Houston Texans Game - EJ Manuel

[Hot Buffalo Wings]

So, I re-watched the Bills Texans game last night because I wanted to re-evaluate my opinions of EJ Manuel earlier this season. A couple things I noticed watching that game without the overwhelming emotions that come with watching the games live are:

• The OL played AWFUL and it showed. We could not establish a running game. EJ was under pressure all game and I really think the play calling was bland.
  

• EJ's pick 6 to JJ Watt is more credit to Watt being a freak than anything. Andrew Luck did the same EXACT thing the week after, however, Watt bobbled it a little too much to get a clean pick to run with it.
  

• When CJ Spiller uses his first instinct to cut up field it usually works well/ok for us. Too many times we see him trying to bounce it out just oooone more time for that BIG play and it results in a loss of yards. That is lack of discipline.
  

• Fitzy played one of his better games against us. He used that magic we all know he is capable of using once in a while.
  

• Our defense dominated except for Corey Graham who gave up a late first half TD (the only TD our defense allowed) to Hopkins to make it 10-7 going into halftime. It looked like Graham fell asleep on that play.
  

I guess what I am trying to conclude here is that I think it's surprising how many people have already chalked EJ up as a bust. I see a lot of potential. His biggest problem right now is accuracy/timing. I'm no QB coach but I have to think that is something that can be improved over time (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't feel any desire to throw EJ back into this mess anytime soon. I think Marrone has made the right decision and EJ will benefit from taking a back seat. It is VERY difficult to find a franchise QB in this league, just look at 80% of the teams in the NFL. I billieve that we just might have something in EJ.

1. We need a BIG upgrade @ OL (free agency or draft or both?)
    
   
2. We need a desperate upgrade @ OC...
    
   
3. We could use a stud CB...
    
   
4. I'm ok with Marrone and Whaley sticking around. Not a fan of the revolving door.
    
   
5. Can't wait for Kiko to be playing again.
   

 

Also, if you haven't noticed. EJ loves Buffalo.

 

As Always, Go Bills.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Hot Buffalo Wings

[Doc]

I didn't see the game, but heard there were several big dropped passes.

[section122]

1. We need a BIG upgrade @ OL (free agency or draft or both?)
    
   
2. We need a desperate upgrade @ OC...
    
   
3. We could use a stud CB...
    
   
4. I'm ok with Marrone and Whaley sticking around. Not a fan of the revolving door.
    
   
5. Can't wait for Kiko to be playing again.
   

As Always, Go Bills.

 

I agree with all of this. I also want to add that if PI was called on the last int by Manuel as it should have he may very well have a different narrative to his season. I said as much then but it boggles my mind that blown call by the refs (on "their point of emphasis" no less) effectively ended his season. It also doesn't surprise me that Fitz played well. I caught his pregame speech and the emotion was raw. He said something along the lines of "I know I don't say much but this game means a lot to me, it means a lot to me" and I'll bet it did. He was written off here and Nix trashed him (not on purpose) publicly.

[Maury Ballstein]

Free Ej ! Fire maroon.

[26CornerBlitz]

I didn't see the game, but heard there were several big dropped passes.

 

Early in the game, the Bills WRs had the drops.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I agree with all of this. I also want to add that if PI was called on the last int by Manuel as it should have he may very well have a different narrative to his season. I said as much then but it boggles my mind that blown call by the refs (on "their point of emphasis" no less) effectively ended his season. It also doesn't surprise me that Fitz played well. I caught his pregame speech and the emotion was raw. He said something along the lines of "I know I don't say much but this game means a lot to me, it means a lot to me" and I'll bet it did. He was written off here and Nix trashed him (not on purpose) publicly.

 

no way that call ended our season but im surprised that it wasnt called. i get that down the stretch you often let them play a little extra, but if i recall it was pretty blatant and did clearly effect the route.

[Doc]

Early in the game, the Bills WRs had the drops.

Thanks.

[section122]

no way that call ended our season but im surprised that it wasnt called. i get that down the stretch you often let them play a little extra, but if i recall it was pretty blatant and did clearly effect the route.

No not our season (I still think the Bills have a shot ). Manuels season was ended by that play.

Edited November 19, 2014 by section122

[FireChan]

I can't believe some are chalking EJ up as a bust, I mean the only issue he has as the guy who needs to pass the football is his ability to pass the football.

Edited November 19, 2014 by FireChan

[Hot Buffalo Wings]

I agree with all of this. I also want to add that if PI was called on the last int by Manuel as it should have he may very well have a different narrative to his season. I said as much then but it boggles my mind that blown call by the refs (on "their point of emphasis" no less) effectively ended his season. It also doesn't surprise me that Fitz played well. I caught his pregame speech and the emotion was raw. He said something along the lines of "I know I don't say much but this game means a lot to me, it means a lot to me" and I'll bet it did. He was written off here and Nix trashed him (not on purpose) publicly.

I agree, that was PI on Robert Woods. I think EJ is very capable of running the 2 minute drill. With that being said, I also think it was a blessing in disguise. EJ needs to learn from the bench like other great QBs have in the past.

[NoSaint]

 

No not our season (I still think the Bills have a shot ). Manuels season was ended by that play.

 

ahhh - i gotcha. yea, i mean, that might have been his last legit shot too. Which would in its own way be a shame. the guys longest run as a starter was 5 games.

[26CornerBlitz]

ahhh - i gotcha. yea, i mean, that might have been his last legit shot too. Which would in its own way be a shame. the guys longest run as a starter was 5 games.

 

If Whaley stays, it won't be.

[section122]

I can't believe some are chalking EJ up as a bust, I meant the only issue he has as the guy who needs to pass the football is his ability to pass the football.

 

Imagine that you showed up....

 

I agree, that was PI on Robert Woods. I think EJ is very capable of running the 2 minute drill. With that being said, I also think it was a blessing in disguise. EJ needs to learn from the bench like other great QBs have in the past.

I don't know. I have no idea if he would be better served learning hands on or hands off. I personally learn by doing so sitting wouldn't be beneficial to me. Who knows for EJ. I also stand by my idea that not a single win of Orton's couldn't have been won by Manuel. He won 2 games by leading the team to 17 points and a third by being gifted 6 turnovers. The Bills are winning in spite of him and that could definitely be done imo by Manuel.

[Security]

This was a blown game, a big time blown game, the same typ of blown win the Bills should have had with Tuel at QB against KC last year, and against KC this year with Orton.

 

This was on the road though.

 

Not sure EJ completely deserved to be benched.

 

We can now tell how horrid this staff is at calling plays no matter who is at QB.

[section122]

ahhh - i gotcha. yea, i mean, that might have been his last legit shot too. Which would in its own way be a shame. the guys longest run as a starter was 5 games.

I really hope it isn't. I mean I am holding onto some memories but he runs the 2 minute drill incredibly well, and I just keep flashing back to that NE game last year. He played great as a rookie making his first start with little tc and had the team in position to win. Then he followed that up with the Carolina drive and I became optimistic that he could succeed. Add in the fact that he is so ridiculously easy to root for (says and does all the right things) and I would love to see him succeed.

 

This is a tough situation for him to be in though as the fans have zero patience for anything after 14 years. Growing pains are looked at disapprovingly. Look at Tannehil in Miami. He struggled greatly in his first 2 seasons and is now showing signs of being a productive qb. Bills fans would have tried to run him out of town long before the middle of his 3rd season.

[NoSaint]

I don't know. I have no idea if he would be better served learning hands on or hands off. I personally learn by doing so sitting wouldn't be beneficial to me. Who knows for EJ. I also stand by my idea that not a single win of Orton's couldn't have been won by Manuel. He won 2 games by leading the team to 17 points and a third by being gifted 6 turnovers. The Bills are winning in spite of him and that could definitely be done imo by Manuel.

 

in fact we have probably accomplished that several times.

 

ill admit i was anti-benching him that early. but as you say, i dont know the guy, or the inner workings of the team - so its all speculation. I just think that if we are going to take him in the first, and push the chips in for him with Sammy (still valuable even if ej flops but...) you give him more than 5 games to work through stuff. especially given the choppy season last year was. KO gave me some hope, but eventually you have to think hes probably going to play like KO. and he has evened out to that.

Edited November 19, 2014 by NoSaint

[Not at the table Karlos]

 

 

Early in the game, the Bills WRs had the drops.

they definitely did. Ejs passes weren't the best on a couple but if you can get a hand on it you can catch it.

[section122]

in fact we have probably accomplished that several times.

 

ill admit i was anti-benching him that early. but as you say, i dont know the guy, or the inner workings of the team - so its all speculation. I just think that if we are going to take him in the first, and push the chips in for him with Sammy (still valuable even if ej flops but...) you give him more than 5 games to work through stuff. especially given the choppy season last year was.

 

My feelings exactly. It also pushes the time table for knowing what we have with him back which is my biggest gripe about the move. If he stunk bad this year ala Geno we would know that and could make plans for next year. As it stands now we don't know what we have and won't find out which may push the drought longer. We know what Orton is and I am on record as saying that I don't think he is very good. As for the inner workings I agree, there may have been some locker room issues brewing that we as fans aren't privy to that may have forced Marrone's hand. Listening to the quotes after the benching that may be it.

 

Speaking of the quotes.....

 

It seems that many of the wrs were happy that the move was made. You know who never did come out and say he liked the move was Mike Williams. It seems he was a receiver with a good rapport with EJ. The whole throw it up in the clouds thing and I think he may have been unhappy with the move. I also think that may have something to do with his inactive status which started after the switch.

[26CornerBlitz]

Speaking of the quotes.....

 

It seems that many of the wrs were happy that the move was made. You know who never did come out and say he liked the move was Mike Williams. It seems he was a receiver with a good rapport with EJ. The whole throw it up in the clouds thing and I think he may have been unhappy with the move. I also think that may have something to do with his inactive status which started after the switch.

 

Good observation. Caveman has virtually disappeared from the offense since the QB switch.

[NoSaint]

 

 

It also pushes the time table for knowing what we have with him back which is my biggest gripe about the move. If he stunk bad this year ala Geno we would know that and could make plans for next year. As it stands now we don't know what we have and won't find out which may push the drought longer.

 

.....

 

It seems that many of the wrs were happy that the move was made. You know who never did come out and say he liked the move was Mike Williams. It seems he was a receiver with a good rapport with EJ. The whole throw it up in the clouds thing and I think he may have been unhappy with the move. I also think that may have something to do with his inactive status which started after the switch.

 

if i was doing a longer post the first section certainly was part of my feeling. i thought it was early to declare him dead, and if we arent declaring that it would be nice to get some more time to figure out what we have. but i suppose the coaches are still working with him behind closed doors. i think you and i are very much the same on how we approached the situation here.

 

 

with regards to the quotes/locker room/MW -- i dont know what to make of a lot of the personnel stuff this season.

[filthymcnasty08]

Again….with regard to EJ….his teammates played a role in the deciding factor…. So conveniently forgotten inside all of the finger pointing that is going on.

 

If they stood up for him, Maroon backs off.

 

His WRs stopped playing for him for fear of getting decapitated by a Safety while laying out for one of his absolute sh-t passes.

 

get over it people….really.

[section122]

Again….with regard to EJ….his teammates played a role in the deciding factor…. So conveniently forgotten inside all of the finger pointing that is going on.

 

If they stood up for him, Maroon backs off.

 

His WRs stopped playing for him for fear of getting decapitated by a Safety while laying out for one of his absolute sh-t passes.

 

get over it people….really.

way too harsh for the tenor of this conversation imo. Who exactly is pointing fingers in this thread?

[Hot Buffalo Wings]

My feelings exactly. It also pushes the time table for knowing what we have with him back which is my biggest gripe about the move. If he stunk bad this year ala Geno we would know that and could make plans for next year. As it stands now we don't know what we have and won't find out which may push the drought longer. We know what Orton is and I am on record as saying that I don't think he is very good. As for the inner workings I agree, there may have been some locker room issues brewing that we as fans aren't privy to that may have forced Marrone's hand. Listening to the quotes after the benching that may be it.

 

I understand what you're getting at but I think that is just something we have to live with for now. I believe EJ's career could be ruined if we force it too quickly. If they are patient with him, he could be successful. It's too early to tell. I'm certain he is learning a ton from Orton during practices and on the sidelines.

 

I'm a patient EJ fan, he does and says all the right things (as someone noted). I also think he is smart. He needs to get more competitive...get angry and gain more points in the leadership category.

 

Remember, this kid knows there is a lot of money on the line (He hangs with Kaepernick in the offseason). I think hes up for the task.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Hot Buffalo Wings

[ricojes]

I still believe EJ could be a good QB. The problem is, do the Bills give him another chance to start? Or will he be a backup with the only chance to prove himself after and injury? It's a tough call, unless they see a big change in him next season, I don't know if he gets another shot. Not saying he should or shouldn't, I just don't know what they will do, which is pretty much par for the course when it comes to this team.

 

Another thing...This season, along with the accuracy issues, it seems as though his throws were no where near spirals. heck, some looked end over end! Not that you need a perfect spiral to be good, but it seems like the elite QB's all throw a tight spiral for the most part. Can anyone compare some of his throws from last season to this season to see if there is that big of a change? It seemed worse than last season, it may have been the same, I just don't remember.

[section122]

I understand what you're getting at but I think that is just something we have to live with for now. I believe EJ's career could be ruined if we force it too quickly. If they are patient with him, he could be successful. It's too early to tell. I'm certain he is learning a ton from Orton during practices and on the sidelines.

 

I'm a patient EJ fan, he does and says all the right things (as someone noted). I also think he is smart. He needs to get more competitive...get angry and gain more points in the leadership category.

 

Remember, this kid knows there is a lot of money on the line (He hangs with Kaepernick). I think hes up for the task.

 

I agree and have no idea on the inner workings so I am just speculating. Some people learn better by sitting and watching, and it seems from his quotes at least that EJ is learning how to be a professional from Orton. Some people learn better by doing. I have no idea which EJ is and agree he needs to get angry and fire up the competitiveness. The article about him screaming and people being taken aback (prior to Chi I believe) gave me hope that it is in there somewhere.

 

I still believe EJ could be a good QB. The problem is, do the Bills give him another chance to start? Or will he be a backup with the only chance to prove himself after and injury? It's a tough call, unless they see a big change in him next season, I don't know if he gets another shot. Not saying he should or shouldn't, I just don't know what they will do, which is pretty much par for the course when it comes to this team.

 

Another thing...This season, along with the accuracy issues, it seems as though his throws were no where near spirals. heck, some looked end over end! Not that you need a perfect spiral to be good, but it seems like the elite QB's all throw a tight spiral for the most part. Can anyone compare some of his throws from last season to this season to see if there is that big of a change? It seemed worse than last season, it may have been the same, I just don't remember.

I agree that he threw some ugly balls. I disagree about elite qbs throwing tight spirals though. Peyton throws wounded ducks all over the field and Rivers has quite possibly the ugliest throwing motion I have ever seen.

 

As for Ejs chance he is now in a show me situation. I'm sure he will get the chance in tc to shine as well as preseason games. There will be no allowance for stinkers though imo. Either he will succeed in the games or not see the field again next year. I think if Orton plays well down the stretch he will opt out and try to force the Bills hand to make a decision on him as well. This is going to be a difficult offseason for Whaley in regards to the qb situation.

[Hot Buffalo Wings]

I still believe EJ could be a good QB. The problem is, do the Bills give him another chance to start? Or will he be a backup with the only chance to prove himself after and injury? It's a tough call, unless they see a big change in him next season, I don't know if he gets another shot. Not saying he should or shouldn't, I just don't know what they will do, which is pretty much par for the course when it comes to this team.

 

Another thing...This season, along with the accuracy issues, it seems as though his throws were no where near spirals. heck, some looked end over end! Not that you need a perfect spiral to be good, but it seems like the elite QB's all throw a tight spiral for the most part. Can anyone compare some of his throws from last season to this season to see if there is that big of a change? It seemed worse than last season, it may have been the same, I just don't remember.

Spirals or not he puts most deep balls on the money (It must've been week 2 where he put a tight ball right in Sammy's mitts deep but Sammy failed to bring it in on the goal line).

 

What he needs to work on is hitting his targets on cross routes, leading the receivers. He also throws the ball too low sometimes if I'm remembering correctly.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Hot Buffalo Wings

[ricojes]

I agree and have no idea on the inner workings so I am just speculating. Some people learn better by sitting and watching, and it seems from his quotes at least that EJ is learning how to be a professional from Orton. Some people learn better by doing. I have no idea which EJ is and agree he needs to get angry and fire up the competitiveness. The article about him screaming and people being taken aback (prior to Chi I believe) gave me hope that it is in there somewhere.

 

 

I agree that he threw some ugly balls. I disagree about elite qbs throwing tight spirals though. Peyton throws wounded ducks all over the field and Rivers has quite possibly the ugliest throwing motion I have ever seen.

 

As for Ejs chance he is now in a show me situation. I'm sure he will get the chance in tc to shine as well as preseason games. There will be no allowance for stinkers though imo. Either he will succeed in the games or not see the field again next year. I think if Orton plays well down the stretch he will opt out and try to force the Bills hand to make a decision on him as well. This is going to be a difficult offseason for Whaley in regards to the qb situation.

I watched Rogers and Roethlisberger this weekend and the spirals were amazing. So much zip and on target. Again, i said for the most part. i was going to mention Manning throwing ducks at times, but I didn't say it was necessary, so didn't include it. Mostly wondering if EJ's ball had changed much from last season to this season.

 

Interesting...

 

 

Don't need a tight spiral, but shouldn't have too much wobble...fine line for accuracy...

Edited November 19, 2014 by ricojes

[SJDK]

they definitely did. Ejs passes weren't the best on a couple but if you can get a hand on it you can catch it.

I agree, and the onlly reason it was talked about is because a lot of them would have been nice gains. I look at the last two games and when Orton isn't taking sacks he is seeing ghosts and spiking the ball in the turf. Play waster

[section122]

I agree, and the onlly reason it was talked about is because a lot of them would have been nice gains. I look at the last two games and when Orton isn't taking sacks he is seeing ghosts and spiking the ball in the turf. Play waster

Yeah Orton has no mobility and it appears his field vision has dwindled greatly. He is starting to get scared back there which is concerning.

[Hot Buffalo Wings]

I think Robert Woods has dropped more than 1 first down balls right on his numbers.

[sjjr]

He just needs to go and take his place as a starting NFL QB when he gets his shot. "Let it rip" as he said. No doubt he has great upside but needs to be developed with patience.

[NoSaint]

Again….with regard to EJ….his teammates played a role in the deciding factor…. So conveniently forgotten inside all of the finger pointing that is going on.

 

If they stood up for him, Maroon backs off.

 

His WRs stopped playing for him for fear of getting decapitated by a Safety while laying out for one of his absolute sh-t passes.

 

get over it people….really.

 

conveniently forgotten? try widely acknowledged in the first page of posts. jeeeeze - wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?

[ko12010]

I agree with all of this. I also want to add that if PI was called on the last int by Manuel as it should have he may very well have a different narrative to his season. I said as much then but it boggles my mind that blown call by the refs (on "their point of emphasis" no less) effectively ended his season. It also doesn't surprise me that Fitz played well. I caught his pregame speech and the emotion was raw. He said something along the lines of "I know I don't say much but this game means a lot to me, it means a lot to me" and I'll bet it did. He was written off here and Nix trashed him (not on purpose) publicly.

Just a mind boggling no call there. Woods was absolutely mugged and held the entire time

 

Early in the game, the Bills WRs had the drops.

Sammy had 2, MW had a big one on a perfect ball, and either Chandler or Hogan had the other.

[KOKBILLS]

So, I re-watched the Bills Texans game last night because I wanted to re-evaluate my opinions of EJ Manuel earlier this season. A couple things I noticed watching that game without the overwhelming emotions that come with watching the games live are:

• The OL played AWFUL and it showed. We could not establish a running game. EJ was under pressure all game and I really think the play calling was bland.
  

• EJ's pick 6 to JJ Watt is more credit to Watt being a freak than anything. Andrew Luck did the same EXACT thing the week after, however, Watt bobbled it a little too much to get a clean pick to run with it.
  

• When CJ Spiller uses his first instinct to cut up field it usually works well/ok for us. Too many times we see him trying to bounce it out just oooone more time for that BIG play and it results in a loss of yards. That is lack of discipline.
  

• Fitzy played one of his better games against us. He used that magic we all know he is capable of using once in a while.
  

• Our defense dominated except for Corey Graham who gave up a late first half TD (the only TD our defense allowed) to Hopkins to make it 10-7 going into halftime. It looked like Graham fell asleep on that play.
  

I guess what I am trying to conclude here is that I think it's surprising how many people have already chalked EJ up as a bust. I see a lot of potential. His biggest problem right now is accuracy/timing. I'm no QB coach but I have to think that is something that can be improved over time (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't feel any desire to throw EJ back into this mess anytime soon. I think Marrone has made the right decision and EJ will benefit from taking a back seat. It is VERY difficult to find a franchise QB in this league, just look at 80% of the teams in the NFL. I billieve that we just might have something in EJ.

1. We need a BIG upgrade @ OL (free agency or draft or both?)
    
   
2. We need a desperate upgrade @ OC...
    
   
3. We could use a stud CB...
    
   
4. I'm ok with Marrone and Whaley sticking around. Not a fan of the revolving door.
    
   
5. Can't wait for Kiko to be playing again.
   

As Always, Go Bills.

 

 

You forgot to mention that Woods was clearly...and I mean obviously...illegally contacted on the last Offensive play...It could have been called PI as well...Woods was shoved 3 times after the 5 yard limit...Then the defender ran into him with his back to the ball, which was well in the air by then...And amazingly, even with all that illegal contact, Woods still almost managed to at least touch the ball...

 

One of the worst no-calls I've ever seen...Not saying it was the reason the Bills lost...Just saying...It was brutal...I'm still pissed off about it...

Edited November 19, 2014 by KOKBILLS

[Hot Buffalo Wings]

You forgot to mention that Woods was clearly...and I mean obviously...illegally contacted on the last Offensive play...It could have been called PI as well...Woods was shoved 3 times after the 5 yard limit...Then the defender ran into him with his back to the ball, which was well in the air by then...And amazingly, even with all that illegal contact, Woods still almost managed to at least touch the ball...

Agree. I didn't realize how bad it was at the time because I promptly made my way to a room with no TV in it. I realized last night that the reason it was an easy call is because the DB didn't even look at the ball...smh.

[Doc]

Again….with regard to EJ….his teammates played a role in the deciding factor…. So conveniently forgotten inside all of the finger pointing that is going on.

 

If they stood up for him, Maroon backs off.

 

His WRs stopped playing for him for fear of getting decapitated by a Safety while laying out for one of his absolute sh-t passes.

 

get over it people….really.

It's always easier to point at another scapegoat than yourself. And "the grass is always greener." I'm sure Moron would get the same reaction if he went to them after the Miami game and asked if he should go back to EJ.

[Solomon Grundy]

 

 

Early in the game, the Bills WRs had the drops.

 

Same in the KC game. Eerily identical?

 

Just a mind boggling no call there. Woods was absolutely mugged and held the entire time

 

Sammy had 2, MW had a big one on a perfect ball, and either Chandler or Hogan had the other.

 

Had to be Chandler! He always drops the ball

 

 

Yeah Orton has no mobility and it appears his field vision has dwindled greatly. He is starting to get scared back there which is concerning.

 

I'd be overly concerned playing behind this porous line too.

[K-9]

EJ's biggest issue in the Houston game was not the passes he threw. It was the passes he never attempted. The all-22 showed a lot of plays he left on the field. What's really telling about those plays is that he saw them, contemplated them, and then decided to bail. That's usually because he doesn't trust what he's seeing and that's usually because he lacks confidence, which is his biggest issue by far.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Max997]

No, EJ's pick 6 to JJ Watt was not about Watt being a freak more than anything bc the ball should have never been thrown

 

another winnable game was over at that point

[Hot Buffalo Wings]

No, EJ's pick 6 to JJ Watt was not about Watt being a freak more than anything bc the ball should have never been thrown

 

another winnable game was over at that point

It's a combination of both...I was also thinking that play should never have been called but I didn't want this post to be too wordy. Watt plays every position on the DL and you have to always be mindful of where he is.

 

When I said "The play calling was bland" I was referring to this play as well as the 100 other screen plays we ran that day. Sometimes its hard for me to tell if EJ is just not confident enough to not check down all the time or if the play calls for him to dump it to the RB that often. We were doing that all day. Watt was waiting for it.