Cardinals’ Dwyer in domestic violence incident: Placed on NFI List

[Rob's House]

There is a black-and-white way to deal with this issue.

 

If you are convicted of a domestic violence criminal offense, you get punished. If you are not convicted, you don't.

 

You might be surprised what can lead to a DV conviction.

[vincec]

It's a tough spot when an employer takes on justice morality and activism. Especially with a zero tolerance policy on crimes our court system struggles with for a variety of reasons including those you mention.

Hang 'em all and let God figure it out.

[3rdand12]

What's funny is that none of us know which of those scenarios is accurate, but many have already picked the one that fits our prejudice.

Way of the world my friend Rob . For better or worse . not uncommon though. and true enough.

Hard to balance upon a fence for very long .

We can only try to be open minded while the media pushes tries to push our values around .

 

There is a black-and-white way to deal with this issue.

 

If you are convicted of a domestic violence criminal offense, you get punished. If you are not convicted, you don't.

Thats seems fair enough. really it does. But the conviction rate is low because the victim has good reason to fear retaliation. Some where it's been mentioned that most 911 call never make it to court. Sounds about right. The offender says i will kill you and the children if you talk to them ( authorities ( any ) . And the offender usually seems pretty convincing at the time.

Just a horrid situation. if there is evil it lurks sometimes in the house called " Domestic Violence" .

Creating fear in someone is the ooposite of what we should be doing as people.

Think about that girl Janay Rice and her trying to keep it all quiet. fear.

 

Hang 'em all and let God figure it out.

Got my noose.

Whatcha doin satyrday about 10 am ?

Hell hang me too. Lets see who is who and what is what : )

[NoSaint]

Way of the world my friend Rob . For better or worse . not uncommon though. and true enough.

Hard to balance upon a fence for very long .

We can only try to be open minded while the media pushes tries to push our values around .

 

Thats seems fair enough. really it does. But the conviction rate is low because the victim has good reason to fear retaliation. Some where it's been mentioned that most 911 call never make it to court. Sounds about right. The offender says i will kill you and the children if you talk to them ( authorities ( any ) . And the offender usually seems pretty convincing at the time.

Just a horrid situation. if there is evil it lurks sometimes in the house called " Domestic Violence" .

Creating fear in someone is the ooposite of what we should be doing as people.

Think about that girl Janay Rice and her trying to keep it all quiet. fear.

 

 

Well, that, and of course a wide variety of other things.

[3rdand12]

Well, that, and of course a wide variety of other things.

Of course. Its no simple matter by any means , and i sure dont mean to sound like i know the equations or the answers.

But i do know when i smell something rotten. and when something is not right.

i mean that generally speaking No Saint

[NoSaint]

Of course. Its no simple matter by any means , and i sure dont mean to sound like i know the equations or the answers.

But i do know when i smell something rotten. and when something is not right.

i mean that generally speaking No Saint

 

I know, and I was primarily playing devils advocate. But while most in these accusations are probably awful people- I don't like rounding up the good ones and creating additional victims either.

 

Like I said up thread to bbf - it's certainly a tough issue. One that's tough in court yet alone for an employer that's pulling the actionable date to the accusation instead of conviction.

[Rob's House]

 

Thats seems fair enough. really it does. But the conviction rate is low because the victim has good reason to fear retaliation. Some where it's been mentioned that most 911 call never make it to court. Sounds about right. The offender says i will kill you and the children if you talk to them ( authorities ( any ) . And the offender usually seems pretty convincing at the time.

Just a horrid situation. if there is evil it lurks sometimes in the house called " Domestic Violence" .

Creating fear in someone is the ooposite of what we should be doing as people.

Think about that girl Janay Rice and her trying to keep it all quiet. fear.

 

 

It's true that this happens occasionally, but the overwhelming majority of the time it's because they've made up, she's no longer mad, and she doesn't want him to get in trouble.

[DC Tom]

This is going to pretty quickly approach a level of hypersensitivity to the issue...then completely drop off the face of the earth once everyone gets sick of it.

 

That's the problem with outrage-based "awareness" and "solutions" - outrage can't be maintained over a long term.

[Rob's House]

 

 

I know, and I was primarily playing devils advocate. But while most in these accusations are probably awful people- I don't like rounding up the good ones and creating additional victims either.

 

Like I said up thread to bbf - it's certainly a tough issue. One that's tough in court yet alone for an employer that's pulling the actionable date to the accusation instead of conviction.

 

The dirty little secret is that it's actually the other way around. While the media obsession with DV in sports is only a few minutes old, it's been going on in the justice system for years.

 

The stories about people that methodically beat women who live in constant fear are true. They're dangerous men who belong in prison and are one of the greatest fears of anyone with a daughter. They're hard to convict because the women are afraid to call the cops or testify. The problem is, in order to keep these guys from slipping through the cracks, we now cast a broad net. For every guy that fits that description there are 5-10 who are before a judge for a minor scuffle or straight up bull ****.

 

There's not really an easy answer for it. It's already become overly politicized and the policy is typically crafted by ideologues. This approach often does more harm than good.

 

To respond to the last several posts, it seems like DV is just messy. Messy to prove, messy intentions, messy incentives, kids are impacted, etc.

 

It's why the NFL should have a bright line rule based on something like a conviction, otherwise the league will be mired in the messiness of every case.

 

This is largely why I think the NFL should avoid taking on a judicial role and why responsible fans shouldn't call for them to.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Rob's House

[NoSaint]

 

 

The dirty little secret is that it's actually the other way around. While the media obsession with DV in sports is only a few minutes old, it's been going on in the justice system for years.

 

The stories about people that methodically beat women who live in constant fear are true. They're dangerous men who belong in prison and are one of the greatest fears of anyone with a daughter. They're hard to convict because the women are afraid to call the cops or testify. The problem is, in order to keep these guys from slipping through the cracks, we now cast a broad net. For every guy that fits that description there are 5-10 who are before a judge for a minor scuffle or straight up bull ****.

 

There's not really an easy answer for it. It's already become overly politicized and the policy is typically crafted by ideologues. This approach often does more harm than good.

 

I have no idea what the line is - but I've seen it fall both ways plenty. I figured "most" accusations being true was probably a safe cut for off the cuff discussion but could very well be wrong.

 

As JR notes it's a messy situation all around..... and the nfl may simply end up making it messier instead if helping.

Edited September 18, 2014 by NoSaint

[Rob's House]

 

 

I have no idea what the line is - but I've seen it fall both ways plenty. I figured "most" accusations being true was probably a safe cut for off the cuff discussion but could very well be wrong.

 

As JR notes it's a messy situation all around..... and the nfl may simply end up making it messier instead if helping.

 

I'd say that's almost a certainty.

[3rdand12]

It's true that this happens occasionally, but the overwhelming majority of the time it's because they've made up, she's no longer mad, and she doesn't want him to get in trouble.

mmmm not sure .

you mean after she was punched and or threatened. This is not a yelling match in any of these situations or just a broken vase.

Thats not Domestic Violence. Thats a spat .

You are lucky to not know alot about these matters i hope ?

[Rob's House]

mmmm not sure .

you mean after she was punched and or threatened. This is not a yelling match in any of these situations or just a broken vase.

Thats not Domestic Violence. Thats a spat .

You are lucky to not know alot about these matters i hope ?

 

I know more about them than I'd like to. Anyone who prosecutes these cases will tell you the same thing.

[YoloinOhio]

@SeanCablinasian: He is not a smart man… RT @thebiglead: Jonathan Dwyer does not support "domestic violets" http://t.co/XbtHBZ3pUl

[3rdand12]

But i think i would prefer not to take this any further Rob. Its certainly not something to argue ( you are not of course ). But the NFL situation has opened up the Box again for a short while.

It will be closed soon enough. and life will go on.

I wont soapbox this one even though i have a gun the fight. Societal culture could use a shift . If the NfL has any accidental influence upon that in a positive manner than i am all for it

 

I know more about them than I'd like to. Anyone who prosecutes these cases will tell you the same thing.

I was worried that might be the case Rob. Thanks for the dialogue ! Edited September 18, 2014 by 3rdand12

[BringBackFergy]

So your first reaction to another woman having the **** beat out of her is that it was probably fabricated. You sir, are a scumbag.

Not sure how you interpreted my comments as a Call to Arms against females but you are entitled to call me a scumbag if you choose. I feel bad for any family who has to go through this...the women and children especially. You are living under a rock, though, if you think some women don't use orders of protection (or the justice system in general) as a sword rather than a shield. I am in no position to comment on the veracity of this particular victim....nor was that the point above.I can conclusively state, however, that yes...some DV cases have no merit and are filed for an assortment of reasons (drug use by both, revenge, financial reasons, custody, etc). Any man who abuses a woman or child loses my respect; equally, any man, woman or child who abuses our system of justice (those who manipulate the system) for individual gain can cause significant hardship as well.

[Numark3]

It's true that this happens occasionally, but the overwhelming majority of the time it's because they've made up, she's no longer mad, and she doesn't want him to get in trouble.

 

I love you and other posters talking out of your ass (jumping to conclusions?)

 

Domestic violence does NOT have low conviction rates at all. That was false. In fact, domestic violence cases reasonably high conviction rates. As for you the whole "made-up with each other" BS you just said, most jurisdictions have a no-drop policy meaning they don't drop charges just because the victim no longer wants to go through with charges. So what you said was extremely false. The reason most domestic violence cases don't go to trial (as with any other type of crime), is because of plea deals.

 

 

I just love the irony of poster A saying something false, and Rob's house coming any then giving false reasons as to why the wrong fact is true. This coming from the guy who never wants to jump to conclusions.

[Rob's House]

 

 

I love you and other posters talking out of your ass (jumping to conclusions?)

 

Domestic violence does NOT have low conviction rates at all. That was false. In fact, domestic violence cases reasonably high conviction rates. As for you the whole "made-up with each other" BS you just said, most jurisdictions have a no-drop policy meaning they don't drop charges just because the victim no longer wants to go through with charges. So what you said was extremely false. The reason most domestic violence cases don't go to trial (as with any other type of crime), is because of plea deals.

 

 

I just love the irony of poster A saying something false, and Rob's house coming any then giving false reasons as to why the wrong fact is true. This coming from the guy who never wants to jump to conclusions.

 

Where was it you said you got your law degree, Chester?

[Numark3]

Where was it you said you got your law degree, Chester?

 

Whats this have to do with law? Its a fact, go Google domestic violence conviction rates and look at the statistics. How about you reply to the substance of my posts and not try to use the same old insults. Show me those low conviction rates and then explain why they are so low again because they couple "made-up"

 

 

PS: You can't because the conviction rates are high. And the BS you made up about couples making up so charges dont go through is just false. You are are the most ignorant type of person. Someone who is so stubborn with a odd viewpoint that has some truth to it, but can't understand why no one can agree with him and why everyone else is stupid. You feel like everyone else is sheep and just following the herd, while you and few others see the "truth." Its not because you are the smartest person in the room, its because you can;t communicate anything properly. Your communication skills are so poor, its as if you are you were a troll on a message board very few people agree with. I'm done with this thread, PM me more if you want, I still won't respond

Edited September 18, 2014 by Crayola64

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I love how she takes it as a given that the NFL should seek to purge its ranks of anyone classified as a "domestic abuser." One must wonder if abusers of the non-domestic variety are acceptable. And what level of "domestic abuse" triggers the "zero tolerance" policy.

 

They've painted themselves into an unworkable corner with knee jerk reactions to overhyped stories and it's looking like it's soon to hit the fan.