bobobonators Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 2 key stats that are really game-changers in my opinion: Completion % and yards per attempt. There is a 1.6 ypa difference between Orton and EJ. Just how large is that gap? The difference between the #1 QB in the NFL in ypa (Peyton Manning at 8.47) and #30 in the NFL (Tannehill at 6.56) is 1.91. That's the difference from the absolute best to someone ranked #30 - almost dead last. So 1.6 is light years apart. Orton ranks #6 in the NFL in ypa. There is 9.4 difference in completion % between Orton and EJ. Just how large is that gap? The difference between the #1 NFL QB in completion % (drew brees - 69.5%) and the #30 in the NFL (EJ and Locker at 58.0) is 11.5. A 9.4 difference is again, light years apart. Orton ranks #7 in completion % in the NFL. Orton does take more sacks but produces many more big plays and does so more consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Obviously, Orton is a much better passer at this point. I would hope when EJ is in his tenth year, he will be better. The fact that Orton has become a better QB with more experience is why you continue to develop EJ. Look at Orton's first 15 games: http://www.nfl.com/p...ogs?season=2005 51.6%, 5.1 ypa, 9 tds, 13 ints, 59.7 qb rating and a game where he threw 0 tds and 5 ints. I still believe anything less than a winning record and this is a mistake. But so far, especially with the first legit win, it looks good. Hopefully, EJ is learning in the meetings and from Orton. I think we finally have a team good enough where we can sit a 1st rounder on the bench and not be forced to play him. Except Big Ben can break out of sacks. As bad as I think Hackett is, Orton can make some negative plays on his own. They are drive killers (and it's not all on him). It's the reason we struggle to score against the Lions and Vikes despite moving the ball. EJ won't have a 10th year. At some points his personal fans need to realize this guy doesn't have it. But then again it took JP, RJ, Trent fans years after they were done to finally get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 EJ is going to benefit from watching the way Orton runs a huddle and the game. Everything we've come to read, hear, and see about him suggests he's a very hard worker who wants to learn. Ideally this mentor/apprentice relationship would have been struck a year ago, but we all know how Whaley and Marrone made a complete mess of the QB situation. They were incredibly fortunate to have Orton fall into their laps -- and I say better late than never. It's about time the organization had some good luck. I haven't given up on EJ and neither should anyone else at this point. For now, though, and perhaps the next year or so as well, Orton is the guy who has the best chance to lead the team back into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) wow If I had posted this the EJ haters would have gone wild!!!! the KO lovers hate EJ, want to fire Marone, Hacket and anyone else involved but their lovable hero. They are also of the group that wants to trade EJ for McCoy because Colt has potential!! --------------- y'all chose to give me crap for a week when I let the dead horse die. you expected me to be quiet? papaziodsacks are Orton's weakness....which is why his QBR stats stink, compared to his very good passer rating. +1 Edited October 29, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) EJ is going to benefit from watching the way Orton runs a huddle and the game. Everything we've come to read, hear, and see about him suggests he's a very hard worker who wants to learn. Ideally this mentor/apprentice relationship would have been struck a year ago, but we all know how Whaley and Marrone made a complete mess of the QB situation. They were incredibly fortunate to have Orton fall into their laps -- and I say better late than never. It's about time the organization had some good luck. I haven't given up on EJ and neither should anyone else at this point. For now, though, and perhaps the next year or so as well, Orton is the guy who has the best chance to lead the team back into the playoffs. I really hope so man. I too believe that EJ can benefit from this. However, I would have no problems with him benefiting from another year on the bench next season too. ;-) wow If I had posted this the EJ haters would have gone wild!!!! the KO lovers hate EJ, want to fire Marone, Hacket and anyone else involved but their lovable hero. They are also of the group that wants to trade EJ for McCoy because Colt has potential!! --------------- y'all chose to give me crap for a week when I let the dead horse die. you expected me to be quiet? +1 Because EJ's 19.8 QBR was tearing it up... Give it up man. Edited October 29, 2014 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) What the experts busted on EJ about when he was coming out was his accuracy, decision making , which are probably more important in the make up of a QB than any other thing that can hurt their game . EJ has the "PROTOTYPICAL" NFL QB make up , he has a big arm , good mobility , & size which is all part of the package but if you can't read oppositions D & make a sound decision where to go with the ball then lastly have the accuracy to put it where you want you will only ever be a back up in this league !! If we all remember when Orton was in college he was in the Hiesmen race while at Perdue & he fell short but the guy has game managing ability & he is smart thats what you need to be a good ,not great QB in the NFL !! Edited October 29, 2014 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 QBR / yards / TD's/ completion %/ ypa - Orton blows EJ away in every single category. And wins too.. This conversation should've died away along time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) The number of sacks that Orton has taken is pretty striking. It leads me to believe that Orton is much more willing to eat the ball when he doesnt see anything he likes. Obviously the O line has a lot to do with the number of sacks. The play where a Jet came in untouched from both sides of the line is just unacceptable! But it is true, Orton is not afraid to take a sack when nothing is there. He also afraid to take a big hit to give his received an extra second to get open. Edited October 29, 2014 by ricojes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 EJ won't have a 10th year. At some points his personal fans need to realize this guy doesn't have it. But then again it took JP, RJ, Trent fans years after they were done to finally get it Wtf do you get out of this? Seriously. You're a grown man who feels the need to rip on a 24 year old who is playing the NFL. What is your goal here? I could see if EJ was some knucklehead but all accounts he's a good guy. And I'm willing to bet he is further along in his career than you are in yours. So honestly, what do you have to gain by ripping on the guy in every other post? I really hope so man. I too believe that EJ can benefit from this. However, I would have no problems with him benefiting from another year on the bench next season too. ;-) Because EJ's 19.8 QBR was tearing it up... Give it up man. Orton is 28th in QBR. There is still room for improvement. Why does it have to be a fight or one or other? Orton is doing a good job. But he struggled worse than EJ did early in his career. He was the weakness of the Bears. So, now that he has grown with time, why is it wrong to hope EJ can do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Wtf do you get out of this? Seriously. You're a grown man who feels the need to rip on a 24 year old who is playing the NFL. What is your goal here? I could see if EJ was some knucklehead but all accounts he's a good guy. And I'm willing to bet he is further along in his career than you are in yours. So honestly, what do you have to gain by ripping on the guy in every other post? Orton is 28th in QBR. There is still room for improvement. Why does it have to be a fight or one or other? Orton is doing a good job. But he struggled worse than EJ did early in his career. He was the weakness of the Bears. So, now that he has grown with time, why is it wrong to hope EJ can do the same? It's not a fight for one or the other b/c so far this season, there's no competition. If Orton starts playing the way EJ did and we finish 6-10 then we can begin to have this discussion. I'm a Bills fan, not an Orton or EJ fan. I don't care either way. But to rip on a guy that is clearly better than the player he replaced is a waste of time. It's an improvement - end of story. Edited October 29, 2014 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) It's not a fight for one or the other b/c so far this season, there's no competition. If Orton starts playing the way EJ did and we finish 6-10 then we can begin to have this discussion. I'm a Bills fan, not an Orton or EJ fan. I don't care either way. But to rip on a guy that is clearly better (yes he can still improve) and has been winning is unacceptable. Total agreement. I wasn't thrilled with the first 3 games but I thought Orton had his best game this week. And IMO, both guys are being hurt by coaching. Edited October 29, 2014 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 The thing most shocking to me is that Orton was somehow able to get 5 rushing yards. Dude is a statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I have to think yds per throw correlates to sacks too. Reminds me of Big Ben-- guy takes a lot of sacks in order to look for bigger pass plays. In this case it really doesn't. Orton's significantly better YPA number is due almost entirely to his better completion percentage. Orton and Manuels YPC (Yards per completion) are very similar (11.8 vs. 11.1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 The only stat that matters is win/loss. It's clear when you hear the WRs speak that they much prefer to have Orton throwing them the ball. We can win with Orton but Doug Whaley has to go find us our long term QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 The only stat that matters is win/loss. Not true. The Bills wins have been embarrassing, so we really must find a way to win better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Not true. The Bills wins have been embarrassing, so we really must find a way to win better.... Haha! Lol @ Bills fans. This team can't do anything right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Orton's sacks are likely 1 yard EJ runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) I'm a Bills fan, not an Orton or EJ fan. I don't care either way. But to rip on a guy that is clearly better than the player he replaced is a waste of time. then prove it and stop giving me **** for saying I think EJ may still have potential!! (which I have not done in a week or more) Edited October 29, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Wtf do you get out of this? Seriously. You're a grown man who feels the need to rip on a 24 year old who is playing the NFL. What is your goal here? I could see if EJ was some knucklehead but all accounts he's a good guy. And I'm willing to bet he is further along in his career than you are in yours. So honestly, what do you have to gain by ripping on the guy in every other post? Orton is 28th in QBR. There is still room for improvement. Why does it have to be a fight or one or other? Orton is doing a good job. But he struggled worse than EJ did early in his career. He was the weakness of the Bears. So, now that he has grown with time, why is it wrong to hope EJ can do the same? Kellyto83 is a sad fan indeed........I get visions of him out there with a EJ Manual big stick on and he uses it for dart practice Edited October 29, 2014 by John from Hemet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 EJ was not close to what Orton was in college. EJ was surrounded by ridiculous talent and had a great defense. EJ was incapable of carrying his team and Jimbo relied on him to not turn the ball over and that's it. Orton carried his college team despite and playing with zero NFL talent but had an off the charts senior year playing through injuries. And that's when the Big 10 was good. I get that EJ is young and QBs can develop later in their careers (rare at best). However EJ was never a great QB in college. He was good and that's all. He wasn't Jameis, Tebow, Cam, Dak, VY or JF who single handedly made ridiculous plays to keep their teams in games. He never displayed the skills to win a football game by himself, not once. So why is he all of a suddens going to "develop" in the NFL? Because he's big? Good looking and nice? He ran a fast 40 (despite being stiff with no fluidity)? Because he throws a tight spiral? He's always been inaccurate and unable to read defenses and go through his progressions. Those two attributes are more important than anything else and EJ simply doesn't have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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