Fixxxer Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 There in lies the rub. It isn't Marrone you are frustrated with it is the last 15 years, 13 of which Marrone had nothing to do with. When did Bills fans become so entitled? Seriously! How can 5-5 be a disappointment for any of you? After the **** show that has been the last 14 years a team that is competitive every single week and at .500 after 11 weeks somehow isn't good enough for you? It is disgusting. The Bills have a horrible o-line, start a bottom of the barrel qb, and have lost their top 2 rbs on what was supposed to be a run dependent team. Go back and look at the preseason threads. People were hoping for 8-8, hoping for it. Now all of a sudden it isn't good enough?!?! Here is what I know. Under Marrone the Bills are competing in every game. Under Marrone the D has been top notch. Under Marrone the Bills haven't dropped a wtf game (Oak-KC, DEN-STL, etc..). Under Marrone you can see the team playing with toughness, they aren't getting beat up every week. I can't believe, after 14 years of terrible football, everyone wants to move on from the first guy who has brought them back to respectability - after less than 2 years!!! Preach on brother. I will also add that the only thing we have to focus going forward with this team is getting better offensively in the redzone, it is crazy thinking going back to square one when we only have to fix one thing to be in the playoffs (I know we can get better at different positions but addressing all weaknesses is utopic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 How about just mis-managing game situations, player personnel decisions, scared coaching. and playing for field goals. Along with having a team who again is going to miss the playoffs. As a general question, how many other games do you watch in a week? Mis-managing game situations is directly correlated to results. Nobody gets mad at a coach for going for it on 4th down if they make it. That Miami game, punting with 10 minutes on the clock, would have been the right decision if the defense forced a 3 and out. The NFL has fans that over react to each game and each week. Talk to your friends that aren't Bills fans. Ask them what they think of the talent on the team. The answer will probably not be "they are stacked, if only they had a better coach" the answer will most likely be along the lines of "Watkins is pretty good and that d-line is scary but I don't know much about the rest of the team." Outside of Bills fans people don't think it is the coach holding them back. In my experience most of them think the team in general is middling (which I agree with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 32nd coach when we have record better than 12 other teams? Okay. Good stuff. Look at the talent on this team, we should be better than what the norm has been the last 14 years. Marrones a pee wee coach with a pee wee offensive coordinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Preach on brother. I will also add that the only thing we have to focus going forward with this team is getting better offensively in the redzone, it is crazy thinking going back to square one when we only have to fix one thing to be in the playoffs (I know we can get better at different positions but addressing all weaknesses is utopic) YES!!!! We are so close and yet some people want to blow it up because it is happening right now. Even though it may be happening right now lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 As a general question, how many other games do you watch in a week? Mis-managing game situations is directly correlated to results. Nobody gets mad at a coach for going for it on 4th down if they make it. That Miami game, punting with 10 minutes on the clock, would have been the right decision if the defense forced a 3 and out. The NFL has fans that over react to each game and each week. Talk to your friends that aren't Bills fans. Ask them what they think of the talent on the team. The answer will probably not be "they are stacked, if only they had a better coach" the answer will most likely be along the lines of "Watkins is pretty good and that d-line is scary but I don't know much about the rest of the team." Outside of Bills fans people don't think it is the coach holding them back. In my experience most of them think the team in general is middling (which I agree with) Actually I live in Georgia so I see a lot of games. A lot of the talk is the team is under performing despite the talent. You say the names Doug Marrone and Nate Hackett and people have very little positives to say about them. YES!!!! We are so close and yet some people want to blow it up because it is happening right now. Even though it may be happening right now lol. What is happening? Serious question. Did you see the stats I posted earlier? They are bottom of the league bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Look at the talent on this team, we should be better than what the norm has been the last 14 years. Marrones a pee wee coach with a pee wee offensive coordinator As has been brought up by Big Cat and I..... We are looking at the talent on this team. Namely Kyle Freaking Orton. His play has been atrocious. Oh look he passed for 300 yards - yeah so did Zach Mettenberger. His play against KC at the end of the game was pathetic. He missed multiple open receivers but I guess that is on the coaches? How about the o-line. Where do they rank again? How about Freddie and CJ? Oh wait we are playing 1 rb who was st ace last year and another who wasn't active half the year. Look at the talent on this team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Look at the talent on this team, we should be better than what the norm has been the last 14 years. Marrones a pee wee coach with a pee wee offensive coordinator Spot analysis, thank you. It's almost like you managed to gloss over the dozens of times in this thread alone that I've countered this claim simply by citing the QB. The QB we have this year is just about as good or bad as all the QB's of the last 15 years, yet our record is poised to be better. So, I guess that kinda contradicts our poitn about coaching and talent, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Philbin, Gruden, Coughlin, Wisenhunt and Pettine, huh? Yeah, no. The question wasn't how many coaches can you name, if that's what you thought. Pettine's not better than Marrone? His TEAM certainly looks better than the Bills at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 As has been brought up by Big Cat and I..... We are looking at the talent on this team. Namely Kyle Freaking Orton. His play has been atrocious. Oh look he passed for 300 yards - yeah so did Zach Mettenberger. His play against KC at the end of the game was pathetic. He missed multiple open receivers but I guess that is on the coaches? How about the o-line. Where do they rank again? How about Freddie and CJ? Oh wait we are playing 1 rb who was st ace last year and another who wasn't active half the year. Look at the talent on this team! Cut everyone on this talentless team and let Marrone and Hackett build the team they want it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 What is happening? Serious question. Did you see the stats I posted earlier? They are bottom of the league bad. And nobody is disputing that. What we ARE disputing is whether it's the coach or the not-even-top-20 QB we have who's to blame. Pettine's not better than Marrone? His TEAM certainly looks better than the Bills at the moment. They should have lost to the hapless Falcons yesterday. Mike Smith practically ran the ball into the Atlanta endzone on Cleveland's behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 <snip> Here is what I know. Under Marrone the Bills are competing in every game. Under Marrone the D has been top notch. Under Marrone the Bills haven't dropped a wtf game (Oak-KC, DEN-STL, etc..). Under Marrone you can see the team playing with toughness, they aren't getting beat up every week. I can't believe, after 14 years of terrible football, everyone wants to move on from the first guy who has brought them back to respectability - after less than 2 years!!! You won the internet today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Cut everyone on this talentless team and let Marrone and Hackett build the team they want it!!! Well, at least you didn't stray from the "fire-everyone" solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 How about them? I'm curious as to which game situations--specifically--that you're referring to. You didn't ask me, but if you did I would say the 2nd to last drive of the Cheaps game. Leodis returns punt to 25 yard line. First play is a 9 yard completion to Woods followed by 2 runs and a first on the 15. You've already told us many times that Kyle is more of the problem than Marrone and Hackett. So what do we do? We throw 4 passes into the EZ. Several of them were low percentage requiring a perfect pass to complete. This after Kyle had already missed at least 3 passes to the EZ. He didn't have it. A good coach would take that into consideration in his play calling along with the run game had been working. We had plenty of time. We could/should have gone for the first down first. Or a drive a in the 3rd quarter when we put together a drive running the ball down their throat and get to 2nd and 2 from the 3 and pass twice in a row. If the thinking was really was we wanted to try fast in case we didn't get it we would still have time, that is also troubling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 And nobody is disputing that. What we ARE disputing is whether it's the coach or the not-even-top-20 QB we have who's to blame. They should have lost to the hapless Falcons yesterday. Mike Smith practically ran the ball into the Atlanta endzone on Cleveland's behalf. And we "should have lost" to the hapless Vikings a few weeks back. Woulda coulda shoulda. They're in the catbird seat to win their division while the bills are YET AGAIN 3rd or worse. Marrone's bad. Hackett's worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Actually I live in Georgia so I see a lot of games. A lot of the talk is the team is under performing despite the talent. You say the names Doug Marrone and Nate Hackett and people have very little positives to say about them. What is happening? Serious question. Did you see the stats I posted earlier? They are bottom of the league bad. I'm not sure what you living in GA has to do with watching a lot of games but no worries if you watch other games great I will take that at face value. My experience living in CNY is completely different in regards to the perceived talent on this team. This is coming from a lot of non Bills fans forced to watch Bills games as they are the 1 o'clock game. I have addressed the talent gaps many times in this thread and just did so a minute ago. I did see the stats. I think they are directly related to the rb, oline, and qb talent being bottom of the league bad. Do you care to state that Bryce and Boobie are a top of the league tandem? Perhaps that Urbik and Pears are top of the league Guards? Or the Kyle Orton is anything but bottom of the league QB? The all 22s routinely show plays that are left on the field by Orton. Is that the coaches or players? What about all of the missed opportunities in the final KC drive? Is that the coaches or players? If the Bills win that game and are 6-4 does that magically make Marrone a better coach? If the PI that should have been called in the Texans game leads to a win does that make Marrone a better coach? Is Tom Coughlin a bad coach bc his team is 3-8? Is Jason Garrett all of a sudden a good coach because the Cowboys are finally playing well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You didn't ask me, but if you did I would say the 2nd to last drive of the Cheaps game. Leodis returns punt to 25 yard line. First play is a 9 yard completion to Woods followed by 2 runs and a first on the 15. You've already told us many times that Kyle is more of the problem than Marrone and Hackett. So what do we do? We throw 4 passes into the EZ. Several of them were low percentage requiring a perfect pass to complete. This after Kyle had already missed at least 3 passes to the EZ. He didn't have it. A good coach would take that into consideration in his play calling along with the run game had been working. We had plenty of time. We could/should have gone for the first down first. Or a drive a in the 3rd quarter when we put together a drive running the ball down their throat and get to 2nd and 2 from the 3 and pass twice in a row. If the thinking was really was we wanted to try fast in case we didn't get it we would still have time, that is also troubling. Well, to be clear, I said Orton was the problem because of what he did with those four throws, not having anything to do with the game leading up to it. And again, there was a receiver running wide open into the endzone. How big of an ask is it to have a nine year veteran hit him from 15 yards out? I'm sorry, isn't one of the ongoing critiques how they coach not to lose? And we "should have lost" to the hapless Vikings a few weeks back. Woulda coulda shoulda. They're in the catbird seat to win their division while the bills are YET AGAIN 3rd or worse. Marrone's bad. Hackett's worse. Well, they're not, actually. Would you like to wager that the Browns will win the North this year? In fact, if Baltimore wins tonight, Cleveland's in fourth place in the division....where they started the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Who the hell is worshipping him? You're making up stuff. He took a ton of scrubs and made them productive players. We had a #4 overall pick, a 1st round QB, multiple high pick olinemen, 2nd and 3rd round wrs and our offense is worse. But keep making excuses. We're lucky to have such a special and innovative coach like Marrone. He's not a dime a dozen coach at all. Just save your blood pressure. It's not worth arguing with him. He's right. Everyone he's arguing with is wrong. I've learned by now. He's just THAT guy. Marrone is a good coach. It's the players fault that we lose every game we lose. You don't understand by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I don't like Coach Marrone because he has a bad football philosophy for getting Buffalo over the hump. I've heard him say it several times. He wants to play good D, good kicking teams, kick FGs and have the D keep us in games. He wants the offense to s core 21 points. The problem with this is they will be close games. As any Bills fan should know, in close games we often get mysterious late game flags like in the Fish game for example. This is a given. If you're playing close games you leave yourself no margin for error. Also if a player makes a mistake like Bryce on the 1 vs the Cheaps, it blows the whole thing. Really? He said that the plan going in is to kick FGs and score only 21 points? I don't think he ever said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 For those who think Marrone is a good coach and deserves another year all i say is this is a results league either you win or you are out.Conservative coaching is coaching games not to lose, i want a coach who plays to win.At least Chan got the best out of very little talent they had on offence, his problem was having a dummy as DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Really? He said that the plan going in is to kick FGs and score only 21 points? I don't think he ever said that. In one of the press conferences last week he said that he needs the offense to do better. Score 21 points and win with D and FGs. He said it. I'm not going to look it up, but I heard him say that. I also heard him say after the first Fish game that his strategy is to play good D and maybe get a kicking teams score and kick FGs. I've heard him espouse this theory twice. And again, there was a receiver running wide open into the endzone. How big of an ask is it to have a nine year veteran hit him from 15 yards out? I'm sorry, isn't one of the ongoing critiques how they coach not to lose? My critique of him is not coaching not to lose, but just you know, losing. I have been watching to see what other teams do when they get in the red area and I have not seen one team throw 4 straight passes into the EZ. Most try to get closer first. I agree that Kyle made some bad throws. But Hackett knew that too. He should have coached around it by running and short passes to get close and then running one of those tricky TE passes to get in like the one to Lee Smith or Gragg that had worked earlier in the year. The problem is Kyle AND Hackett AND the rest of the team for that matter. It's not either/or. why does it have to be coaching OR players? Can it not be both? A coach has to know his players limitations and strengths and devise his game plan based on that. Not on what a generic NFL caliber QB should be able to do. Edited November 24, 2014 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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