Are the Pegulas in Over Their Heads?

[thebandit27]

Doc, not true. HC is intamitely involved with all parts of the game. That's why he's the head coach. It's captain obvious stuff. Just plain wrong. And, once again as you seemed to miss it, what he did offensively with what he had to work with was actually remarkablle.

 

Again just repeat: Head coach=9-7 and trending upwards.

6 games with one (or fewer) offensive TDs is remarkable?

 

No.

 

EDIT: forgot about the 2nd Miami game, which makes it 7 actually

[Doc]

Marrone was responsible for getting the players on defense these past 2 years and calling the plays. While the problems on offense were all due to everyone else. Sounds logical.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I'll credit Marrone for instiling toughness and resiliency; for me, that's where his great work ends and Schwartz's begins.

 

 

I would argue that a great deal of the "toughness and resiliency" was supplied by Spikes, Dixon, Graham, Bradham, Searcy, Hughes, the Williams quadruplets, etc. many of whom were new and all of whom were tough and resilient to begin with.

[stony]

Doc, what about the term "Head Coach". Don't you get? These were his defense and ST. Yes, his forte is offense. He was stuck with Orton. EJ wasn't ready and if he was the QB we would have been out of the hunt by November. Given what he had to work with, he actually performed a near miracle with it by getting close to the playoffs.

 

This is the mantra: Head Coach = 9-7, best record in a decade and trending upward. Keep saying that to yourself.

 

The only credit I'll give Marrone is that he stayed out of the way of Schwartz. Funny how everything else he touched turned to sh.

 

And Marrone didn't "build" that defense like you said. Whaley constucted it, Marrone simply inherited it.

[GG]

 

 

What I want(ed) was for the Pegulas to hire a consultant on the day the purchase was official-

The problem with this scenario is that anyone who is competent already had a job in October 2014.

 

It made sense for Pegula to lean heavily on Brandon during the transition, especially when the team was in playoff contention.

 

As discussed in the Pegula's competent thread, plan A got blown up. Plan B is now in place which is to keep Whaley and Brandon for another year.

[mannc]

Because it's going to keep guys like Marrone, the most important single person on this playoff chase, paranoid and covering his own ass and not spending 100% of his time on the upcoming game.

Look, I don't know exactly what a football czar (hate that term) would have been doing immediately after TP took over, but the speculative possibility that it could be a distraction is not a valid reason to do nothing until the end of the season, when things start to happen very quickly and unpredictably, as we have seen. When a new owner comes on board, everyone is already uneasy and probably in CYA mode. I would guess that everyone knew they were operating under heightened scrutiny anyway. As it has played out, the Pegulas appear to have been caught by surprise and now have no strong, trusted football man in charge of the operation. I say this because it appears that Whaley's position has been seriously undermined by the Polian flirtation and the announcement that the new HC will report to TP.

[Mojo44]

Doc, why does a head coach have to publicly state the obvious. By definition the HC is responsible for the entire product on the field..and the won-loss record. To state this publicly would be the same as calling a pressed to state that his hair is actually brown. This is still captain obvious stuff. Come on already.

 

Absolutely yes, BTW, given what he had to work with the offense probably over performed. He did this in only two years! With a QB and a better O line the O would be fine.

 

Head Coach=responsibility for the product on the field=9-7 and trending up.

[mannc]

The problem with this scenario is that anyone who is competent already had a job in October 2014.

 

It made sense for Pegula to lean heavily on Brandon during the transition, especially when the team was in playoff contention.

 

As discussed in the Pegula's competent thread, plan A got blown up. Plan B is now in place which is to keep Whaley and Brandon for another year.

You don't know that all competent consultants were unavailable. Plan A should never have seen the light of day unless and until it was a done deal. As it was, it was embarrassing for the organization, and seriously undermined Whaley at the very worst moment.

[Storm Front]

If people start bashing the Pegulas it will confirm my belief that Bills fans are the most worthless losers.

[Kelly the Dog]

Look, I don't know exactly what a football czar (hate that term) would have been doing immediately after TP took over, but the speculative possibility that it could be a distraction is not a valid reason to do nothing until the end of the season, when things start to happen very quickly and unpredictably, as we have seen. When a new owner comes on board, everyone is already uneasy and probably in CYA mode. I would guess that everyone knew they were operating under heightened scrutiny anyway. As it has played out, the Pegulas appear to have been caught by surprise and now have no strong, trusted football man in charge of the operation. I say this because it appears that Whaley's position has been seriously undermined by the Polian flirtation and the announcement that the new HC will report to TP.

 

 

We don't know the answers to too many questions to do anything other than guess and give total conjecture to these things. You may be right. I don't agree.

 

I think...

 

1] Bringing in Polian, which is who they wanted, would have been impossible during the season. He was working with ESPN and wanted the HOF vote. He wasn't coming earlier. He said himself it wasn't a big job.

 

2] Him or anyone else during the season, doing the things that a person would have to do, which is dig deep and ask nasty questions, and then follow up by saying what those nasty answers were to others in the organization to find out their validity or not, is a HUGE distraction across the board on a team trying for the playoffs, especially in its coaching staff, which includes all of the assistants.

 

3] I don't think Whaley was in trouble at all. I don't think Polian was bringing in AJ Smith. I think Polian was brought in to be a consultant and sounding board and to make recommendations to the Pegulas on everything.

 

4] I think because of the 9-7 record, the Pegulas were very willing to give Marrone one more year. Like a lot of fans were. They may or may not have ordered him to do something with his offensive assistants. I think if they did he quits anyway and they look for a new coach just like they are now.

 

5] I don't know what their plan was for the friction between Whaley and Marrone. I assume they would have sat them down and said this is what we want here, who is in? Here are the parameters of both jobs. Marrone, it was known before the season ended, wanted more power over the roster. That was probably coming to a head. I think the Pegulas, by their actions, would have handled it the way they did. If you want to coach here we want you. If you want more power or your assistants to get more security, then no.

 

6] The contingency plan is exactly what is going on. They like Whaley. He is going to be the GM. Brandon is going to have a reduced role. They will look for another consultant but the usual suspects, Wolf, Arcorsi, Casserly, already have jobs. But it's not essential right now because they are looking for a coach and have a GM to make decisions.

[stony]

 

Doc, why does a head coach have to publicly state the obvious. By definition the HC is responsible for the entire product on the field..and the won-loss record. To state this publicly would be the same as calling a pressed to state that his hair is actually brown. This is still captain obvious stuff. Come on already.

Absolutely yes, BTW, given what he had to work with the offense probably over performed. He did this in only two years! With a QB and a better O line the O would be fine.

Head Coach=responsibility for the product on the field=9-7 and trending up.

Two syllables man. Oak-land.

 

To me, that's his defining legacy.

Edited January 4, 2015 by stony

[Punch]

Which contributing players were added to the defense while Marrone was HC--- Brandon Spikes, Corey Graham, Jerry Hughes, Preston Brown, maybe Nickell Robey? Is that group what made the D a top 5 unit? Even if Marrone were responsible for them solely, that doesn't cut it.

[Mojo44]

Punch, just plain wrong. Head coach = total product on the field = 9-7 record. Cherry picking this player or that player is not a viable argument to this. I'll add this, the head coach is also responsible for the overall team attitude. For the first time in a decade the team believed they were winners and played that way. Credit Marrone! He actually DID change the culture in a positive direction.

[Coach Tuesday]

Punch, just plain wrong. Head coach = total product on the field = 9-7 record. Cherry picking this player or that player is not a viable argument to this. I'll add this, the head coach is also responsible for the overall team attitude. For the first time in a decade the team believed they were winners and played that way. Credit Marrone! He actually DID change the culture in a positive direction.

Take away the player Marrone didn't want to draft and his team goes 6-10 at best.

[Doc]

Doc, why does a head coach have to publicly state the obvious. By definition the HC is responsible for the entire product on the field..and the won-loss record. To state this publicly would be the same as calling a pressed to state that his hair is actually brown. This is still captain obvious stuff. Come on already.

 

Absolutely yes, BTW, given what he had to work with the offense probably over performed. He did this in only two years! With a QB and a better O line the O would be fine.

 

Head Coach=responsibility for the product on the field=9-7 and trending up.

 

Why did Marrone "publicly stated the obvious" and blame himself for the offense? And he doesn't need the one to be stating the obvious (not that I'd believe a word he says). I'd take 1 person, ANYONE within the Bills organization, saying he had anything to do with it. If you can provide me with that, I'll concede. Until that time, what is "obvious" is that an offensive-minded coach focuses on offense and not where he's not experienced. And again, his offense was lousy. So it's "obvious" he had nothing to do with the defense.

[CSBill]

According to this board's favorite </sarcasm> reporter, Jerry Sullivan, they are:

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/jerry-sullivan/pegulas-are-learning-the-hard-way-20150104

 

I just find it hard to believe that two people with the brains and know-how to make billions could be as lost as Jerry would have us believe.

 

Isn't Jerry the same guy whom said they should cut Darius in the off-season. Just saying . . .

[Mojo44]

Hey, Stony. I suggest you get down on your knees and pray like crazy he goes to Oak Land. If he goes to the Jets the Bills will likely pay for it.

Question. What is your take as to why in the entire knowledgable football world outside Marrone is considered a top head coach prospect? BTW, please don't even challenge the accuracy of that statement. If you pay attention to this sport you know it's true. And I don't mean some hack reporter for the NY post. I mean the Polians, Casserlys, Cowers, etc. of this world. Oh yeah, please don't give me the BS that they're old and the game has passed them by. That's truly BS. I'm serious that I would like your opinion on this.

[Coach Tuesday]

Hey, Stony. I suggest you get down on your knees and pray like crazy he goes to Oak Land. If he goes to the Jets the Bills will likely pay for it.

Question. What is your take as to why in the entire knowledgable football world outside Marrone is considered a top head coach prospect? BTW, please don't even challenge the accuracy of that statement. If you pay attention to this sport you know it's true. And I don't mean some hack reporter for the NY post. I mean the Polians, Casserlys, Cowers, etc. of this world. Oh yeah, please don't give me the BS that they're old and the game has passed them by. That's truly BS. I'm serious that I would like your opinion on this.

I'm now 100% convinced that you're related to Doug Marrone. 100%.

[GG]

You don't know that all competent consultants were unavailable. Plan A should never have seen the light of day unless and until it was a done deal. As it was, it was embarrassing for the organization, and seriously undermined Whaley at the very worst moment.

If they are competent, they're either under contract with a team or a national network. Pickings were very slim in October.

 

It's clear that the Polian move backfired. I don't know how much credence I put in the story that Polian got wind of people at OBD badmouthing him, but that could be the reason the whole thing fell apart.

 

So, at this stage I don't think the Bills are in any worse or better position than they were in last week. They still need a franchise QB and they don't have a first round pick.

 

But they still have a solid foundation and will have a new coach who will have a better relationship with the GM.

[Mojo44]

Doc, so be it. Sorry for the cliche but we agree to disagree. BTW the fact that Marrone got no credit in WNY is why this episode is a case of mass hysteria. He deserved the lion's share actually by far. Personallythe burden of "proof" you ask for is part of this group psychotic delusion. Please check out my post above. Why is he seen, rightfully so, as a prime head coaching candidate in the knowledgable football world. Sadly the only place he seems to "suck" is in Bills nation.

 

I do appreciate the discussion. Know this. Clearly I believe Marrone was hung out to dry with no choice for him but to opt out. Clearly I believe this was lunacy and the guy should be praised and extended for what I see as a great job. I'm well aware I'm in the minority. But I'm a Bills fan and will totally support the new regime. My motivation for finally joining the board was that losing Marrone could be the dumbest thing this franchise has ever done.