Hey Marrone - Start Bryce Brown!

[mrags]

I agree with mrags and others who think that watching CJ run up the middle for a short gain on 1^st and 2^nd down leaving us with 3^rd and 6+ is frustrating…especially when we see Fred consistently get 4-5 yards in the same situation as CJ gets 2. I think CJ’s 4 ypc this season and 5 ypc career averages are kind of misleading for how effective he really is as a RB. If he had any vision at all, he’d average way more than that. Fred’s bobbin’ and weavin’ run through traffic last week (I think it was for like 14 yards) was a thing of beauty and is the perfect example of why I think he should start or at least get more carries. CJ would have gotten maybe 3 yards out of that play.

well said. Very well said. It's not about his average per carry. It's about how misleading it is, especially in the game time situations. A 30 yard run when your either up by a few scores, or down by too many to mean anything as far as a comeback are useless. Too many times, that's when CJ gets his yards. Rarely does he break one off when the game is in the line. It's always when the defense is expecting a pass and are in prevent. Or when they have already given up because they are down by so much.

 

Comparing to Fred is bad use of a comparison IMO. But Fred (along with many other RBs in this league, not just the top 10) find ways to get those tough yards no matter what situation. They always find ways to fall forward. You think Darren McFadden isnt the only weapon on Oakland worth game planning and defending against? How bout MJD when he was on the Jags? How about either RB from the Panthers when they led the league in rushing before they even had Cam Newton? There literally dozens of examples I could find if I thought for 5 minutes but the fact is I'm pulling these off the top of my head. Good RBs are just good no matter what. They don't need those 15-30 yard runs a few times a game to bring their average up. They are grinders.

 

I'm not saying there's no use for someone like Spiller. But nobody thinks Reggie Bush is a good RB. At least not for years while he was in NO. He was considered a bust. CJ is about the same. He gives you that factor. But doesn't do it enough to make a difference in the win column.

[rfk]

Wh dont they use him like Sproles...o thats right those teams have a QB

[mrags]

Wh dont they use him like Sproles...o thats right those teams have a QB

Sproles is the exact argument that I've been saying. He's really not that good. Has only had 1 single season with over 1,000 total yards from scrimmage. He's never lit up the end zone either.

 

I don't get where people arguing that we should use him like Sproles. Why do you say that? Because he's got 2-3 years with over 500 receiving yards? If that's the case, just pay some nobody who's fast about 2 million a year to do that. Sounds like Goodwin to me. Sproles sucks at running the football. His stats prove that. Anyone to suggest otherwise are probably the same ones that think CJ is good too. Oh well, not everybody knows football that well.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/darrensproles/2506467/careerstats

[Don Beebe]

post of the month right here-----^

 

Well done

Why thank you!

[zazie]

well said. Very well said. It's not about his average per carry. It's about how misleading it is, especially in the game time situations. A 30 yard run when your either up by a few scores, or down by too many to mean anything as far as a comeback are useless. Too many times, that's when CJ gets his yards. Rarely does he break one off when the game is in the line. It's always when the defense is expecting a pass and are in prevent. Or when they have already given up because they are down by so much.

 

Comparing to Fred is bad use of a comparison IMO. But Fred (along with many other RBs in this league, not just the top 10) find ways to get those tough yards no matter what situation. They always find ways to fall forward. You think Darren McFadden isnt the only weapon on Oakland worth game planning and defending against? How bout MJD when he was on the Jags? How about either RB from the Panthers when they led the league in rushing before they even had Cam Newton? There literally dozens of examples I could find if I thought for 5 minutes but the fact is I'm pulling these off the top of my head. Good RBs are just good no matter what. They don't need those 15-30 yard runs a few times a game to bring their average up. They are grinders.

 

I'm not saying there's no use for someone like Spiller. But nobody thinks Reggie Bush is a good RB. At least not for years while he was in NO. He was considered a bust. CJ is about the same. He gives you that factor. But doesn't do it enough to make a difference in the win column.

 

Reggie Bush certainly has pretty good career numbers. Combined all purpose yards RB has had an excellent career, and he is still playing after forever.

[NDBUFFCUSEFAN]

well said. Very well said. It's not about his average per carry. It's about how misleading it is, especially in the game time situations. A 30 yard run when your either up by a few scores, or down by too many to mean anything as far as a comeback are useless. Too many times, that's when CJ gets his yards. Rarely does he break one off when the game is in the line. It's always when the defense is expecting a pass and are in prevent. Or when they have already given up because they are down by so much.

 

Comparing to Fred is bad use of a comparison IMO. But Fred (along with many other RBs in this league, not just the top 10) find ways to get those tough yards no matter what situation. They always find ways to fall forward. You think Darren McFadden isnt the only weapon on Oakland worth game planning and defending against? How bout MJD when he was on the Jags? How about either RB from the Panthers when they led the league in rushing before they even had Cam Newton? There literally dozens of examples I could find if I thought for 5 minutes but the fact is I'm pulling these off the top of my head. Good RBs are just good no matter what. They don't need those 15-30 yard runs a few times a game to bring their average up. They are grinders.

 

I'm not saying there's no use for someone like Spiller. But nobody thinks Reggie Bush is a good RB. At least not for years while he was in NO. He was considered a bust. CJ is about the same. He gives you that factor. But doesn't do it enough to make a difference in the win column.

You're a terrible poster with awful opinions. I'm just glad you can't make the team any worse by telepathy.

[BringBackFergy]

 

You're a terrible poster with awful opinions. I'm just glad you can't make the team any worse by telepathy.

Why sugar coat it?? Tell him how you really feel.

[bowery4]

with multiple SHITe coaches , multiple SHITe coordinators in the NFL he hasn't been.

Okay okay, I vote you off the island, where is that damn thread now, I need to change my vote.BTW fixed that for you.

First time in this thread. Haven't read it all,but has anyone done the math in the OP?

 

30 yarder plus 9 two yarders is 48 yards over 10 carries.

 

4.8 yards per carry.

 

That's stellar. Add in the Freddy/Dixon ground 'n' pound and we have the making of an excellent backfield. Brown replaces Freddy eventually.

 

This makes perfect sense.

Shhh we're in the middle of a crusade, don't use logic

Reggie Bush certainly has pretty good career numbers. Combined all purpose yards RB has had an excellent career, and he is still playing after forever.

After NO, he also showed he is pretty all purpose, "when used correctly". I can just hear that noise when we don't get him back and he goes on to do better than Bush. The season under Chan wasn't a fluke, I don't understand why mRagsonspiller thinks it was. Get Him In Space And Everytime He Touches The Ball He Is A Threat = a Playmaker. What this team has said it wanted more of, for quite a few years. He is misused isn't an excuse, it has been proven by his "good year". It can and should be replicated. The 4 wide looks last week (although totally against the wrong team) were the right idea. I hope we see more of FJ and CJ on the field too.

[mrags]

 

You're a terrible poster with awful opinions. I'm just glad you can't make the team any worse by telepathy.

who are you?

 

 

Okay okay, I vote you off the island, where is that damn thread now, I need to change my vote.BTW fixed that for you.

Shhh we're in the middle of a crusade, don't use logic

 

After NO, he also showed he is pretty all purpose, "when used correctly". I can just hear that noise when we don't get him back and he goes on to do better than Bush. The season under Chan wasn't a fluke, I don't understand why mRagsonspiller thinks it was. Get Him In Space And Everytime He Touches The Ball He Is A Threat = a Playmaker. What this team has said it wanted more of, for quite a few years. He is misused isn't an excuse, it has been proven by his "good year". It can and should be replicated. The 4 wide looks last week (although totally against the wrong team) were the right idea. I hope we see more of FJ and CJ on the field too.

so let's get this straight. If CJ and the Bills first 3 drives were run for 2 yards, Run for 0, pass for 6 yards (because EJ can't get it done either), then punt. Then the opponent scores on each of their first 3 drives. Were down 21-0. Then CJ in his 4th drive rips off a 35 yarder and his average is 5 yards a carry... That's supposed to be good for the team? Good for the offense? Because that's pretty much what happens. Maybe we aren't down 21-0. But the fact is, he hurts many drives because of his inconsistency.

 

Fwiw, multiple players have 1 good year and are then crap for the rest of their careers. Peyton Hillos comes to mind. Derick Anderson. There's plenty of them. Just because CJ had a fluke year doesn't mean it's ever going to happen again. And I'll continue to say that while his "good" year he produced quite a few yards he still had under 10 TDs together it takes his "good" year down just a little bit.

[BringBackFergy]

who are you?

 

so let's get this straight. If CJ and the Bills first 3 drives were run for 2 yards, Run for 0, pass for 6 yards (because EJ can't get it done either), then punt. Then the opponent scores on each of their first 3 drives. Were down 21-0. Then CJ in his 4th drive rips off a 35 yarder and his average is 5 yards a carry... That's supposed to be good for the team? Good for the offense? Because that's pretty much what happens. Maybe we aren't down 21-0. But the fact is, he hurts many drives because of his inconsistency.

 

Fwiw, multiple players have 1 good year and are then crap for the rest of their careers. Peyton Hillos comes to mind. Derick Anderson. There's plenty of them. Just because CJ had a fluke year doesn't mean it's ever going to happen again. And I'll continue to say that while his "good" year he produced quite a few yards he still had under 10 TDs together it takes his "good" year down just a little bit.

As Bowery said, stop bringing logic into this.

[mikef272002]

This is the problem with Buffalo, and the reason you/we will sit here and spin our wheels year after year letting our guys walk, moan and complain about weather the 11th pick was too high for a guy and he's playing like a 20th pick so we should get rid of him and so on, and now this.. Keep spinning your wheels Buffalo, but me personally I hope they re sign the most dynamic player in the NFL at RB and higher a new OC that can utilize it, rather than bank on letting him walk and Brown being the next McCoy..

[dave mcbride]

Sproles is the exact argument that I've been saying. He's really not that good. Has only had 1 single season with over 1,000 total yards from scrimmage. He's never lit up the end zone either.

 

I don't get where people arguing that we should use him like Sproles. Why do you say that? Because he's got 2-3 years with over 500 receiving yards? If that's the case, just pay some nobody who's fast about 2 million a year to do that. Sounds like Goodwin to me. Sproles sucks at running the football. His stats prove that. Anyone to suggest otherwise are probably the same ones that think CJ is good too. Oh well, not everybody knows football that well.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/darrensproles/2506467/careerstats

I strongly, strongly disagree with your assessment of Sproles. He's on his way to his 6th straight season with 800+ yards from scrimmage, and he's doing it as a true part time player. His career yards per catch is 9.1 (extremely high for a rb) and his career yards per carry is 5.1 (also extremely high). How does that "suck"? Plus he scores around 7 TDs on average per year (factoring in ST). Find me a third down back with that sort of consistency. And you can't leave out why he's a part time player - he's been one of the best returners of the last decade, and he returns the ball a LOT. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SproDa00.htm

Edited October 2, 2014 by dave mcbride

[BringBackFergy]

I strongly, strongly disagree with your assessment of Sproles. He's on his way to his 6th straight season with 800+ yards from scrimmage, and he's doing it as a true part time player. His career yards per catch is 9.1 (extremely high for a rb) and his career yards per carry is 5.1 (also extremely high). How does that "suck"? Plus he scores around 7 TDs on average per year (factoring in ST). Find me a third down back with that sort of consistency. And you can't leave out why he's a part time player - he's been one of the best returners of the last decade, and he returns the ball a LOT. http://www.pro-footb.../S/SproDa00.htm

So you're saying CJ could be a very good part time player when Fred and Bryce Brown need a breather?

[freeagentqb]

Spiller is Roscoe Parrish playing running back........

[Turbosrrgood]

Bryce is being redshirted this year. CJ won't be resigned this year and next year Brown will be our starting RB.

 

I think this is probably true.

[dave mcbride]

So you're saying CJ could be a very good part time player when Fred and Bryce Brown need a breather?

No.

[Maury Ballstein]

What other inactive players do tbd'ers dream about ?

 

Hear the lions have some guys we should move on.

[mrags]

 

No.

ya. I'm pretty sure that's what you just said.

 

As Bowery said, stop bringing logic into this.

i know. Crazy logic. Let's keep a guy that helps us create 3 and outs all game long except for 1 drive every other game.

 

This is the problem with Buffalo, and the reason you/we will sit here and spin our wheels year after year letting our guys walk, moan and complain about weather the 11th pick was too high for a guy and he's playing like a 20th pick so we should get rid of him and so on, and now this.. Keep spinning your wheels Buffalo, but me personally I hope they re sign the most dynamic player in the NFL at RB and higher a new OC that can utilize it, rather than bank on letting him walk and Brown being the next McCoy..

tgis makes me laugh. When we actually have good players I'll support that.

[C.Biscuit97]

What other inactive players do tbd'ers dream about ?

 

Hear the lions have some guys we should move on.

 

Silly right? The myth of Bryce Brown is greater than the myth of Kirk Cousins.

[FireChan]

We really need an earth, wind, fire and water rotation.

 

Freddy is fire cause he's passionate. Dixon is earth because he's tough. CJ is wind because he gets knocked backwards by a stiff breeze at the LOS. And Brown is water because he gets the Gatorade on the sidelines.

[dave mcbride]

ya. I'm pretty sure that's what you just said.

 

What are you talking about? Please clarify and specify. I said that Sproles is a good player who has been highly productive. If I said anything beyond that, enlighten me. I haven't even read much of this thread; I simply noted an inaccurate characterization of Sproles's productivity given the circumstances he has always played under (multiple productive backs in SD, NO, and Philly). In 2011, Sproles led the Saints in rushing with only 672 yards, yet the Saints finished sixth overall in rushing.

Edited October 2, 2014 by dave mcbride

[FireChan]

What are you talking about? Please clarify and specify. I said that Sproles is a good player who has been highly productive. If I said anything beyond that, enlighten me. I haven't even read much of this thread; I simply noted an inaccurate characterization of Sproles's productivity given the circumstances he has always played under (multiple productive backs in SD, NO, and Philly).

 

Personally, I think Sproles is a great role player. I see Sproles as Spiller's ceiling. But Sproles isn't a top 10 back or a once-in-a-decade back or any other hyperbole that so often gets attached to Spiller.

[C.Biscuit97]

Personally, I think Sproles is a great role player. I see Sproles as Spiller's ceiling. But Sproles isn't a top 10 back or a once-in-a-decade back or any other hyperbole that so often gets attached to Spiller.

 

Sproles has topped 600 yards rushing once in his career. In 4 years, Spiller has done it twice, once 1,200 yards and once 900 yards. Sproles is a better receiver but he also plays has played for far superior offensive minds in Chip Kelly and Sean Patyon.

 

Going on limb here, but I think Kelly and Payton would use Spiller a lot more effectively than Nate Hackett.

[FireChan]

Sproles has topped 600 yards rushing once in his career. In 4 years, Spiller has done it twice, once 1,200 yards and once 900 yards. Sproles is a better receiver but he also plays has played for far superior offensive minds in Chip Kelly and Sean Patyon.

 

Going on limb here, but I think Kelly and Payton would use Spiller a lot more effectively than Nate Hackett.

 

Sproles played behind the best RB in the last 15 years. Not a fair comparison.

[MarkyMannn]

Then the opponent scores on each of their first 3 drives. Were down 21-0.

 

Yeah that is definitely CJ's fault for not stopping them on any of their first 3 drives. Why isn't it FJ's fault too?

[bowery4]

Sproles has topped 600 yards rushing once in his career. In 4 years, Spiller has done it twice, once 1,200 yards and once 900 yards. Sproles is a better receiver but he also plays has played for far superior offensive minds in Chip Kelly and Sean Patyon.

 

Going on limb here, but I think Kelly and Payton would use Spiller a lot more effectively than Nate Hackett.

More logic, I must say it really is an interesting argument, I can see both sides to it but I want Spiller to stay. It's a gut feeling, one thing I always think about when these kind of arguments come up is this would I want Bill Beicheat to pick up that player and have to go against them 2 times a year? (well, maybe the Patsies* are really on a decline and this year isn't THE year that I am having that thought but) Hell no, Spiller would turn into Danny Whitehead (or whatever his name was) and gash the hell out of us.

[Tampa Bob]

First time in this thread. Haven't read it all,but has anyone done the math in the OP?

 

30 yarder plus 9 two yarders is 48 yards over 10 carries.

 

4.8 yards per carry.

 

That's stellar. Add in the Freddy/Dixon ground 'n' pound and we have the making of an excellent backfield. Brown replaces Freddy eventually.

 

This makes perfect sense.

 

Makes sense to me...but the thing is...people like mrags think that spiller's long runs shouldn't count. We'll go ahead and count them for every other rb in the league and pretend that guys like the child abuser get 5 yards every single time they touch the ball because everyone knows that he has never been known to break big runs...but when it comes to cj, we just have to throw anything over 5 yards out the window and only factor in his under 5 yard carries into his average.

 

yards are apparently less meaningful when they come in big chunks.

[KollegeStudnet]

I want more Boobie Dixon

[mrags]

 

 

Makes sense to me...but the thing is...people like mrags think that spiller's long runs shouldn't count. We'll go ahead and count them for every other rb in the league and pretend that guys like the child abuser get 5 yards every single time they touch the ball because everyone knows that he has never been known to break big runs...but when it comes to cj, we just have to throw anything over 5 yards out the window and only factor in his under 5 yard carries into his average.

 

yards are apparently less meaningful when they come in big chunks.

yards are less meaningful when the majority of runs are 0-3 yards with the occasional big gain.

 

Don't worry, I don't expect everyone to get it.

[3rdand12]

I want more Boobie Dixon

Yip !

[Tampa Bob]

yards are less meaningful when the majority of runs are 0-3 yards with the occasional big gain.

 

Don't worry, I don't expect everyone to get it.

 

Don't worry i don't get it and i don't expect to ever get it.

 

He apparently gets enough big plays to offset his meaningless short yardage gains to rank near the top every year. They have this thingy called an average. It is pretty simple math...i think it is something like the sum of the yardage gained divided by the number of carries.

 

Perhaps you should provide us with a yardage distribution by all your favorite running backs to prove your point. Otherwise, it might be kind of difficult to get us simpletons to agree with you that yards per carry is totally meaningless.

 

Maybe compare how many scoring drives have big gains against how many scoring drives only have 4 yarders or something like that. if you take the time to prove this, you will get me to think you are really cool.

[Augie]

Yip !

Do you mean "yep"? Yip is reserved for EJ, I think. Is it contagious? Oh no!!!

 

Bryce will get his chance (mostly likely next year), while keeping his miles down this year. Kind of like Fred. Low miles are almost as much of a factor as age.

[mrags]

 

 

Don't worry i don't get it and i don't expect to ever get it.

 

He apparently gets enough big plays to offset his meaningless short yardage gains to rank near the top every year. They have this thingy called an average. It is pretty simple math...i think it is something like the sum of the yardage gained divided by the number of carries.

 

Perhaps you should provide us with a yardage distribution by all your favorite running backs to prove your point. Otherwise, it might be kind of difficult to get us simpletons to agree with you that yards per carry is totally meaningless.

 

Maybe compare how many scoring drives have big gains against how many scoring drives only have 4 yarders or something like that. if you take the time to prove this, you will get me to think you are really cool.

no thanks. I'm good. Keep thinking whatever you want to think. I'll be the one in 3 years already knowing that CJ never did anything special with the exception of 1 decent to good season. You will be the one making excises for him still. Oh the thought of what CJ could do on a team that utilized him correctly. Oh the numbers he could put up if he just had a good offensive line. Of only he had a reasonable QB to take the heat off the running game. Oh, only of he hadn't had so many injuries.

 

If, if, if...

 

Keep on keepin on.

[bowery4]

Don't worry i don't get it and i don't expect to ever get it.

 

He apparently gets enough big plays to offset his meaningless short yardage gains to rank near the top every year. They have this thingy called an average. It is pretty simple math...i think it is something like the sum of the yardage gained divided by the number of carries.

 

Perhaps you should provide us with a yardage distribution by all your favorite running backs to prove your point. Otherwise, it might be kind of difficult to get us simpletons to agree with you that yards per carry is totally meaningless.

 

Maybe compare how many scoring drives have big gains against how many scoring drives only have 4 yarders or something like that. if you take the time to prove this, you will get me to think you are really cool.

 

OMG, I agree with Tampa Bob..... Mrags please don't you see the problem here? BTW, TB you should use some of the logic in your arguments in this thread and apply them to FJ. And that isn't even talking about other things FJ brings to the table (beside his yrds average).

[NDBUFFCUSEFAN]

OMG, I agree with Tampa Bob..... Mrags please don't you see the problem here? BTW, TB you should use some of the logic in your arguments in this thread and apply them to FJ. And that isn't even talking about other things FJ brings to the table (beside his yrds average).

 

+1, MRags you are coming off worse than usual here. I can almost understand not signing Spiller to a new contract and letting BB fill in but starting BB over Spiller makes 0 sense.

[Alphadawg7]

While you're in the benching mood, sit CJ as RB (let him return kicks) and get Bryce Brown in there. We need a change of pace at RB. CJ is soooo frustrating to watch. I don't know if his one 30 yard run is worth the 9 two yards runs up the middle we see every weekend. I always wanted to be patient with CJ but it's tiring.

 

Bench our most dynamic offensive weapon for a guy who fumbles a lot. Hmmmm...guess that makes sense here in these parts.

[Tampa Bob]

 

 

OMG, I agree with Tampa Bob..... Mrags please don't you see the problem here? BTW, TB you should use some of the logic in your arguments in this thread and apply them to FJ. And that isn't even talking about other things FJ brings to the table (beside his yrds average).

 

Thanks dawg. I have taken it easy on fred lately. He has been pretty good this year at times...can't expect much more.

[bowery4]

no thanks. I'm good. Keep thinking whatever you want to think. I'll be the one in 3 years already knowing that CJ never did anything special with the exception of 1 decent to good season. You will be the one making excises for him still. Oh the thought of what CJ could do on a team that utilized him correctly. Oh the numbers he could put up if he just had a good offensive line. Of only he had a reasonable QB to take the heat off the running game. Oh, only of he hadn't had so many injuries.

 

If, if, if...

 

Keep on keepin on.

 

Ah now I get you, you want to be Mr. Itoldyouso. Why are people happy doing that, I never understand....is it fun being negative Nostradamus? Feel better about yourself if you are right? If it lasts more than 4 hours, what do you do?

[Tampa Bob]

no thanks. I'm good. Keep thinking whatever you want to think. I'll be the one in 3 years already knowing that CJ never did anything special with the exception of 1 decent to good season. You will be the one making excises for him still. Oh the thought of what CJ could do on a team that utilized him correctly. Oh the numbers he could put up if he just had a good offensive line. Of only he had a reasonable QB to take the heat off the running game. Oh, only of he hadn't had so many injuries.

 

If, if, if...

 

Keep on keepin on.

 

Is there a reason you keep using the word "excises"?

[bowery4]

Thanks dawg. I have taken it easy on fred lately. He has been pretty good this year at times...can't expect much more.

Hah, good to hear. Yeah, he is hard not to like, isn't he?