xsoldier54 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Why do you make straw man arguments like that? I did not say mediocre is great. But to move forward you have to honestly assess where you are and figure out the best path forward. To me, this team is much better than the past 3-5 years, not good enough but better. i understand and feel the current unhappiness after the last two games, but I'd like to reach happiness. I just don't think "blowing it all up" yet again is the right answer. Staying the course and tweaking some things may be the better approach. I don't have optimism, I'm simply trying to discern the difference between reality and pessimism. The Bills should have beat a very good KC team, and about 6 things had to go wrong for them to lose at the end and they did. Unfortunate, absolutely. The team flat out stinks, not so much. Same with the Dolphins, leading 9-3 with 20 minutes to play. Tough loss, yes. Losing on the road to a solid team on a short week means the team stinks, not so much. I am trying to think this through like the Pegulas will have to do. Anger and hysteria are not great foundations for improving any organization, IMO. And I'm not angry or hysterical. I am a realist. And living in the real world, this team has talent, but they are not playing like a good football team or one that is even close to being good. Good teams do not give away games that they should win and this team has done that 3 times this year. 3 out of the 5 losses were games that they should have won, but managed to lose. If that isn't cause for getting rid of the coaching staff, I don't know what is. It is the coaches job to get the team prepared to win football games. When the team does not respond, even though they have the talent, then that falls on the coaches and they need to be fired. That is my realistic assessment of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) And I'm not angry or hysterical. I am a realist. And living in the real world, this team has talent, but they are not playing like a good football team or one that is even close to being good. Good teams do not give away games that they should win and this team has done that 3 times this year. 3 out of the 5 losses were games that they should have won, but managed to lose. If that isn't cause for getting rid of the coaching staff, I don't know what is. It is the coaches job to get the team prepared to win football games. When the team does not respond, even though they have the talent, then that falls on the coaches and they need to be fired. That is my realistic assessment of the situation. And they won games late against Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit. You can't say we lost 3 games we "should have" won and ignore the 3 games we "should have" lost and call yourself a realist. Realism is the word people use when they are angry, and the substance of your comments show that. That's OK, but those who don't agree with you are not being unrealistic simply because you label yourself a realist. Edited November 17, 2014 by Casey D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 And they won games late against Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit. You can't say we lost 3 games we "should have" won and ignore the 3 games we "should have" lost and call yourself a realist. Realism is the word people use when they are angry, and the substance of your comments show that. That's OK, but those who don't agree with you are not being unrealistic simply because you label yourself a realist. Because they won those games late does not mean that they should have lost them. Chicago has proven that they are not a very good team and ditto with Minnesota and we barely manged to beat those teams. Beating Detroit proves my point even further. This team has talent, but they have played poorly and lost games against inferior teams that they had no business losing to. Again, that falls on the coaches. That is as real as it gets. And since when does realism equate to angry? In what universe is that true? Certainly not in the one that I live in. But then again, your comments indicate you may be living on another plane from the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whack 'Em Williams Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 We're out of the playoff picture and it's not even December. We're bad. WHAT HE SAID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Because they won those games late does not mean that they should have lost them. Chicago has proven that they are not a very good team and ditto with Minnesota and we barely manged to beat those teams. Beating Detroit proves my point even further. This team has talent, but they have played poorly and lost games against inferior teams that they had no business losing to. Again, that falls on the coaches. That is as real as it gets. And since when does realism equate to angry? In what universe is that true? Certainly not in the one that I live in. But then again, your comments indicate you may be living on another plane from the rest of us. Not at all. You have lots of assumptions in your views. I really don't know that the talent on this team is so great that we are losing to teams we have "no business losing to." Like who-- New England, San Diego, splitting with the Fins, KC? The defense is overall quite good, but melts down at times in key spots. The offense is below average in terms of talent overall on the line and QB. Watkins is a very good receiver, but the rest seem mediocre. Running back... average. Maybe you are right that all these guys at these positions would be better with different coaches. At this point that is unknowable-- at least based on my ability to evaluate the situation. That's why I think the idea of an outside evaluator coming in and determining where the fault primarily lies is a great idea. If I was Pegula, I would find someone who is smart and skilled and I could trust to provide me with expert eyes, and go from there. I don't think the team is all that far away, and I'd like to know where to make the right changes-- not change for change's sake-- to improve the team as much as possible for next year. Bang for the buck and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) New England pummels Indianapolis, Houston routes Cleveland on the road, and KC beats the world champion Seahawks. What does that teach us? The Bills may not be that far off after all. The Bills have been competitive against teams that supposedly superior teams-- like Indy, Cleveland and Seattle-- have not done very well against. 5-5 against difficult competition, with few easy opponents, while not good enough is not horrible. Seems to me it shows the team is getting better, and may not be as far off as many think. Perhaps it is not the "same old Bills," but an improving team with a little ways to go. Certainly, directionally, good enough to stay the current path (with tweaks) and not "blow the thing up." I believe the overwhelming opinion around here is in agreement with the bolded portion of your statement. We can see that nearly all the pieces are in place to be at least in the upper third of the league. That we're not in that situation seems clearer by the week to be the result of poor coaching decisions, such as the uber conservative play-calling, the pettiness (or ignorance) that seems to have put Mike Williams and Kraig Urbik in Marrone's doghouse, among any number of other head-scratching moves. That's why we're all so angry/depressed/half-nuts. We can see where we should be and it's demoralizing to watch this collection of talent misused. Edited November 17, 2014 by yungmack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Good for you Casey D. Stick to your guns, man. Somebody that's not a head-hanger, that's refreshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Good for you Casey D. Stick to your guns, man. Somebody that's not a head-hanger, that's refreshing. i actually agree with everything he is saying. I'd say it myself but it's easier to do the 'ol +1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Not at all. You have lots of assumptions in your views. I really don't know that the talent on this team is so great that we are losing to teams we have "no business losing to." Like who-- New England, San Diego, splitting with the Fins, KC? The defense is overall quite good, but melts down at times in key spots. The offense is below average in terms of talent overall on the line and QB. Watkins is a very good receiver, but the rest seem mediocre. Running back... average. Maybe you are right that all these guys at these positions would be better with different coaches. At this point that is unknowable-- at least based on my ability to evaluate the situation. That's why I think the idea of an outside evaluator coming in and determining where the fault primarily lies is a great idea. If I was Pegula, I would find someone who is smart and skilled and I could trust to provide me with expert eyes, and go from there. I don't think the team is all that far away, and I'd like to know where to make the right changes-- not change for change's sake-- to improve the team as much as possible for next year. Bang for the buck and all that. Well if you can't even identify which teams we lost to that we should have beaten then I can understand your dilemma. For me those games were not New England or San Diego, they clearly were outplayed in those two games. The other three losses however were all winnable games. They gave away three games, the Houston game, the KC game and the second Miami game. Again, that comes down to coaching (for the third time). You don't need an outside evaluation to tell you that. Teams that lose games that they have no business losing are not well coached. Period. I agree with you that they are not far off. They need an upgrade on the OL and tried to address that in the draft. They found two starters, but still need help at G. Changing coaches is not the only change that is needed, but I believe with a different HC and OC this team is 7-2 right now with not a single personnel change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Well if you can't even identify which teams we lost to that we should have beaten then I can understand your dilemma. For me those games were not New England or San Diego, they clearly were outplayed in those two games. The other three losses however were all winnable games. They gave away three games, the Houston game, the KC game and the second Miami game. Again, that comes down to coaching (for the third time). You don't need an outside evaluation to tell you that. Teams that lose games that they have no business losing are not well coached. Period. I agree with you that they are not far off. They need an upgrade on the OL and tried to address that in the draft. They found two starters, but still need help at G. Changing coaches is not the only change that is needed, but I believe with a different HC and OC this team is 7-2 right now with not a single personnel change. OK. so you believe it. It's like A Few Good Men. "I object. Overruled. I strenuously object." Repeating the same thing does not make it any more persuasive. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Good for you Casey D. Stick to your guns, man. Somebody that's not a head-hanger, that's refreshing. Do not confuse "head hanging" with brutal realism. It is brutal realism which makes the greats great and which makes mediocrity intolerable. Your "head hanging" is my "willing acceptance of failure" which makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Do not confuse "head hanging" with brutal realism. It is brutal realism which makes the greats great and which makes mediocrity intolerable. Your "head hanging" is my "willing acceptance of failure" which makes me sick. That's funny-- "brutal realism." I agree with the brutal part. What makes the great great is talent, hard work, and a deep seated hatred of losing, not brutality. If the pain of losing is intolerable, you will strive as hard as you can to avoid the pain. It's really quite simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 It's November and the Bills are out of it...just like the past 14 years. Not being a troll, just being realistic. Our quarterbacking and coaching are below NFL standards as it has been since the last century. Until that changes we will be having this conversation for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 it proves on any given Sunday any team can win. well except for the raiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 New England pummels Indianapolis, Houston routes Cleveland on the road, and KC beats the world champion Seahawks. What does that teach us? Same thing as the Raiders & Jets nearly beating NE in Foxboro, Tampa Bay winning @Pittsburgh, Miami getting smoked by KC at home, St Louis beating Denver & SF, SF romping @Dallas, Houston getting punked by the Giants, the Chargers getting not one but two tough games from Oakland, the Jets giving GB everything they can handle in Lambeau and 50 other games.... Nothing. Sorry but you're asking for the snarky koolaid posts. If you still think transitive properties in common opponents matter in 2014 I don't know what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) Same thing as the Raiders & Jets nearly beating NE in Foxboro, Tampa Bay winning @Pittsburgh, Miami getting smoked by KC at home, St Louis beating Denver & SF, SF romping @Dallas, Houston getting punked by the Giants, the Chargers getting not one but two tough games from Oakland, the Jets giving GB everything they can handle in Lambeau and 50 other games.... Nothing. Sorry but you're asking for the snarky koolaid posts. If you still think transitive properties in common opponents matter in 2014 I don't know what to tell you. No it shows that the situation in the NFL is quite fluid this year, and "things people know" one week become discredited quickly, e.g., the Patriots are done meme in early October. It is not close games played by bad teams, but supposedly superior teams losing to the same teams the Bills played well against consistently that evidences that the Bills may be close to breaking through next year. I don't know why it always has to be there are "realists" and "Kool-Aid" drinkers. I'm neither. A moderate I suppose. Just trying to figure out the best way forward. Blowing things up has a high price too, a guaranteed 1-2 years of more mediocrity in all likelihood while a new system takes hold. Then we throw it all out again. I just want to believe that blowing it all up is the only choice before doing it. And it should be done after sober and careful analysis, not because we are pi*sed at some losses. Edited November 18, 2014 by Casey D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 No it shows that the situation in the NFL is quite fluid this year, and "things people know" one week become discredited quickly, e.g., the Patriots are done meme in early October. It is not close games played by bad teams, but supposedly superior teams losing to the same teams the Bills played well against consistently that evidences that the Bills may be close to breaking through next year. I don't know why it always has to be there are "realists" and "Kool-Aid" drinkers. I'm neither. A moderate I suppose. Just trying to figure out the best way forward. Blowing things up has a high price too, a guaranteed 1-2 years of more mediocrity in all likelihood while a new system takes hold. Then we throw it all out again. I just want to believe that blowing it all up is the only choice before doing it. And it should be done after sober and careful analysis, not because we are pi*sed at some losses. Casey: You sound like a rational person. I don't know if you are right, but you make reasoned arguments and I appreciate it. It will be interesting to see how the team reacts in these last six games. We will find out a lot about the players and Marone as head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasBillsFan1 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I watched a couple games last weekend. I saw dominant teams execute, and coaching that pushed those good teams to a win. I don't know that the Bills are close. They may be inching their way there, but that is not good enough. When I watch other teams (NE, KC (at the moment), Cardinals, Green Bay) I can't help but think how FAR the Bills have to go to get to those levels. The answer is simple, as we all know. Find a great QB and the rest will fall in place. Until then, all else is futile. NE, right now, is unstoppable. They look REALLY, scary good ... on both sides of the ball. We are unlucky enough to have Tom Brady in our division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 I watched a couple games last weekend. I saw dominant teams execute, and coaching that pushed those good teams to a win. I don't know that the Bills are close. They may be inching their way there, but that is not good enough. When I watch other teams (NE, KC (at the moment), Cardinals, Green Bay) I can't help but think how FAR the Bills have to go to get to those levels. The answer is simple, as we all know. Find a great QB and the rest will fall in place. Until then, all else is futile. NE, right now, is unstoppable. They look REALLY, scary good ... on both sides of the ball. We are unlucky enough to have Tom Brady in our division. The problem with your point is that it is just like saying date Kate Upton and you'll have a great sex life. Finding that "great QB" is very very hard to do, and about 20 teams are trying to do it. It is not that the Bills have overlooked it, they have failed to find one like so many other teams. #8 selection Jake Locker from 2011 (2012?) sitting on the bench last night playing behind a rookie 6th round pick. If the Bills wait until they have a "great QB" to make the playoffs, it could take forever, and that's assembling the greatest football minds on the planet to identify the next it guy. A decent QB is all you can ask for, while hoping to get lucky and get something more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) We're out of the playoff picture and it's not even December. We're bad. Pretty much, This. "Parity" in the modern NFL means it's very rare that a team completely blows chunks. The differences between a winning and a losing team are preparation, some psychology, and a handful of plays in each game. Edited November 18, 2014 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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