Captain Hindsight Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) again you haven't said why Do I really have to? Orton isn't a good starter. This is well documented over a ten year period. He is exactly 500 as a starter. He makes some great throws but holds the ball too long at times and showed some horrible pocket awareness on Sunday. His two INTs this year are inexcusable as a ten year vet. Stared down the corner and threw it right to him? Cmon man. Shaking off the rust is not excuse. He has been throwing a football for at least 25 years, 14 of which were at a major level college program or the pros. There are plenty of things to like about Orton. He's a tough guy and makes some great throws at times. He seems to have the respect of his peers which is all well and good but at the end of the day, he is mediocre starter. Guys like Brady, Manning ect (You know, playoff QBs) are going to out duel this guy every time. You would think after Watching Fitz for almost 4 years, Bills fans would know we have a below avg starter, again. He is our best option right now and I will not dispute that. But at the end of the day, can anyone really honestly say you are happy with Kyle Orton being your starting QB? Edited October 14, 2014 by Captain Hindsight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Orton has been immensely more capable than EJ. We lost to NE because of terrible defense and terrible running game. Orton was literally all we had going for us, and he gave us a fighting chance until the Brady's final dagger TD bomb. Had EJ started we'd have been blown off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billstein22 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Do I really have to? Orton isn't a good starter. This is well documented over a ten year period. He is exactly 500 as a starter. He makes some great throws but holds the ball too long at times and showed some horrible pocket awareness on Sunday. His two INTs this year are inexcusable as a ten year vet. Stared down the corner and threw it right to him? Cmon man. Shaking off the rust is not excuse. He has been throwing a football for at least 25 years, 14 of which were at a major level college program or the pros. There are plenty of things to like about Orton. He's a tough guy and makes some great throws at times. He seems to have the respect of his peers which is all well and good but at the end of the day, he is mediocre starter. Guys like Brady, Manning ect (You know, playoff QBs) are going to out duel this guy every time. Yes, he is our best option right now and I will not dispute that. But at the end of the day, can anyone really honestly say you are happy with Kyle Orton being your starting QB? I don't think anyone is ecstatic about the situation - we're just happier than we were when EJ Manuel was playing QB. That's all. The only people on the planet who think EJ showed potential as an NFL QB live in Buffalo, NY. What prescient knowledge do the EJ advocates have that every other scout, analyst, GM, etc. fails to understand? Kyle Orton isn't great; I'd say he's mediocre to sub-par...and yet that's still a huge boost over EJ. As an aside (and I'm not using this as an argument against EJ, I just thought it was a funny story), a friend of mine was hanging out at a bar in Buffalo in July. A friend of his is buddies with Scott Chandler, who eventually happened to show up for a few drinks. At one point my friend asked him if he was confident with EJ this season, to which Scott sighed, replying, "we were better off with Fitz." He also added that the guys refer to Aaron Williams as "Pringles," because he dong is the size of a, well, you know. We sure could've used Pringles out there on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Who cares, Orton is still the best option right now. This offense is moving better with Orton and you don't see the frustration in the receivers like you did when EJ was in. The ONLY... ONLY basis for correct justification of benching EJ, although Watkins has now seen same results from both. If Orton doesnt get him involved more often sooner than later. What does it matter. Chandler was EJs guy on dump offs and Woods USED to have chemistry with Manuel. Mike Williams can work with Manuel. But as you said. Do they want to? Would they be willong to play for him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I dont disagree he is our best option. Doesn't make him a viable starter I think the only QBs I would have Orton over are as follows Geno Austin Davis (Though he might be good in a few years) Glennon/McCown Bortles (again right now) Fitz Locker/Whitehurst Cousins That puts him at 24th starter. Thats bad folks. IMO, right now he's also better than Tannehill, Palmer/Stanton and Bridgewater. I like him more than Foles too, who I view as a product of Kelly's system. Personally, I like him more than Eli and Stafford, but you can comfortably group him with those guys. So, he's a solidly middle-of-the-pack kind of qb. Which is about the best that we can hope for over the next couple of years while we draft and groom our newest qb-of-the-future. He also added that the guys refer to Aaron Williams as "Pringles," because he dong is the size of a, well, you know. We sure could've used Pringles out there on Sunday. Poor guy. His dong is the same size as a potato chip. Small, thin, brittle and salty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I thought orton played good enough to win if defense would of made some plays. Roby drops a pick six and brady holds on to it with a huges sack. Orton most of had 30 to 40 yards in offense pi penalties. I one on sammy where woods caught the ball was crap. The Robey play could have turned the game around big time...That was an easy 6...Duke's bonehead play should have been a pick as well... That's how close the Bills were to a 14 pt swing in that game...Typically though, the Bills don't make the plays they need to make vs the Pats... And the beat goes on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I don't think anyone is ecstatic about the situation - we're just happier than we were when EJ Manuel was playing QB. That's all. The only people on the planet who think EJ showed potential as an NFL QB live in Buffalo, NY. What prescient knowledge do the EJ advocates have that every other scout, analyst, GM, etc. fails to understand? Kyle Orton isn't great; I'd say he's mediocre to sub-par...and yet that's still a huge boost over EJ. My whole point is how as Bills fans are we OK with Orton starting. EJ failed, we get it and now we are still up **** creek without a paddle This is more a story of the FO failing, than Orton. I get mad when I see people saying Orton isn't the problem when he clearly isn't the solution. The FO screwed the pooch, badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Do I really have to? Orton isn't a good starter. This is well documented over a ten year period. He is exactly 500 as a starter. He makes some great throws but holds the ball too long at times and showed some horrible pocket awareness on Sunday. His two INTs this year are inexcusable as a ten year vet. Stared down the corner and threw it right to him? Cmon man. Shaking off the rust is not excuse. He has been throwing a football for at least 25 years, 14 of which were at a major level college program or the pros. There are plenty of things to like about Orton. He's a tough guy and makes some great throws at times. He seems to have the respect of his peers which is all well and good but at the end of the day, he is mediocre starter. Guys like Brady, Manning ect (You know, playoff QBs) are going to out duel this guy every time. You would think after Watching Fitz for almost 4 years, Bills fans would know we have a below avg starter, again. He is our best option right now and I will not dispute that. But at the end of the day, can anyone really honestly say you are happy with Kyle Orton being your starting QB? Yeah because that would be a horrible improvement from where the Bills have been over the last 14 years. Really, that would mean sometimes he does better and sometimes he does worse. Meaning from time to time your team might end up in the playoffs and some times they would miss them. This unrealistic belief that every team will have one of the top 10 QBs in the league insane. He has the offense moving the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I think you're going to see seven more. (Minn, NYJ, KC, Miami, NYJ -- and they get two more between Cle, *pats, Raiders, and Packers) I see us splitting with the Jets we always seem to and losing at Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Do I really have to? Orton isn't a good starter. This is well documented over a ten year period. He is exactly 500 as a starter. He makes some great throws but holds the ball too long at times and showed some horrible pocket awareness on Sunday. His two INTs this year are inexcusable as a ten year vet. Stared down the corner and threw it right to him? Cmon man. Shaking off the rust is not excuse. He has been throwing a football for at least 25 years, 14 of which were at a major level college program or the pros. There are plenty of things to like about Orton. He's a tough guy and makes some great throws at times. He seems to have the respect of his peers which is all well and good but at the end of the day, he is mediocre starter. Guys like Brady, Manning ect (You know, playoff QBs) are going to out duel this guy every time. You would think after Watching Fitz for almost 4 years, Bills fans would know we have a below avg starter, again. He is our best option right now and I will not dispute that. But at the end of the day, can anyone really honestly say you are happy with Kyle Orton being your starting QB? Well you keep saying how all these guys are better and I'm not talking about elite ones I'm talking about the rest. . You say this as if these other qbs don't make mistakes dont have picks and don't need help from defense or running game . Im trying to figure out what league are you guys watching and I'm not talking about what Orton did previously that was 3-5 years that was a different league Im talking about what are we seeing outside of the elite qbs that says Orton isn't good starter . Did you see Ryan in Atl go down to the bears def? What about the egg Russell laid after the stellar monday night game ? I could go on and on and on the facts are that everyone outside of the elite have up and down games and need help to win . This waiting for a unicorn just wont work after 15 years A ten year vet who hasnt played lives games in years and been with the team weeks shouldn't throw picks ....right there is no such thing as rust when you haven't played ? then why do they even have preseason ? why do they even practice ? This is unbelievably stupid simply because this is an argument you would only apply to Orton . What does throwing the football for 25 years have to do with anything ? This is like saying that when Victor cruz is cleared by the doctors to play he wont have to practice or take a snap he will simply be inserted into a regular season game because practice doesn't matter getting up to game doesnt matter . You guys are not that high on Orton I get it and he should have to prove himself to you and everyone else as well but these arguments that you guys are manufacturing simply do not make any sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 My whole point is how as Bills fans are we OK with Orton starting. EJ failed, we get it and now we are still up **** creek without a paddle This is more a story of the FO failing, than Orton. I get mad when I see people saying Orton isn't the problem when he clearly isn't the solution. The FO screwed the pooch, badly. No one is saying this is a great situation. Or that Orton is the longterm solution (outside of 2-3 years). Only that Orton shouldn't be the whipping boy for the fans' frustrations with the front office. Anybody that's an experienced football watcher can plainly see that Orton is playing average-to-good over his first two starts, yet there is a vocal minority that scream out "Orton sucks!" or "Orton is mediocre." No. The dude is playing pretty well and gave us a chance to win against two teams with a combined 8-4 record. I actually still have some hope of the playoffs with Orton behind center. I couldn't say the same when EJ was taking snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 My whole point is how as Bills fans are we OK with Orton starting. EJ failed, we get it and now we are still up **** creek without a paddle This is more a story of the FO failing, than Orton. I get mad when I see people saying Orton isn't the problem when he clearly isn't the solution. The FO screwed the pooch, badly. We're 3-3 not 0-6. I would reserve judgment about screwing the pooch. I don't care if we make the playoffs as a wild card and lose by 40 in the Wild Card game - this franchise needs to get into the playofss in any way shape or fashion. Orton right now gives this team the best chance to do that, thanks to the FO. I personally don't care about next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Well you keep saying how all these guys are better and I'm not talking about elite ones I'm talking about the rest. . You say this as if these other qbs don't make mistakes dont have picks and don't need help from defense or running game . Im trying to figure out what league are you guys watching and I'm not talking about what Orton did previously that was 3-5 years that was a different league Im talking about what are we seeing outside of the elite qbs that says Orton isn't good starter . Did you see Ryan in Atl go down to the bears def? What about the egg Russell laid after the stellar monday night game ? I could go on and on and on the facts are that everyone outside of the elite have up and down games and need help to win . This waiting for a unicorn just wont work after 15 years A ten year vet who hasnt played lives games in years and been with the team weeks shouldn't throw picks ....right there is no such thing as rust when you haven't played ? then why do they even have preseason ? why do they even practice ? This is unbelievably stupid simply because this is an argument you would only apply to Orton . What does throwing the football for 25 years have to do with anything ? This is like saying that when Victor cruz is cleared by the doctors to play he wont have to practice or take a snap he will simply be inserted into a regular season game because practice doesn't matter getting up to game doesnt matter . You guys are not that high on Orton I get it and he should have to prove himself to you and everyone else as well but these arguments that you guys are manufacturing simply do not make any sense Agree to disagree man. I've watched a lot of football in my life and IMO we have a mediocre QB. I would love to be proven wrong, but I don't see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfk Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Everyone on the Bills is mediocre when they lose..2 games is not a fair sample..if he is determined to be the cause for the Bills losing to Minn then i'll be shouting Tuel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Do I really have to? Orton isn't a good starter. This is well documented over a ten year period. He is exactly 500 as a starter. He makes some great throws but holds the ball too long at times and showed some horrible pocket awareness on Sunday. His two INTs this year are inexcusable as a ten year vet. Stared down the corner and threw it right to him? Cmon man. Shaking off the rust is not excuse. He has been throwing a football for at least 25 years, 14 of which were at a major level college program or the pros. There are plenty of things to like about Orton. He's a tough guy and makes some great throws at times. He seems to have the respect of his peers which is all well and good but at the end of the day, he is mediocre starter. Guys like Brady, Manning ect (You know, playoff QBs) are going to out duel this guy every time. You would think after Watching Fitz for almost 4 years, Bills fans would know we have a below avg starter, again. He is our best option right now and I will not dispute that. But at the end of the day, can anyone really honestly say you are happy with Kyle Orton being your starting QB? Brady sure outdueled Flacco all the time. Rodgers outduels Kaep all the time. Peyton outduels Wilson all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The QB played well enough yesterday for the team to win. The D did not stop NE at all in the second half. Orton is not Peyton Manning, but he is still head and shoulders above EJ at this point. No way EJ makes that TD throw to Hogan or the two point conversion throw to Woods. It wasn't his fault the Bills lost yesterday, it was the D. The offense played well enough to overcome the two Orton turnovers in the first half. If the D could have stopped NE a couple more times in the second half, it would have been a different game. Come back and talk to me in two weeks when we are 5-3 and Orton is 3-1. He is so much better than EJ it isn't even funny. No way EJ makes that TD throw to Hogan yesterday or the two point conversion to Woods. Those are throws EJ just isn't capable of making. Orton kept us in the game, it was the D that failed us yesterday. We were never... NEVER in that game. It was just a matter of time before Brady and the pats woke up. Its not going to work trying to convince anyone Orton kept us in the game. Chandler and Robert Woods kept us in the game. And thats because of their tenacious physicality. Orton was off. Accuracy wasnt there it was all about the receiver tenacity. To say flat out EJ definitely cant make a throw is false. Woods went and got that conversion. WENT AND GOT IT. That play started and ended with Woods. See the bears game. Mike Williams went and got that high ball that was placed right. Woods went and got that jump ball and had a nice gain after the reception. Im am sure you dont remember the pin point ball EJ threw to Chandler on the sidelines in the Dolphins game. Or the ball that Grimes broke up that against anyone else was a touchdown I CHALLENGE you to provide footage of Orton bootlegging to the right and throwing an 80 YD td across his body. I am not saying that ej is better than Orton or the other way around. But I know for a fact that there are things that EJ can do. I wills concede that the BEST play orton made was changing the play on the conversion. Facts are... EJ led offenses beat the Bears, who we were supposed to lose to. And a Dolphins team fresh off of euphoria of beating NE. Orton beat a team who had 3 missed field goals and missing the most dynamic offensive player in the league. BARELY. And lost to the Pats who started very late. He BETTER beat Minnesota and a more than likely 1-6 Jets team. 3and1 is an ooooooooook weeee moment.he better do better than that. I dont want EJ playing this year. I want him to learn. But this revelation that Orton is way better is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfk Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The management is mediocre for the QB situation but so are all the other team managements that sit home and watch the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Everyone on the Bills is mediocre when they lose..2 games is not a fair sample..if he is determined to be the cause for the Bills losing to Minn then i'll be shouting Tuel! Ditto this, except I'll want EJ back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 We were never... NEVER in that game. It was just a matter of time before Brady and the pats woke up. Its not going to work trying to convince anyone Orton kept us in the game. Chandler and Robert Woods kept us in the game. And thats because of their tenacious physicality. Orton was off. Accuracy wasnt there it was all about the receiver tenacity. To say flat out EJ definitely cant make a throw is false. Woods went and got that conversion. WENT AND GOT IT. That play started and ended with Woods. See the bears game. Mike Williams went and got that high ball that was placed right. Woods went and got that jump ball and had a nice gain after the reception. Im am sure you dont remember the pin point ball EJ threw to Chandler on the sidelines in the Dolphins game. Or the ball that Grimes broke up that against anyone else was a touchdown I CHALLENGE you to provide footage of Orton bootlegging to the right and throwing an 80 YD td across his body. I am not saying that ej is better than Orton or the other way around. But I know for a fact that there are things that EJ can do. I wills concede that the BEST play orton made was changing the play on the conversion. Facts are... EJ led offenses beat the Bears, who we were supposed to lose to. And a Dolphins team fresh off of euphoria of beating NE. Orton beat a team who had 3 missed field goals and missing the most dynamic offensive player in the league. BARELY. And lost to the Pats who started very late. He BETTER beat Minnesota and a more than likely 1-6 Jets team. 3and1 is an ooooooooook weeee moment.he better do better than that. I dont want EJ playing this year. I want him to learn. But this revelation that Orton is way better is nonsense. lol. ok. that's right, EJ beat the world by himself. Him and his 19.8 QBR, barely breaking 200yds passing per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I think you're going to see seven more. (Minn, NYJ, KC, Miami, NYJ -- and they get two more between Cle, *pats, Raiders, and Packers) Man I hope you're right. I just can't get there. I think we split with the Jets and we should be the Raiders (although we are playing there and they are not likely to go 0-16. Other than that rest of the games will be tough. We should be able to beat either Minnesota or KC, I doubt we beat both. Cleveland is going to be a difficult game, since it's home I think we have a shot. Denver, GB and NE are all guaranteed losses. So, we beat Jets, Raiders, and Minnesota, Lose to Miami, Jets, NE, GB, KC and Denver. That leaves the Cleveland game. a win gets us to 7 total. Edited October 14, 2014 by Maddog69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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