a quick sideline toss to Bobby Chandler... Maybe go deep to Frank Lewis.... Toss in some Ground Chuck!!! Old Time Football..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Jim Braxton and OJ Simpson... I get it!!! I formation until they stop it... Then a quick sideline toss to Bobby Chandler... Maybe go deep to Frank Lewis.... Toss in some Ground Chuck!!! Old Time Football..... I didn't want to show my age. But seriously if the defense isn't ready for it. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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