CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Exactly. In the Bills/Pats game, the Pats ended up with 1 more total penalty and what roughly half the yards. 60 to 110 or something. But did you hear any announcer question ANY one of those Pats calls? No, but the Bills calls became national news (almost). The timing of the penalties is far far more important. You do realize most of those penalty yards came against Duke Williams. Or should that have not been called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 You do realize most of those penalty yards came against Duke Williams. Or should that have not been called? I'm still referring to the timing of several critical penalties. Duke's play in the end zone was one of the biggest bone headed plays most fans have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The refs were the main reason we lost to the Pats. I was stunned not one person was pissed about this on this board after the game. Instead it was the same reaction after almost every loss. These coaches suck, spiller sucks, our d sucks, hackett sucks on and on.... I think you missed this one twobillsdrive whiners. New England's second half possessions: TD FG TD TD Kneeldown Second half penalties when New England was on offense: - Defensive PI on Duke - Roughing the passer on Hughes - Offensive holding nullifying the TD to Gronk - Offsides on Wynn - False start by NE We lost this game in the second half, but the refs weren't the main reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) New England's second half possessions: TD FG TD TD Kneeldown Second half penalties when New England was on offense: - Defensive PI on Duke - Roughing the passer on Hughes - Offensive holding nullifying the TD to Gronk - Offsides on Wynn - False start by NE We lost this game in the second half, but the refs weren't the main reason. Roughing the passer on Hughes - weak call and would not have been flagged if it was Orton IMO. Offsides on Wynn - He wasn't off sides and it negated a fumble recovered by the Bills inside the 20 yard line. Easily a 10-14 point swing. The Bills lost by 15. And how many OBVIOUS holding calls did NOT get called on NE? They hold more than any team I have ever seen and they are never flagged for it. Any time the Bills get a long run, its called back due to holding. I dont think I have ever noticed that happen to the Pats. Edited October 17, 2014 by peterpan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan3434 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I probably did see at least 3 instances where Brady was under pressure and just lofted the ball 30-40 yards down-field, 10-15 yards out of bounds. I thought this could have been intentional grounding. Is it excused when you are throwing the ball 40 yards down-field instead of 10? But I suppose you could consider some of EJs deep balls intentional grounding even though he's legitimately trying to get it to a receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Maybe I post as multiple posters.... And I dont just mean on this board... Maybe, or you are breaking a board rule... I'd hope you use different IPs if you want to continue with that. If true, it's also true you never grew up. So the Pats being the most penalized team in the league this year proves this how? If you don't see momentum as a part of the game none, none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I probably did see at least 3 instances where Brady was under pressure and just lofted the ball 30-40 yards down-field, 10-15 yards out of bounds. I thought this could have been intentional grounding. Is it excused when you are throwing the ball 40 yards down-field instead of 10? But I suppose you could consider some of EJs deep balls intentional grounding even though he's legitimately trying to get it to a receiver. Ive seen Orton throw the Ball at the ground at the feet of the RB on screen a couple times. It is the same difference. Both are intentionally avoiding a sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Brady does it a lot. Throws balls away into the ground with no intention of completing a pass - plays that on other Quarterbacks would get called. It's known as the BRADY EXCEPTION! The NFL rules only apply to all other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I thought IG was if the ball did not pass the LOS and the QB was within the hashmarks when he threw the ball. Throwing the ball OOB is not automatically IG. If he scrambles out of the hashmarks, it's not IG. If he throws the ball past the LOS, it's not IG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I thought IG was if the ball did not pass the LOS and the QB was within the hashmarks when he threw the ball. Throwing the ball OOB is not automatically IG. If he scrambles out of the hashmarks, it's not IG. If he throws the ball past the LOS, it's not IG. If these parameters are true, and I believe they are, why is it not intentional grounding when a QB spikes the ball to stop the clock? Is there an exception in the rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 http://www.nfl.com/rulebook http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/11_2013_ForwardPass_BackPass_Fumble.pdf Section 2. Intentional Grounding RULE 8, SECTION 2, ARTICLE 1 Article 1 Definition. It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a pass that lands in the direction and the vicinity of an originally eligible receiver. Item 1: Passer or Ball Outside Tackle Position. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, who is outside, or has been outside, the tackle position throws a forward pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including when the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or endline). If the ball crosses the line of scrimmage (extended) beyond the sideline, there is no intentional grounding. If a loose ball leaves the area bordered by the tackles, this area no longer exists; if the ball is recovered, all intentional grounding rules apply as if the passer is outside this area. Item 2: Physical Contact. Intentional grounding should not be called if: (a) the passer initiates his passing motion toward an eligible receiver and then is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the pass to land in an area that is not in the direction and vicinity of an eligible receiver; or (b) the passer is out of the pocket, and his passing motion is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the ball to land short of the line of scrimmage. Item 3: Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground. Item 4: Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s). OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 42RULE 8, SECTION 3, ARTICLE 1 Penalty: For intentional grounding: (a) loss of down and 10 yards from the previous spot; or (b) loss of down at the spot of the foul; or © if the passer is in his end zone when the ball is thrown, it is a safety. See 4-7-1 for actions to conserve time inside one minute of either half. Note: If the foul occurs less than 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage, but more than half the distance to the goal line, the ball is to be placed at the spot of the pass. A.R. 8.27 A.R. 8.28 A.R. 8.29 Second-and-20 on A4. A quarterback drops back into his end zone. Just before he is tackled in his end zone, he throws the ball into the ground directly in front of him. A defensive player falls on it. Ruling: Intentional grounding. Safety. Second-and-10 on A30. Quarterback A1 throws the ball forward as he stands in the pocket on the A16 to keep from being tackled. The ball lands at the A35 with no eligible receiver in the area. Ruling: Loss of down at spot of foul as quarterback is more than 10 yards behind the line. Third-and-24 on A16. Second-and-10 on B20. Quarterback deliberately throws the ball out of bounds to stop the game clock. Ruling: The pass was not thrown away to prevent loss of yardage. A’s ball third-and-10 on B20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Roughing the passer on Hughes - weak call and would not have been flagged if it was Orton IMO. Offsides on Wynn - He wasn't off sides and it negated a fumble recovered by the Bills inside the 20 yard line. Easily a 10-14 point swing. The Bills lost by 15. And how many OBVIOUS holding calls did NOT get called on NE? They hold more than any team I have ever seen and they are never flagged for it. Any time the Bills get a long run, its called back due to holding. I dont think I have ever noticed that happen to the Pats. You can maintain the conspiracry theory if you like, but the fact remains...the refs were hardly responsible for the Pats scoring on every possession in the second half save the final kneeldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Maybe, or you are breaking a board rule... I'd hope you use different IPs if you want to continue with that. If true, it's also true you never grew up. If you don't see momentum as a part of the game none, none at all. I stopped using the others over two years ago You can maintain the conspiracry theory if you like, but the fact remains...the refs were hardly responsible for the Pats scoring on every possession in the second half save the final kneeldown. The NFL covered up the Pats cheating scandal. Its not a stretch to think the Refs help them win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I stopped using the others over two years ago The NFL covered up the Pats cheating scandal. Its not a stretch to think the Refs help them win. Am curious why someone would need multiple handles on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If these parameters are true, and I believe they are, why is it not intentional grounding when a QB spikes the ball to stop the clock? Is there an exception in the rule? There is an element of "reasonable" intention here. Just as with interpreting intentional grounding, where a receiver has to have a "reasonable" chance to catch the ball (if the QB throws from within the pocket). Spiking the ball clearly shows no intention to throw a pass. The rule was implemented because QBs just used to fling the ball to the sidelines as fast as they could to stop the clock, anyway. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 http://www.nfl.com/rulebook http://static.nfl.co...Pass_Fumble.pdf Section 2. Intentional Grounding RULE 8, SECTION 2, ARTICLE 1 Article 1 Definition. It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a pass that lands in the direction and the vicinity of an originally eligible receiver. Item 1: Passer or Ball Outside Tackle Position. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, who is outside, or has been outside, the tackle position throws a forward pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including when the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or endline). If the ball crosses the line of scrimmage (extended) beyond the sideline, there is no intentional grounding. If a loose ball leaves the area bordered by the tackles, this area no longer exists; if the ball is recovered, all intentional grounding rules apply as if the passer is outside this area. Item 2: Physical Contact. Intentional grounding should not be called if: (a) the passer initiates his passing motion toward an eligible receiver and then is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the pass to land in an area that is not in the direction and vicinity of an eligible receiver; or (b) the passer is out of the pocket, and his passing motion is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the ball to land short of the line of scrimmage. Item 3: Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground. Item 4: Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s). OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 42RULE 8, SECTION 3, ARTICLE 1 Penalty: For intentional grounding: (a) loss of down and 10 yards from the previous spot; or (b) loss of down at the spot of the foul; or © if the passer is in his end zone when the ball is thrown, it is a safety. See 4-7-1 for actions to conserve time inside one minute of either half. Note: If the foul occurs less than 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage, but more than half the distance to the goal line, the ball is to be placed at the spot of the pass. A.R. 8.27 A.R. 8.28 A.R. 8.29 Second-and-20 on A4. A quarterback drops back into his end zone. Just before he is tackled in his end zone, he throws the ball into the ground directly in front of him. A defensive player falls on it. Ruling: Intentional grounding. Safety. Second-and-10 on A30. Quarterback A1 throws the ball forward as he stands in the pocket on the A16 to keep from being tackled. The ball lands at the A35 with no eligible receiver in the area. Ruling: Loss of down at spot of foul as quarterback is more than 10 yards behind the line. Third-and-24 on A16. Second-and-10 on B20. Quarterback deliberately throws the ball out of bounds to stop the game clock. Ruling: The pass was not thrown away to prevent loss of yardage. A’s ball third-and-10 on B20. Why is the rule such that if the QB throws the ball away while outside the pocket, it is not IG ? Why not allow the QB to throw it away while in the pocket, as long as it travels past the line of scrimmage ? Why does their have to be a receiver near by?I guess what I am saying is that a QB ought to be allowed to throw the ball away if he wishes as long as he doesn't make a travesty of the game by throwing it at his own feet when under pressure. For another thread I know, but they could pretty much get rid of spiking the ball by adopting the college rule of stopping the clock after 1st downs. If the league is really interested in "fantastic finishes", which I know they are, this would be a common sense rule change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Why is the rule such that if the QB throws the ball away while outside the pocket, it is not IG ? Why not allow the QB to throw it away while in the pocket, as long as it travels past the line of scrimmage ? Why does their have to be a receiver near by? I guess what I am saying is that a QB ought to be allowed to throw the ball away if he wishes as long as he doesn't make a travesty of the game by throwing it at his own feet when under pressure. For another thread I know, but they could pretty much get rid of spiking the ball by adopting the college rule of stopping the clock after 1st downs. If the league is really interested in "fantastic finishes", which I know they are, this would be a common sense rule change. The rule allowing intention spikes is actually relatively new. Well, last two decades new. Back in the day, if the QB wanted to stop the clock, he had to throw the ball out of bounds. The spike rule was intended to give teams a chance to stop the clock quicker. The rule saying the QB had to be outside of the tackle box to throw the ball away was created to protect the QB but also to make it a bit harder for him to avoid sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Maybe I post as multiple posters.... And I dont just mean on this board... Yikes...you should just post under "Sybil". ANyway, looks like this thread has gone boom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO'14 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 DId anyone look at these little pictures I posted? Jets Defenders asking for Grounding, Ball 7 yards away from receiver while Brady is already on his knees. ITS GODDAMN INTENTIONAL GROUNDING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 DId anyone look at these little pictures I posted? Jets Defenders asking for Grounding, Ball 7 yards away from receiver while Brady is already on his knees. ITS GODDAMN INTENTIONAL GROUNDING! Where did the ball end up? If it was at or beyond the LOS, then it's not grounding because he's outside of the pocket. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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