K-9 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 EJ Manuel's development is just not best served by having him quarterback a now sinking ship. There is NOTHING to be gained from that experience. He is doing what was planned for him last year; learning while watching a veteran execute (or not) the offense. He needs to stay on the bench and come back next offseason ready to compete for the job. Barring injury to Orton, I believe that's the plan. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The red zone and offense was bad long before Orton became the starter. Orton sure would look a heck of a lot better with a better line & power run game to help him out now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 That veteran-presence bit would make more sense if Orton hadn't played terribly the last two weeks. Watkins is the only rookie among the skill guys, and the line has played just as badly in front of Orton as it did with E.J. As for the 'painfully obvious' part, Manuel had two terrible games and two OK ones this season. Orton has had two terrible games, one more bad than good (New England), two that would be remembered as OK at best except for one late drive in each (Detroit and Minnesota), and a walkover against the Jets. The Bills are .500 under each quarterback. No doubt, Orton was better in his first four starts than Manuel in his. But he needed to be a lot better for longer to justify permanently scrapping a first-round pick. The comment below is basically what I'm saying. No one's saying 'permanently' scrap a first round pick. The question is: should you play a first round pick (who's demonstrated he's nowhere near ready) just because he was a #1? Remember Marv Levy and Bill Polian's philosophy during the Bills glory days? 1st year players (2nd in EJ's case given injuries) were 'groomed'. They weren't thrown into the fire until they could be successful. Embracing a journeyman like Orton makes as much sense as passing on Wilson, Kaepernick, Foles, etc because we were "satisfied" with Ryan Fitzpatrick, and felt he was the answer at the QB position. That set this franchise back. Why not give the young guy a shot- he's started but 14 games in his brief career. Orton is what he is- mediocre. So many here are convinced Manuel is a bust...the only surety at this point is that Kyle Orton is a journeyman- and NOT the future of this franchise. Great, let's sit Orton for EJ and watch the Bills give the Browns a 'high' #1 draft pick. Why not risk that experiment if and when Orton's injured? Or better still, in an open competition with others next pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfk Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 oh i thought Mangeni the man Genius wanted him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Tell Mort to tell that to Aaron Rodgers, Colin Kaepernick. If only we could graft Orton's head onto EJ's body...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 If only we could graft Orton's head onto EJ's body...... Orton's head isn't much better than EJs! EJ's only problem was his accuracy! He was going the right places with the ball, just wasn't hitting target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 EJ Manuel's development is just not best served by having him quarterback a now sinking ship. There is NOTHING to be gained from that experience. He is doing what was planned for him last year; learning while watching a veteran execute (or not) the offense. He needs to stay on the bench and come back next offseason ready to compete for the job. Barring injury to Orton, I believe that's the plan. GO BILLS!!! When you weigh the decision of protecting EJ Manuel’s development vs putting 6 additional live game experiences under Manuel's belt, the answer should be clear. You put Manuel in and see what he does. You give him free reign to make great plays and make mistakes. You stop playing conservative and you tell EJ to challenge defenses with deep throws down the field. I don’t care if he throws 15 interceptions. The season is over. I'd like to see Manuel get the nerves and gitters out of his system this year with the goal of him possibly coming out on the other end of this “trial by fire” with him lighting defenses up the last couple of games. The Bills will garner almost nothing regarding Manuel’s development in the off season and training camp sessions. The only way to truly evaluate Manuel now and in the future is live action. The new owner should just fire Marrone so that there’s no more delusion and the interim HC is instructed that the most important objective of the remaining 2014 season is to evaluate EJ Manuel and to let him throw it 30 to 35 times a game. No more fear of failure. I don't care if we win a couple more games with Orton. Who cares. There's nothing to be gained from THAT experience. This team desperately needs answers regarding Manuel and now that the Titanic is officially going down, it's time to embrace this opportunity no matter the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 When you weigh the decision of protecting EJ Manuel’s development vs putting 6 additional live game experiences under Manuel's belt, the answer should be clear. You put Manuel in and see what he does. You give him free reign to make great plays and make mistakes. You stop playing conservative and you tell EJ to challenge defenses with deep throws down the field. I don’t care if he throws 15 interceptions. The season is over. I'd like to see Manuel get the nerves and gitters out of his system this year with the goal of him possibly coming out on the other end of this “trial by fire” with him lighting defenses up the last couple of games. The Bills will garner almost nothing regarding Manuel’s development in the off season and training camp sessions. The only way to truly evaluate Manuel now and in the future is live action. The new owner should just fire Marrone so that there’s no more delusion and the interim HC is instructed that the most important objective of the remaining 2014 season is to evaluate EJ Manuel and to let him throw it 30 to 35 times a game. No more fear of failure. I don't care if we win a couple more games with Orton. Who cares. There's nothing to be gained from THAT experience. This team desperately needs answers regarding Manuel and now that the Titanic is officially going down, it's time to embrace this opportunity no matter the results. I just can't agree with the idea of putting him back in given that scenario. When it's run for the bus time, I don't think you can fairly gauge progress. It'll amount to nothing more than preseason action. I'd prefer to see meaningful development in meaningful games with the rest of the team fully on board with achieving meaningful results. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Are you joking about this part? EJ Manuel "call his own plays"? They have limited the playbook so he could function at all--now you want him to make it up as he goes along....based on how he reads defenses? Yikes. Look, if you want him to be part of some developmental program, send him to FXL, or whatever it is. Or the CFL. I won't pretend he could do it 60 minutes but we've found out some of the times he's looked best was without Hackett in his ear. hurry up or radios going out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Don't forget, EJ's benching had as much to do with keeping our wr's healthy. He was hanging them out to dry. Watkins quit on a limp wristed throw cause he knew he was gonna get killed to gain 5 yards on a 3rd and 15. Woods was every bit as disgusted. Edited November 16, 2014 by Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 As has been posted repeatedly, it was painfully obvious EJ was no where ready for prime time. A veteran presence (Orton) leading a rookie-filled line-up, in the near term, makes sense. My concerns about EJ are three-fold: 1) his ability to process the game quickly 2) his accuracy as a passer 3) his courage (or lack thereof) in the pocket. Courage or lack thereof......The point of having a mobile QB is that he doesn't sit in the middle of a failing pocket but actually MOVES, even a foot or two and extends the play, even for ONE second. Orton+Deer in the headlights. His sacks and that deserved safety(He clearly chucked it up w/o any idea where it was going) are the antithesis of courage. He's a BUM!!!!! EJ needs to start the rest of the games. It's called experience. He needs it. I would wager we would have one at least one of these last two games with EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 And you honestly believe that EJ is going to come in and miraculously turn this team around? He couldn't do when everyone was healthy. It doesn't matter whether EJ is going to "miraculously turn this team around" or not, because this season is (as usual) over in mid November. This is the time to decide whether there's any reason to consider EJ a quarterback of the future, or even of 2015, or even a backup of 2015. Because once you know that, you know everything else you need to know about this team going forward, like "Do we need to draft another QB? Or "Do we need to trade for a QB or do the best we can with Orton or some other free agent." Everyone knows now what Orton is and is not. Manuel? I'm not optimistic, but there's some chance. Remember, Tannehill was about to be benched for the Orton-esque Matt Moore just about a month ago, and now he's the best thing since ... Marino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 If a secret poll were conducted among the players on the roster, who do people think the team wold want starting next week? I have to believe that every player on the team wants to win games. And, personally, I'm tired of this idea that because we aren't going to the playoffs (again), that the rest of the season doesn't matter. You don't build a winning culture by only bothering to win the games that "matter." Regardless of how "done" our season is, I still want us to play every game to win. I believe that is what's best for the team in the long run. That, IMHO, is how you build a winning culture. If Kyle Orton is our best QB (he is), then he should start until he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 When you weigh the decision of protecting EJ Manuel’s development vs putting 6 additional live game experiences under Manuel's belt, the answer should be clear. You put Manuel in and see what he does. You give him free reign to make great plays and make mistakes. You stop playing conservative and you tell EJ to challenge defenses with deep throws down the field. I don’t care if he throws 15 interceptions. The season is over. I'd like to see Manuel get the nerves and gitters out of his system this year with the goal of him possibly coming out on the other end of this “trial by fire” with him lighting defenses up the last couple of games. The Bills will garner almost nothing regarding Manuel’s development in the off season and training camp sessions. The only way to truly evaluate Manuel now and in the future is live action. The new owner should just fire Marrone so that there’s no more delusion and the interim HC is instructed that the most important objective of the remaining 2014 season is to evaluate EJ Manuel and to let him throw it 30 to 35 times a game. No more fear of failure. I don't care if we win a couple more games with Orton. Who cares. There's nothing to be gained from THAT experience. This team desperately needs answers regarding Manuel and now that the Titanic is officially going down, it's time to embrace this opportunity no matter the results. You beat me to it. Exactly my thoughts. And as for worry about Manuel getting hurt or losing even more confidence with our RB injuries and pathetic O line, I'll be blunt: this is nothing to be concerned about. It's not like we've got some incredibly sought after Andrew Luck type in EJ; we have a Jake Locker type. Either he shows something this year or he's marginal to even make an NFL roster next year. Seriously, Christian Ponder put up a pretty similar performance and he's teetering on the edge of an NFL career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 When you weigh the decision of protecting EJ Manuel’s development vs putting 6 additional live game experiences under Manuel's belt, the answer should be clear. You put Manuel in and see what he does. You give him free reign to make great plays and make mistakes. You stop playing conservative and you tell EJ to challenge defenses with deep throws down the field. I don’t care if he throws 15 interceptions. The season is over. I'd like to see Manuel get the nerves and gitters out of his system this year with the goal of him possibly coming out on the other end of this “trial by fire” with him lighting defenses up the last couple of games. The Bills will garner almost nothing regarding Manuel’s development in the off season and training camp sessions. The only way to truly evaluate Manuel now and in the future is live action. The new owner should just fire Marrone so that there’s no more delusion and the interim HC is instructed that the most important objective of the remaining 2014 season is to evaluate EJ Manuel and to let him throw it 30 to 35 times a game. No more fear of failure. I don't care if we win a couple more games with Orton. Who cares. There's nothing to be gained from THAT experience. This team desperately needs answers regarding Manuel and now that the Titanic is officially going down, it's time to embrace this opportunity no matter the results. No offense, but I despise your attitude. This is no way to build a winning team by declaring the season "over." Sure, we're not making the playoffs, and everyone knows it. But, I would sure hope that every member of the team still wants to win games from now until game 16. Maybe you don't care it EJ throws 15 interceptions. But, I'll bet it would be a pretty serious downer for him and every other member of the team. I have a hard time believing that making the rest of the season some experiment that does't include winning games does the team any good. Losing more games isn't going to make our team better next season. It's only going to make us losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 No offense, but I despise your attitude. This is no way to build a winning team by declaring the season "over." Sure, we're not making the playoffs, and everyone knows it. But, I would sure hope that every member of the team still wants to win games from now until game 16. Maybe you don't care it EJ throws 15 interceptions. But, I'll bet it would be a pretty serious downer for him and every other member of the team. I have a hard time believing that making the rest of the season some experiment that does't include winning games does the team any good. Losing more games isn't going to make our team better next season. It's only going to make us losers. Spot on. I want every player on this team gunning for 11-5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) EJ Manuel's development is just not best served by having him quarterback a now sinking ship. There is NOTHING to be gained from that experience. He is doing what was planned for him last year; learning while watching a veteran execute (or not) the offense. He needs to stay on the bench and come back next offseason ready to compete for the job. Barring injury to Orton, I believe that's the plan. GO BILLS!!! more chicken dinner for your.Exactly correct Spot on. I want every player on this team gunning for 11-5. and we have another winner. with respect to Rocky Landing's fine postThis ^ all day every day Edited November 16, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 No offense, but I despise your attitude. This is no way to build a winning team by declaring the season "over." Sure, we're not making the playoffs, and everyone knows it. But, I would sure hope that every member of the team still wants to win games from now until game 16. Maybe you don't care it EJ throws 15 interceptions. But, I'll bet it would be a pretty serious downer for him and every other member of the team. I have a hard time believing that making the rest of the season some experiment that does't include winning games does the team any good. Losing more games isn't going to make our team better next season. It's only going to make us losers. You say hate the attitude and in the next breath say " Sure, we're not making the playoffs, and everyone knows it." a team with a winning attitude doesn't know that. They believe that they have the capability of winning the next 6 games. And with that record they most likely do make the playoffs. I am not saying I believe they can, but saying "everyone knows it" basically nullifies what you say you want. Everyone is calking up future games as losses, technically they have the ability to win 6 more games, in the past the fans would be talking about mathematically eliminated now the team does not even get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You say hate the attitude and in the next breath say " Sure, we're not making the playoffs, and everyone knows it." a team with a winning attitude doesn't know that. They believe that they have the capability of winning the next 6 games. And with that record they most likely do make the playoffs. I am not saying I believe they can, but saying "everyone knows it" basically nullifies what you say you want. Everyone is calking up future games as losses, technically they have the ability to win 6 more games, in the past the fans would be talking about mathematically eliminated now the team does not even get that. He's saying that the upcoming games are not "worthless" even though it's very likely we don't make the playoffs. Think Peyton Manning or Brady and the Patriots wouldn't play to win every game even if they can't make the playoffs? That's the difference. That's what we want. And playing EJ goes against that attitude. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Hopefully, the idea that "Orton is good enough to win with" has been thoroughly disproven, for the reasons included in the link below. Arguments to the contrary are welcome. http://wewantmarangi...els-return.html I thought another team actually wanted Manuel, to which I make that trade in a heartbeat. Hopefully, the idea that "Orton is good enough to win with" has been thoroughly disproven, for the reasons included in the link below. Arguments to the contrary are welcome. http://wewantmarangi...els-return.html don't hit the post button 3 times in a row, give it a second to post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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