Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I'd rather see Urbik in there than Hairston. Playing a long-time OT at guard is the current problem; one that I don't want to see repeated. This went back and looked at Pears vs Houston.....only 4 negative plays. Dudes, I'm not sure what you're calling negative plays, but I don't think they tell the whole story here. The problem at guard isn't limited to major-league jailbreaks - missed the assignment, missed a stunt, just plain got "sonned". The problem is lack of positive production - opening holes and pulling effectively on run plays Edited October 8, 2014 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 The INformation you seek is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Maybe Whaley will trade for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Do you think that Whaley will trade for one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 The guard play is the big issue right now. It needs to be fixed, but other than maybe putting Urbik back in the line-up, it does not seem we have many good options at this point. correct. the group is the group from here on out. No upgrades possible because 10 other teams have the same problems, and 2 to 3 OLine guys hurt besides. We are actually in decent shape b/c at least our OL guys are standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Several posters have said they think Richardson will be good, even very good, with time. Why do you say that? He may be big, tough and play hard, but from what little I've seen, he's constantly being beaten. It looks like he simply isn't quick enough and doesn't have good enough balance to play guard in the NFL. Only when someone runs directly at him does he seem to do ok. But I haven't seen the all-22 reviews, so I defer to those who have or who have paid close attention to line play. Is there really reason to hope, or is it more of the "E.J. has all the tools to be a hall of fame qb" type pie in the sky? I'm a little more hopeful about Henderson, since he plays low for a huge man and does seem to have good balance and lateral movement. When he gets beat, it seems to twists and stunts. He looks clueless, but those plays are hard to defend and depend a lot on good communication with the guard next door, which happens to be the worst tackle in the NFL, according to PFF. Anyway, I'd like to hear why folks are up on Richardson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandemonium Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 > Marrone must like seeing Pears get blown up every game on numerous occasions. For whatever reason, Marrone has been acting as though Pears is the apple of his eye. At some point, he needs to admit that putting Pears at RG has not been fruitful. Orange I glad you didn't say banana! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Several posters have said they think Richardson will be good, even very good, with time. Why do you say that? He may be big, tough and play hard, but from what little I've seen, he's constantly being beaten. It looks like he simply isn't quick enough and doesn't have good enough balance to play guard in the NFL. Only when someone runs directly at him does he seem to do ok. But I haven't seen the all-22 reviews, so I defer to those who have or who have paid close attention to line play. Is there really reason to hope, or is it more of the "E.J. has all the tools to be a hall of fame qb" type pie in the sky? I'm a little more hopeful about Henderson, since he plays low for a huge man and does seem to have good balance and lateral movement. When he gets beat, it seems to twists and stunts. He looks clueless, but those plays are hard to defend and depend a lot on good communication with the guard next door, which happens to be the worst tackle in the NFL, according to PFF. Anyway, I'd like to hear why folks are up on Richardson. Richardson's deficiencies have been in pass blocking, not so much in the run game, where he's more than held his own based on what I've seen (both in-game and on A22). I'm not surprised he's struggled pass blocking, for 2 reasons: 1) He's only played 2 years of OG, prior to that he was an OT, and as we're seeing with Pears, it takes time to adjust to how limited the space is and how much quicker things happen inside. 2) He's about 15 lbs overweight. If he gets himself in shape during the offseason, his mobility will be much better. As for Henderson, most of the stunts aren't as much his fault as Pears'. Henderson has, for the most part, been pretty good at passing his defender across the face exchange, but Pears' inability to redirect in traffic and pick up the passed defender has been crippling. This may be a bit of a shameless plug, but I've been keeping an open thread on this and other important points of OL play, linking to posts from Football Outsiders' Ben Muth (my favorite OL film reviewer) where he covers a lot of this type of stuff. I should be adding another update today, so it's worth a look if you want to discuss this stuff further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 This Dudes, I'm not sure what you're calling negative plays, but I don't think they tell the whole story here. The problem at guard isn't limited to major-league jailbreaks - missed the assignment, missed a stunt, just plain got "sonned". The problem is lack of positive production - opening holes and pulling effectively on run plays I agree. 4 negative plays for pears? He must mean plays where pears touches no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Richardson's deficiencies have been in pass blocking, not so much in the run game, where he's more than held his own based on what I've seen (both in-game and on A22). I'm not surprised he's struggled pass blocking, for 2 reasons: 1) He's only played 2 years of OG, prior to that he was an OT, and as we're seeing with Pears, it takes time to adjust to how limited the space is and how much quicker things happen inside. 2) He's about 15 lbs overweight. If he gets himself in shape during the offseason, his mobility will be much better. As for Henderson, most of the stunts aren't as much his fault as Pears'. Henderson has, for the most part, been pretty good at passing his defender across the face exchange, but Pears' inability to redirect in traffic and pick up the passed defender has been crippling. This may be a bit of a shameless plug, but I've been keeping an open thread on this and other important points of OL play, linking to posts from Football Outsiders' Ben Muth (my favorite OL film reviewer) where he covers a lot of this type of stuff. I should be adding another update today, so it's worth a look if you want to discuss this stuff further. This is the kind of quality post/response that keeps me coming back to this site. Thanks. I'll look for the Muth posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousetrap08 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Put a blocking dummy out there at guard couldn't be much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Trade Spiller for a good G. I think Spiller's production could easily be replaced, especially with an improvement at G. Spiller doesn't help us win too much and the play of our Gs may cost us the playoffs. Spiller is likely gone in the offseason so maybe make the trade now for a G that could help for a few years. I posted this exact same thing a few days ago. Most of the replies were that there really aren't too many decent guards out there on the trading block in the NFL. I would think Whaley is working like a madman these next few weeks before the trade deadline to assess the market for CJ and available guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) And he hasn't played in two years. Just sayin. So he's well rested and healthy. Edited October 9, 2014 by Dopey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 by my count, in the Detroit game negative plays ( missed block, penalties...) Richardson - 11 Pears - 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Several posters have said they think Richardson will be good, even very good, with time. Why do you say that? He may be big, tough and play hard, but from what little I've seen, he's constantly being beaten. It looks like he simply isn't quick enough and doesn't have good enough balance to play guard in the NFL. Only when someone runs directly at him does he seem to do ok. But I haven't seen the all-22 reviews, so I defer to those who have or who have paid close attention to line play. Is there really reason to hope, or is it more of the "E.J. has all the tools to be a hall of fame qb" type pie in the sky? I'm a little more hopeful about Henderson, since he plays low for a huge man and does seem to have good balance and lateral movement. When he gets beat, it seems to twists and stunts. He looks clueless, but those plays are hard to defend and depend a lot on good communication with the guard next door, which happens to be the worst tackle in the NFL, according to PFF. Anyway, I'd like to hear why folks are up on Richardson. His two starts have been agaisnt JJ Watt and Ndamakong Sung - the best two DTs in the league who aren't on the Bills. Literally every G in the league gets beaten to a pulp by those two. I am willing to give him the beni that this week and future weeks he will look much better. Plus next year he hopefully will be in better shape. He is a very athletic big man. Edited October 9, 2014 by peterpan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 His two starts have been agaisnt JJ Watt and Ndamakong Sung - the best two DTs in the league who aren't on the Bills. Literally every G in the league gets beaten to a pulp by those two. I am willing to give him the beni that this week and future weeks he will look much better. Plus next year he hopefully will be in better shape. He is a very athletic big man. Richardson had very few snaps blocking Watt (left defensive end) and Suh (left defensive tackle who matched up against Pears for most plays). Richardson is holding his own on run plays but looks awful in pass protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Two reasons come to mind: 1) When a rookie is already having trouble adjusting to the speed of the game, you want to simplify things for them; a position switch does the opposite. 2) Kouandjio's relative stiffness and immobility does not bode well for a guy that will have to pivot, pull, and redirect at guard. Interesting. How can he be expected to play OT with these mobility limitations, and why was he drafted so high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I don't think you give up on Richardson, but if Marrone continues to resist the idea of developing Kujo as a RG for the future, as in maybe next year, I can't see how the BILLS don't go after a Guard in FA and maybe Draft ANOTHER one...as for this year, as others have said, I can't see how putting Urbik in at RG can hurt and probably, given his experience, helps a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Interesting. How can he be expected to play OT with these mobility limitations, and why was he drafted so high? Because he was supposed to play RT not LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Interesting. How can he be expected to play OT with these mobility limitations, and why was he drafted so high? Well, I didn't really like him coming out of college. What I gather is that scouts feel that his strength and length will allow him to compensate for the relative lack of mobility. Outside, at OT, he has more room to position himself to receive a pass rusher and deliver a proper punch. I don't buy that--as I said I didn't like him at 'Bama. We'll see how it bears out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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