The Voice of Truth Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Marrone is a good coach. I'm glad he is staying the course. I think we have a good chance of making the playoffs with him. Stop being stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Really? Everything bad was on offense and only Marrone's fault, everything good was on defense and Schwartz's credit? I think Marrone played a role on fourth down calls for sure, but exactly how much did he run the offense vs Hackett? I would appreciate an explanation of your direct knowledge as I have no firm idea. Marrone seems like a guy that lets his people do their jobs. Quarterback audibles and check downs with wide open receivers, Marrone's fault also? Orton deciding in the weeks up to the Denver game he didn't want to give his all to win anymore. I recall you directly posting that Orton wasn't throwing the same as he has in the past, more checkdowns less chances downfield. All Marrone's fault too? Crappy play calling or a bailing, self-protecting quarterback? Or defensive adjustments? The defense had a lousy game against Oakland, especially after Dareus left. Ultimately Marrone's fault right? Just because our offense was ineffective doesn't mean they weren't playing hard. How many serious injuries did we have to our O-lineman? And guard Mike Williams would have reinjured his back regardless of offensive effectiveness. But overall not many, and to me injuries occur there when guys aren't playing hard. If you truly believe that the solid locker room and consistent effort on the field only involved the defense we will have to agree to disagree. To me, it's an important measure of our head coach's effectiveness. In the past, no way we win that last game against the Patriots even against second half scrubs. Credit Marrone and the offense for taking control of the game in the first half when the starters were still in. Do you really believe we should can Marrone, blow up both systems, the locker room, and team morale? Keep that lack of coaching continuity going? This guy had the guts to pull EJ and fight to get Orton brought in, who despite his decision to retire, was arguably the best option available to us this year. Folks like to say Schwartz is getting the most out of his talent, while Marrone isn't. The fact of the matter is that it is not that simple. The defense have a much higher magnitude of talent. This defense is playing like they should have played two years ago. Yet, it all goes to hell with an injury to a major player. If Dareus, a major defensive force, was battling injuries all season like Sammy, a major offensive force, was, is there even a question that the defense would be worse? No. And yet, we'd be sitting here talking about how Schwartz was a downgrade from Pettine yada yada, Marrone got lucky hiring Pettine and sucks yada yada. The defense should be playing at this level. I expected nothing less. The offense I expect better, but it is more understandable. Defense got two established starters, who were both productive at their positions, in FA. The offense got a crappy G and a head case WR coming off an injury and being sold very low. And it's somehow a shock the offense didn't improve like the defense did. Edited December 30, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Defense got two established starters, who were both productive at their positions, in FA. The offense got a crappy G and a head case WR coming off an injury and being sold very low. And it's somehow a shock the offense didn't improve like the defense did. The defense got one part time established starter, one backup cornerback and one backup linebacker. The offense got the best offensive player in the entire draft, counting Odel Beckham, two backup RB with talent, another starting WR, a starting OG, and three OL draft picks, one of which started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The defense got one part time established starter, one backup cornerback and one backup linebacker. The offense got the best offensive player in the entire draft, counting Odel Beckham, two backup RB with talent, another starting WR, a starting OG, and three OL draft picks, one of which started. Spin it hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Spin it hard! Thems just the cold hard facts. The only opinion in that at all, and it was a consensus one at the time, was that Sammy was the best offensive player in the draft. Some will argue now that Beckham or others are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Thems just the cold hard facts. The only opinion in that at all, and it was a consensus one at the time, was that Sammy was the best offensive player in the draft. Some will argue now that Beckham or others are better. I guess if we signed Randy Moss tomorow, you'd call him a starting WR and complain because Marone can't get him 1000 yards and 10 TD's? They may be facts, but they are totally misrepresented. Edited December 31, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Thems just the cold hard facts. The only opinion in that at all, and it was a consensus one at the time, was that Sammy was the best offensive player in the draft. Some will argue now that Beckham or others are better. Fair argument. Sammy played the entire year injured to some extent--I don't think he was ever 100% other than a few snaps before getting injured. Still managed to put up good numbers in a dysfunctional offense. Beckham started the year with a hammy--but seemed to be recovered as the year progressed. Still hard not to like what he did. Then again, he had a two time SB MVP QB throwing to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I guess if we signed Randy Moss tomorow, you'd call him a starting WR and complain because Marone can't get him 1000 yards and 10 TD's? They may be facts, but they are totally misrepresented. How are they misrepresented one bit? All I did was list the players and what they were at the start of the season, with no commentary whatsoever. You didn't even mention the top player the Bills added when you listed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 How are they misrepresented one bit? All I did was list the players and what they were at the start of the season, with no commentary whatsoever. You didn't even mention the top player the Bills added when you listed them. So we trade Hogan to another team, and they can complain that they aren't getting enough out of a starting WR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 So we trade Hogan to another team, and they can complain that they aren't getting enough out of a starting WR? Have zero idea how Hogan got into this discussion. You said, "Defense got two established starters, who were both productive at their positions, in FA. The offense got a crappy G and a head case WR coming off an injury and being sold very low. And it's somehow a shock the offense didn't improve like the defense did." I then listed what really happened with the additions. How could you not include Sammy Freaking Watkins as an addition to the offense? Or the starting OL or the running backs or the starting QB for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Have zero idea how Hogan got into this discussion. You said, "Defense got two established starters, who were both productive at their positions, in FA. The offense got a crappy G and a head case WR coming off an injury and being sold very low. And it's somehow a shock the offense didn't improve like the defense did." I then listed what really happened with the additions. How could you not include Sammy Freaking Watkins as an addition to the offense? Or the starting OL or the running backs or the starting QB for that matter. Because I was talking about free agents. Forgot about Orton and the backup RB's though. Edited December 31, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Because I was talking about free agents. Forgot about Orton and the backup RB's though. The "head case WR coming off an injury" (I assume your talking about Mike Williams) was not a FA, but was acquired in a trade for a 6th round draft choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The "head case WR coming off an injury" (I assume your talking about Mike Williams) was not a FA, but was acquired in a trade for a 6th round draft choice. Trade/FA. Outside of draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 He took a craptastrophic franchise and turned it into a 9-7 team including 4-2 in a division with 2 decent teams. And all with a second rate qb situation. That's worth something. He took a 6-10 team with issues across the d line to a 9-7 team with a healthy d line over 2 years.... It's not THAT big an improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 He took a 6-10 team with issues across the d line to a 9-7 team with a healthy d line over 2 years.... It's not THAT big an improvement It's amazing how every time the Bills change coaches the fans mentally reset this roster as "young and weak". Gailey was fired for not getting the Bills to the playoffs in year 3. That was the expectation THEN. Two years ago. It's not like they went into a rebuild. They have added overall talent each year. This is a veteran team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) It's amazing how every time the Bills change coaches the fans mentally reset this roster as "young and weak". Gailey was fired for not getting the Bills to the playoffs in year 3. That was the expectation THEN. Two years ago. It's not like they went into a rebuild. They have added overall talent each year. This is a veteran team. That was the expectation with a $60 million QB at the helm. Not a project mid first round QB. Didn't we have the worst defense in the NFL in 2012? It was a quick turn around sure, but it's not like Gailey was "close." Edited December 31, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Its only slightly worse than 25-25 harbaugh was 29-21 at Stanford with 1 bowl win. They both took over horrible programs. He isn't a miracle worker, he's a coach. I like college coaches and all but their records don't indicate their success in the NFL because a lot of their job that gets to that record is in recruiting. Once they get to the nfl they lose a lot of that control and it's hard. In college you can inherit a senior QB you didn't recruit and replace with a freshman you did recruit and no one blinks. There aren't contracts to worry about. one guy who doesn't have have that issue is Carroll, who was hired into a dual HC/FO role. Edited December 31, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 It's amazing how every time the Bills change coaches the fans mentally reset this roster as "young and weak". Gailey was fired for not getting the Bills to the playoffs in year 3. That was the expectation THEN. Two years ago. It's not like they went into a rebuild. They have added overall talent each year. This is a veteran team. Veteran team ?Not being snarky please , but what does that mean ? i agree besides Coaching , which was tossed completely , that the roster has been developed with some continuity over the last two or so years. Especially the Defense. The Offense is very young at WR and was for a time at QB. Dont forget it was not that long ago we were doing the 4-3 3-4 4-3 shuffle till Pettine's hybrid. I think the last two years have been the best so far in acquiring players to help the team. Just look at ST improvement in just one year. Thats finding some very specific players. The first i think Bills brought in might have been my beloved Boobie. Focus on the Offense this year. get it right this time ! That was the expectation with a $60 million QB at the helm. Not a project mid first round QB. Didn't we have the worst defense in the NFL in 2012? It was a quick turn around sure, but it's not like Gailey was "close." Wannstadt. The glory years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 That was the expectation with a $60 million QB at the helm. Not a project mid first round QB. Going into year 3 they knew what they had in Fitz. He imploded in the second half of Gailey year 2 after teams began jumping all of his short throws and challenging him to go over the top. That didn't change expectations though. They had a good running game and an OL that didn't give up a lot of sacks and a 1000 yard receiver a solid receiving TE.......if they had an elite QB expectations would have been SB because it was thought that the defense was going to be one of the league's very best with the addition of two pass rushing DE's. The talk was that the Bills had maybe the best DL in football then. Let's not pretend Marrone invented the talent here. He basically hired a good DC and used Jauron-ball offensive tactics to narrowly squeeze out a 9-7 record. If someone would have told me that Gailey year 5 would have ended in 9-7 I would have said whipdeefrickindoo just like everyone else here. Their progress has been tortoise-like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Veteran team ? Not being snarky please , but what does that mean ? i agree besides Coaching , which was tossed completely , that the roster has been developed with some continuity over the last two or so years. Especially the Defense. The Offense is very young at WR and was for a time at QB. Dont forget it was not that long ago we were doing the 4-3 3-4 4-3 shuffle till Pettine's hybrid. I think the last two years have been the best so far in acquiring players to help the team. Just look at ST improvement in just one year. Thats finding some very specific players. The first i think Bills brought in might have been my beloved Boobie. Focus on the Offense this year. get it right this time ! Wannstadt. The glory years. Yeah, veteran team. People think this team is forever young because they don't win. They aren't. They saw age related decline from 3 OL this season. Pears, Wood and Urbik. Mario and KW are 8 years in. Jerry Hughes is at the end of his rookie contract. Chandler is on the backside of his career. Cory Graham and Leodis were the two starting CB's at one point early in the season.....these dudes got years on them. They are an average aged team. They had 3 rookie starters. Not unusual, especially after a draft like last years. They aren't old yet but it is a mischaracterization to say that they are a "young" team. They aren't ever going to get productive 30 year old OL either unless they start getting some athletes to fill those positions. The guys that last in the NFL are the guys who were athletes to start with. A guy like Randall McDaniel can play for 15 years but lumper like Eric Wood has a far shorter shelf life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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