Augie Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's not as much about the other events that they want to host as it is attracting a certain group of people to attend Bills games. The roof isn't about other events as much as it is a higher end clientel. Do you mean people who do not fall down on other people? I've got a good friend still in WNY with prime tix with a few guys, but his wife won't go. She goes to the Sabres games, but wants no part of a Bills game. My wife would be the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJasper Probincrux III Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Do you mean people who do not fall down on other people? I've got a good friend still in WNY with prime tix with a few guys, but his wife won't go. She goes to the Sabres games, but wants no part of a Bills game. My wife would be the same way. Not everyone wants to sit outside and be cold. I love it. My wife won't even consider going to a game after October 15th. Frankly it's a PIA to bring kids in bad weather as well. Indoors just makes everything easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 well, guess they like that stuff in texas, you think having a rodeo in a downtown "roofed" stadium in buffalo would be worth it for that kind of stuff.. but i do get your point. The Vegas rodeo is huge, too and sells out solidly a major arena for two weeks. I think the Calgary Stampede is the same............The Houston one has a major concert act every night after the rodeo. I know country music is huge here, but yeah probably not rodeo. I just wonder if we can be creative enough to come up with something similar, maybe not quite as successful but a go to traditional event of a week or more. Not everyone wants to sit outside and be cold. I love it. My wife won't even consider going to a game after October 15th. Frankly it's a PIA to bring kids in bad weather as well. Indoors just makes everything easier. This is what this mainly is. Most women will not do it, even though they love the early games, esp. Opening Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 best of both worlds.... place the stadium on the cobblestone site and use the south park site for parking. the cobblestone site is much closer to the rest of downtown hotels, existing parking ramps, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) The light rail system as it stands today can handle 5k people an hour, and honestly those trains will be full so to expect 10k to arrive by that route is reasonable. The Amtrak thing is sketchier. Not that you have done this, but I also see people say "how will 10k people get on the train all at once at the end of the game???" Simply put, they wouldn't because they wouldn't want to. They'd want to come out of the stadium and go to dinner or have some drinks or go to the Casino, etc. You'd build that into the day out. Would everyone do this? Obviously not, but many would and that would be the goal of the downtown projects in general in trying to create a critical mass of people and entertainment/dining/retail options that people would want to stay rather than immediately get into their car and leave. If you brought 60k people to that area and even retained 15% of them after the game that would be a bustling scene and bustling scenes tend to build on themselves because they are fun. What is, I think, underestimated in the traffic conversation is the number of people who simply won't need to drive to the game at all because they will already be staying downtown. I come up once or twice a year and only drive to RWS because you basically have to. If I were coming up for a downtown stadium there is no way I would not be staying downtown and the downtown hotels will all be full. There are 2,500 downtown rooms built or in the pipeline being built now. That's easily another 5k people who aren't driving to the game at all and I wouldn't be shocked to see the big hotels run their own shuttles to the stadium. I also wouldn't be surprised to see more hotel space pop up in that area, including a Seneca hotel attached to the Casino. Jasper , IMHO, that MetroRail just will not be able to handle any reasonable amount of game day attendance. I think you all are overestimating the appetite for people to hang around after a game. I know Buffalo is having a nice comeback, but to think people are going to come down early on a train or bus, spend $40 bucks on pre game food and drink, spend $100 on tickets at minimum, spend $30 inside, then come back out and spend $40 again eating and drinking just not realistic for the majority of fans. Is there a subset of fans, mostly in 20-30s that will yes. But not enough that would spread 10000 people out over two hours. That has been my experience in other cities like Pittsburgh and New Orleans that have downtown stadiums. Christ, in New Orleans a block away from the atrium we sat right down at a half empty bar 20 minutes after the game. And I am missing the hotel thing as I mentioned. I stayed downtown for 3 games this year, and it was a scramble to get rooms , and I reserved two of them day schedule came out. I know the new Marriot is going up , but as I said with Hockey tourneys and such, demand for rooms be even greater, but just on weekends. Not sure how that translates to more rooms being sold. Like I said, I want a downtown stadium, I just don't want to see it become a cluster like it did in DC. Parking has to be priority. Mass transit will not be the answer in Buffalo, nor will buses etc. Need parking and plenty of it. Edited January 25, 2015 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 best of both worlds.... place the stadium on the cobblestone site and use the south park site for parking. the cobblestone site is much closer to the rest of downtown hotels, existing parking ramps, etc.... great idea ,would be expensive though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I just don't think it matters it Buffalo. Give the fans a stadium like Seattle with a quasi roof and heated club seats for the swells. Think cities like Piitsburgh, Cleveland, Green Bay have proven that. It has mattered though. The Bills have had that for 15-20 years and still struggle when the weather gets bad. They need the highest amenities associated with the best locations. That is how you maximze revenue. You appeal to as broad an audience that you can that can meet the financial criteria. That is why the floor seats in an NBA arena often include food and/or drinks. You charge $1000 a seat, a game (or more) because of that. In order to reach that broad of an audience a roof will be a necessity. Do you mean people who do not fall down on other people? I've got a good friend still in WNY with prime tix with a few guys, but his wife won't go. She goes to the Sabres games, but wants no part of a Bills game. My wife would be the same way.Pretty much what I am saying. If it was a more comfortable (less crazy) environment your wife would be more likely to go. Now the Bills have potentially sold another to let based solely on the environment. This is a micro example but the type of discussion that is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Jasper , IMHO, that MetroRail just will not be able to handle any reasonable amount of game day attendance. I think you all are overestimating the appetite for people to hang around after a game. I know Buffalo is having a nice comeback, but to think people are going to come down early on a train or bus, spend $40 bucks on pre game food and drink, spend $100 on tickets at minimum, spend $30 inside, then come back out and spend $40 again eating and drinking just not realistic for the majority of fans. Is there a subset of fans, mostly in 20-30s that will yes. But not enough that would spread 10000 people out over two hours. That has been my experience in other cities like Pittsburgh and New Orleans that have downtown stadiums. Christ, in New Orleans a block away from the atrium we sat right down at a half empty bar 20 minutes after the game. And I am missing the hotel thing as I mentioned. I stayed downtown for 3 games this year, and it was a scramble to get rooms , and I reserved two of them day schedule came out. I know the new Marriot is going up , but as I said with Hockey tourneys and such, demand for rooms be even greater, but just on weekends. Not sure how that translates to more rooms being sold. Like I said, I want a downtown stadium, I just don't want to see it become a cluster like it did in DC. Parking has to be priority. Mass transit will not be the answer in Buffalo, nor will buses etc. Need parking and plenty of it. We have to do that now, with the traffic situation in Orchard Park. It's either (1) leave early, (2) sit in traffic for 90 minutes, or (3) hang out for 2 hours and then get in the car. Why would it be any worse with stuff to do around the stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerbroker Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/can-downtown-handle-60000-fans-20150123 Up to 20,000 by Metro Rail according to the consultant? My fear is parking, espcially that controlled by the Bills. is going to so expensive that only club level and suite owners will be able to park within a reasonble walk. How many of the regional fans want to drive an hour plus only to park at some remote lot and then be hearded into some cattle car and fight ever longer lines on the way out. Contrary to some comments the purpose of tailgaiting is not to get drunk before the game but is to mitigate the cost and committment of attending a game. With the current liquor laws how much business would bars and restaurants do for a Sunday 1PM game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/can-downtown-handle-60000-fans-20150123 Up to 20,000 by Metro Rail according to the consultant? My fear is parking, espcially that controlled by the Bills. is going to so expensive that only club level and suite owners will be able to park within a reasonble walk. How many of the regional fans want to drive an hour plus only to park at some remote lot and then be hearded into some cattle car and fight ever longer lines on the way out. Contrary to some comments the purpose of tailgaiting is not to get drunk before the game but is to mitigate the cost and committment of attending a game. With the current liquor laws how much business would bars and restaurants do for a Sunday 1PM game? I think that this kind of sums up my point. The Bills are going to try to dip into that "true cost of ownership" and gain a higher %. Let's say that you spend $75 a ticket, $15 in concessions, $20 to park and $30 on your tailgate. That actual cost for you to attend a game is $140. The Bills may only be seeing $90 of that. Part of the goal of the new stadium will be to capitalize on some of that other $50 in this case. In terms of the liquor laws the state will be thrilled to make that concession. It is basically a "give" to the Bills that doesn't cost them a dime (in fact it puts tax $ in their pockets). Those rules will not be a roadblock at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Why do people keep talking about a smaller 60k seat stadium? The bills have less trouble selling out games than other teams with smaller stadiums. When this team is good, it can sell out a huge stadium. We are not the jaguars or the raiders who tarp off entire sections of the upper deck in order to 'fill' the stadiums. I understand that we need luxury boxes but don't sacrifice the atmosphere/home field advantage because buffalo is a small city. Build a 100k seat stadium with all the boxes you want, we will come. because the Bills have some of the cheapest tickets in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) We have to do that now, with the traffic situation in Orchard Park. It's either (1) leave early, (2) sit in traffic for 90 minutes, or (3) hang out for 2 hours and then get in the car. Why would it be any worse with stuff to do around the stadium? I dont think it would..i think it would be the same. But a lot of folks, like myself, prefer to be outside cooking my own food, drinking my own beer. I guess my point was to expect people to go to bars/restuarants pre game, spend money in the stadium, and then go back the bars post game is not realistic for transportation planning. With the current liquor laws how much business would bars and restaurants do for a Sunday 1PM game? Holy chite... i never even thought about that...what a critical point! Guess with the amount of money they would spend on the stadium, those laws would get changed...but as of now downtown stadium based on people going to bars /restaurants before a game is non starter. Edited January 27, 2015 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Holy chite... i never even thought about that...what a critical point! Guess with the amount of money they would spend on the stadium, those laws would get changed...but as of now downtown stadium based on people going to bars /restaurants before a game is non starter. The state will bend on this immediately. They will love to make concessions that don't cost them anything!! If they have the option to fork over $ or give the Bills the opportunity to earn extra cash they will go that route 100 times out of 100. Teams ask for stuff like that all the time and pretty much get it every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The state will bend on this immediately. They will love to make concessions that don't cost them anything!! If they have the option to fork over $ or give the Bills the opportunity to earn extra cash they will go that route 100 times out of 100. Teams ask for stuff like that all the time and pretty much get it every time. I agree Kirby...but i never even thought of that consideration. Just shocked there was an angle that involved tipping a few and i was not even considering it...my game is slipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I agree Kirby...but i never even thought of that consideration. Just shocked there was an angle that involved tipping a few and i was not even considering it...my game is slipping As it stands now, what do the current laws allow/prohibit? I assume bars can't serve alcohol before.... when? Noon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I agree Kirby...but i never even thought of that consideration. Just shocked there was an angle that involved tipping a few and i was not even considering it...my game is slipping Your game is never slipping!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) As it stands now, what do the current laws allow/prohibit? I assume bars can't serve alcohol before.... when? Noon? Thats it exactly. Bills tried to get it changed last year to 11 in an effort to get folks in the stadium earlier, no go by the state. You can buy alcohol at 9 am i think in a store, but not before noon in a bar or restaurant i guess. Like Kirby said, would be changed immediately i am sure. Your game is never slipping!! you are too kind to an old man! Edited January 27, 2015 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 you are too kind to an old man! I call them like I see them. You consistently contribute good stuff. Keep it coming!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I dont think it would..i think it would be the same. But a lot of folks, like myself, prefer to be outside cooking my own food, drinking my own beer. I guess my point was to expect people to go to bars/restuarants pre game, spend money in the stadium, and then go back the bars post game is not realistic for transportation planning. It's exactly what tons of people do before and after Sabres games to avoid traffic and/or crowded trains. It really isn't unrealistic. Some will continue to tailgate, some will go to restaurants, and some will go straight home. The point about the liquor law is more important. I think that the state would grant Erie the same exemptions that it grants certain counties downstate. http://www.sla.ny.gov/provisions-for-county-closing-hours Notice which counties are missing: Bronx, Kings, New York, Richmond, and Queens. The usual favorable treatment for NYC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebyrdman31 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 My favorite plan that I have seen so far, makes the most sense, stadium built in perry projects, extension of light rail, and expansion of cobblestone district. thoughts? http://twointhebox.com/2014/08/08/the-2itb-plan-for-a-bills-stadium/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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