Kirby Jackson Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Good to hear!! I always liked Urbik. He's a decent OG and IMO the best on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Thanks much, I think it confirms what we suspected and what we saw. However, I do have one issue: You based it on 17 pass plays, well, Orton was sacked four times, and scrambled at least one time for positive yards. Those are pass plays by design, and also pass plays that weren't executed. "Obviously" something broke down on those plays, they should be included in the analysis as well. I think I may have missed a few plays there... I'm quite certain I saw all of the sack plays.. just maybe forgot to mark them down on my tally sheet..I intend to do a more thorough overall O line/QB review tomorrow along the same lines once the All 22 footage comes out. If I see anything I missed regarding Urbik I will certainly mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 FWIW - Pro Football Focus rated our line's performance against the Jets as follows (from left to right): Overall Performance: Glenn -0.5 Urbik -0.6 Wood -5.9 Pears -2.1 Henderson +0.5 Pass Blocking: Glenn +0.4 Urbik +0.4 Wood 0.0 Pears -0.6 Henderson +0.9 Run Blocking: Glenn -1.1 Urbik -1.1 Wood -6.0 Pears -1.6 Henderson -0.6 There also are grades for penalties. The tackles were +0.2 and the others were 0.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Nobody ever wanted Urbik benched (except Marrone). He was even good at Center when he filled in for injured Wood a few years back (much better than Levitre at Center). Just another poor assessment of talent by Marrone. Reminds me of how Mike Williams is now riding the bench now despite being the most experienced and physical pass-catcher on the team. Nobody ever said Williams should be benched, only Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 what does this scoring system mean? FWIW - Pro Football Focus rated our line's performance against the Jets as follows (from left to right): Overall Performance: Glenn -0.5 Urbik -0.6 Wood -5.9 Pears -2.1 Henderson +0.5 Pass Blocking: Glenn +0.4 Urbik +0.4 Wood 0.0 Pears -0.6 Henderson +0.9 Run Blocking: Glenn -1.1 Urbik -1.1 Wood -6.0 Pears -1.6 Henderson -0.6 There also are grades for penalties. The tackles were +0.2 and the others were 0.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Not against that defense...IMHO. Point taken. FWIW - Pro Football Focus rated our line's performance against the Jets as follows (from left to right): Overall Performance: Glenn -0.5 Urbik -0.6 Wood -5.9 Pears -2.1 Henderson +0.5 Pass Blocking: Glenn +0.4 Urbik +0.4 Wood 0.0 Pears -0.6 Henderson +0.9 Run Blocking: Glenn -1.1 Urbik -1.1 Wood -6.0 Pears -1.6 Henderson -0.6 There also are grades for penalties. The tackles were +0.2 and the others were 0.1 Curious to see Henderson with the highest overall grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Point taken. Curious to see Henderson with the highest overall grade. Hmm... wonder how much of that bad grade for Woods is on him and how much is on having to compensate for Pears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 what does this scoring system mean? This is their explanation: https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hmm... wonder how much of that bad grade for Woods is on him and how much is on having to compensate for Pears? Good question. I do recall one play where Wood completely whiffed on one of the DTs, who tackled the runner well behind the line of scrimmage. Granted, it's just one play, but it was really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The pass protection should have been stellar, considering that the Jets D had to have been caught off guard by ANY pass attempts. I was happy with their performance, but that was an unusual game, and the game against KC might provide a truer sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) The pass protection should have been stellar, considering that the Jets D had to have been caught off guard by ANY pass attempts. I was happy with their performance, but that was an unusual game, and the game against KC might provide a truer sample. we haven't had a run game for a month, and we've trended to a more pass heavy team with Orton at QB. Why would the Jets not expect ANY pass attempts? We're 5 and 3. This morning I woke up and realized we are what are record says we are. Were not a bad team anymore. We have a great defense and a scrappy 'O'. The season is half over. No more "samples". We go out and win, or we don't. I don't think any players performances are a shock to anyone anymore. I guarantee KC isnt taking us lightly. Edited October 27, 2014 by JaxBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I'm no expert on grading linemen, but isn't allowing pressure on 12% of pass plays a bad thing? If all five OL gave up pressure 12% of the time (assuming no overlap for the sake of argument), Orton would have guys on him 60% of the time. > I'm no expert on grading linemen, but isn't allowing pressure on 12% of pass plays a bad thing? I'm no expert either. But I've read that if an OL wins his battles on 90% of running plays, that's considered good. I'm not sure how that applies to passing plays. > If all five OL gave up pressure 12% of the time (assuming no overlap for the sake of argument), Orton would have guys on him 60% of the time. There's a better way to do this. Each OL allowing pressure 12% of the time is the same as each OL providing good pass protection 88% of the time. 0.88^5 = 0.53. Which would mean Orton would have good protection 53% of the time. 53% isn't good, but at least it's better than 40%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I'm no expert on grading linemen, but isn't allowing pressure on 12% of pass plays a bad thing? If all five OL gave up pressure 12% of the time (assuming no overlap for the sake of argument), Orton would have guys on him 60% of the time. what if all the lineman gave up their two pressures on the same two plays. Than for 15 plays the QB is UN harassed. I don't think it helps to extrapolate a statistic form a vacuum and make any assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 we haven't had a run game for a month, and we've trended to a more pass heavy team with Orton at QB. Why would the Jets not expect ANY pass attempts? We're 5 and 3. This morning I woke up and realized we are what are record says we are. Were not a bad team anymore. We have a great defense and a scrappy 'O'. The season is half over. No more "samples". We go out and win, or we don't. I don't think any players performances are a shock to anyone anymore. I guarantee KC isnt taking us lightly. I didn't say going into the game that the Jets weren't expecting any pass attempts, but by the 3rd quarter the Bills pretty much shut down the passing game and the Jets lined up expecting a run almost every play. After that, any pass was a surprise, so the pass rush was easier to handle, GET IT? Grading Urbik's pass blocking in a blowout game where they barely passed, isn't going to give you the same results as grading him in a game where the Bills have to make a comeback, or an even game where the running game is shut down, GET IT? Is that crazy? Is that confusing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Two pressures up against Sheldon Richardson? I'd say that's pretty damn good. This is really an indictment of Marrone. Urbik should have been starting from game one - ahead of Chris Williams, Richardson and Pears. Now we need to get Pears out of the lineup. We got the bye week so it's our last chance to put together a decent O-Line. Cordy Glenn is our long term answer at LT, but he's also our best OL. Can you convince him to play LG for the remainder of the season for the good of the team? Can he? I'd give him an extension with LT money if it eases his pain. I'd move Henderson to LT where he looked very comfortable in preseason. So left to right it would be Henderson, Glenn, Wood, Urbik and Hairston. I still can't get over how decent Hairston looked as a rookie. He looked better than Pears ever did at RT, certainly as good as Henderson looked at RT. If you don't want to move Glenn, can CK play guard at this point? Left to right Glenn, CK, Wood, Urbik and either Henderson or Hariston (not thrilled about two rookies in the O-Line). It was obvious Richardson had to be moved out of the starting lineup. I think it's equally obvious with Pears. That's the kind of outside the box thinking I like. Hairston actually did a good job at LT a couple of years ago too. Glenn graded very high as a guard coming out of college and the pundits were surprised when the Bills made him a tackle. This does make sense and the only reason anyone would be against it is because he is such a great tackle and because it might be detrimental to Glenn's sensibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Watching in real time it appeared that Urbik did well in pass protect.. but to make sure I went back and watched NFL Rewind and isolated the passing plays and focused on Urbik. ( analyzing the run blocking is much more difficult than analyzing pass protect so I figured I'd go with the low hanging fruit) DISCLAIMER - I'm not a coach, I don't know the play call, this is just a simple eye test review TOTAL PASS PLAYS - 17 snaps HELD HIS OWN/ APPEARED TO DO HIS JOB - 15 snaps LOST BATTLE/ GAVE UP PRESSURE - 2 snaps PLAYS OF NOTE - Urbik was beaten twice. First time he was beaten off the snap/power move.. gave up pressure on Orton - Second time he was beat on a spin move.. gave up a pressure - Q1 - Urbik and Glenn PICKED UP A STUNT!!! perfectly - None of the sacks were on Urbik CONCLUSION - Urbik looked very solid in pass protect. No sacks given up, only 2 pressures and a solid job picking up on stunts. Can't believe Marrone was so stupid about this, did he really think a rookie was that much better than a seasoned vet? And why did he wait so long? Moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 what does this scoring system mean? It means that Henderson was the only line player to grade in the positive overall at all, and it looks like C Eric Wood was the worst of the bunch. Urbik & Glenn both did get a (+0.4) in pass blocking. Henderson (+0.5) overall- Pass Blocking (+0.9) Run Blocking (-0.6) To put this grading in perspective, Cordy Glenn graded at a positive (+23.0) overall at the end of 2012 season. LG Andy Levitre also graded at a positive (+17.3) overall, and graded as PFF highest graded pass blocking guard. No Bills linemen graded in the positive for run blocking against the Jets, and that speaks volumes about the quality of the players on that line, and the coaching. I also attribute C Eric Woods poor play to the two bad OG's on either side of him, and him not being able to be comfortable enough to focus solely on his own assignments. He is a much better player then he is currently grading, as is LT Cordy Glenn. It really is kind of disheartening to realize the this HC spent his entire NFL career as a O linemen, then as an NFL O line coach, an NFL OC, and that line is the worst area of the team by far. I can't get all glowing over Urbik grading a (-0.6) overall for one performance, as I've watched this player fall on his face so many times against the better teams. IMHO upgrading both guard positions with solid players would not only immensely help in the run / pass blocking, it would also help Glenn, Wood, and Richardson along with the overall continuity a great deal. The trade deadline is today, OCT 28th, will the Bills make a move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 There were 21 pass play snaps (don't forget the four sacks!). And one or two Orton scrambles when protection broke down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Thanks much, I think it confirms what we suspected and what we saw. However, I do have one issue: You based it on 17 pass plays, well, Orton was sacked four times, and scrambled at least one time for positive yards. Those are pass plays by design, and also pass plays that weren't executed. "Obviously" something broke down on those plays, they should be included in the analysis as well. Most of the sacks cam from overloads from the outside, not the interior. That's up to our tackles, tight ends, and RB's. Urbik played a very good game against one of the best front 7's in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I didn't say going into the game that the Jets weren't expecting any pass attempts, but by the 3rd quarter the Bills pretty much shut down the passing game and the Jets lined up expecting a run almost every play. After that, any pass was a surprise, so the pass rush was easier to handle, GET IT? Grading Urbik's pass blocking in a blowout game where they barely passed, isn't going to give you the same results as grading him in a game where the Bills have to make a comeback, or an even game where the running game is shut down, GET IT? Is that crazy? Is that confusing? What crawled up your panties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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