Comparing EJs 1st 10 Games to Kelly's

[Canadian Bills Fan]

So your saying EJ is on track to be the greatest QB in Bills history?

 

 

CBF

[todd]

So that's the NFL, which is actually his second stint in pro football. Jimbo had 3 years of pro football experience by then. Not a good comparison.

 

I was curious how much better Kelly's 10 games were vs EJs.

 

Jim Kelly: Age 26 - 3 wins 7 losses, 174/284 61.27%, 2200 yards, 13 tds, 12 ints, 27 rushes 126 yards 0 tds

EJ Manuel: Age 23 - 4 wins 6 losses, 180/306 58.82%, 1972 yards, 11 tds, 9 ints, 53 rushes 186 yards 2 tds

[JPS]

This is what we Bills fans do. We'll justify just about anything to hang on to a sliver of hope. In a way pathetic. In a way admirable. Kelly's first 2 years were lost due to some really bad defenses and lack of overall talent. But you could see he was special. I remember him throwing a 50 yard pass against a strong wind down the right sideline for a TD. In that moment everyone was just speechless for a second, then wild the next. I'm not sure EJ has the ability to surprise and perform at that level.

 

I'm a firm believer that great shows up great. Kelly was awesome from the get-go, even though team stats may say otherwise. EJ hasn't surprised me yet. I take it back...when he ran out of bounds on Saturday 5 yards behind the LOS, I was surprised he didn't throw it away.

 

These two QBs will never be compared to each other anywhere other than this board. Ever.

[OldTimer1960]

 

 

AMEN

 

 

 

Kelly was helluva better when he had an ALL-PRO offensive line protecting him, specifically Hull, Ritcher and John Davis.

 

Wait, in another thread several posted that the OL and QB play are independent. So you meant to say that a good OL can help a QB?

[zow2]

Even though he threw against Tampa's 2nd stringers, i thought EJ had a couple great throws in the 3rd Qtr. The kind of passes I have not seen him complete up to that point. Down the middle of the field, 20+ yds and before the receiver turned around. If he can start having the confidence to make those passes and complete a few per game, I think his overall game will improve tremendously. That's the only shred of hope I can see for EJ right now. It's just hope. Defenses don't respect his downfield game right now so they cheat up and pressure the hell out of him (and he makes poor decisions under pressure). Kelly made great decisions under pressure....so do Brady, Manning, Rodgers and all the elite's of the game.

EJ has to get teams to respect his downfield game.

[DC Greg]

This is what we Bills fans do. We'll justify just about anything to hang on to a sliver of hope. In a way pathetic. In a way admirable. Kelly's first 2 years were lost due to some really bad defenses and lack of overall talent. But you could see he was special. I remember him throwing a 50 yard pass against a strong wind down the right sideline for a TD. In that moment everyone was just speechless for a second, then wild the next. I'm not sure EJ has the ability to surprise and perform at that level.

 

I'm a firm believer that great shows up great. Kelly was awesome from the get-go, even though team stats may say otherwise. EJ hasn't surprised me yet. I take it back...when he ran out of bounds on Saturday 5 yards behind the LOS, I was surprised he didn't throw it away.

 

These two QBs will never be compared to each other anywhere other than this board. Ever.

 

Well said. Maybe EJ will get better. We all hope so. But to say "Look, these particular set of stats are similar to our greatest player in franchise history. That means he could also be great," is just such a stretch. Anything's POSSIBLE, but I agree that we're reaching a little bit here to keep up hope. Not saying burn the EJ experiment to the ground yet, but let's not pretend he has resembled JK in any form or fashion yet.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

Well said. Maybe EJ will get better. We all hope so. But to say "Look, these particular set of stats are similar to our greatest player in franchise history. That means he could also be great," is just such a stretch.

Except it doesn't mean he could be great. It means give him time to see who he really is because we don't know.

[26CornerBlitz]

Except it doesn't mean he could be great. It means give him time to see who he really is because we don't know.

 

This is the primary point of the thread.

[Dean Cain]

This is the primary point of the thread.

'

 

Precisely. I wonder how much patience our fanbase has left. It took Kelly 3 years to get into the playoffs. Can our fanbase handle another developmental year? There's no doubt that EJ will be better at age 24 than 23, and 25 than 24. It will take time for a guy with his skillset to develop. He's raw, but has the arm strength, maturity and work ethic to succeed. His skills and ability are higher than anyone since Kelly retired.

[qblax16]

I think it's fair to compare, just to calm down us fans. Jury is out on EJ still, but I like the posts that can bring us back down to earth on expectations. Good post.

[milehiLou]

Kelly had three warm up years in the DB deficient USFL (and Kent Hull).

[1billsfan]

'

 

Precisely. I wonder how much patience our fanbase has left. It took Kelly 3 years to get into the playoffs. Can our fanbase handle another developmental year? There's no doubt that EJ will be better at age 24 than 23, and 25 than 24. It will take time for a guy with his skillset to develop. He's raw, but has the arm strength, maturity and work ethic to succeed. His skills and ability are higher than anyone since Kelly retired.

 

I'm of the opinion that Manuel had a good season last year considering he was a "boom/bust" raw rookie QB being coached by a rookie HC and OC. I remember this board discussing that Manuel would have ups and downs and that's exactly the kind of season he had in 2013. Yet he gets the JP Losman treatment here. Fans talk about him as if he already looks like a bust. I guess he didn't have that one "lights out", 4 TD game in 2013 so maybe that's where the heavy negativity comes from. What Manuel did show was the ability to perform from under pressure like in the Panther and Atlanta games. I'll take that over the 4 TD blowout performance any day.

 

What I want to see in 2014 is Manuel being allowed by his coaches to throw the ball downfield, challenge DBs, and yes, allowed to throw occasional interceptions forcing the issue like Kelly did when he was a gunslinger. Manuel will not get to the next level until he can connect on a somewhat consistent basis with Watkins, Williams and Woods deep. Consistent enough that defenses are scared of getting burned deep. The sooner this happens, the sooner the running game will open up, the sooner this offense becomes feared and the sooner we can start talking about the Bills making a trip back to the playoffs.

[jsswansonjr]

The one trait that all great QB's have is their ability to perform under pressure, has EJ demonstrated this? Its a quality that coaches have not figured out how to teach. You either have it or you do not.

[KOKBILLS]

 

 

This. There are pretty much two distinct camps on this board when it comes to EJ and most of us, regardless of what camp we are in, are not likely to be persuaded to believe otherwise at this point in time. The truth is that there isn't a single person who can say, with any degree of certainty, how good or bad EJ may be. We will all have a better idea at the end of the season. IMHO, there just doesn't seem to be enough evidence at the present time to give an informed opinion either way. While I do believe we are all entitled to our opinion, and this is certainly the place to give it, it seems, regarding EJ, this forum has just devolved into thread after thread after thread of the same points...over and over...ad nauseum...

Agree 100%!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

The one trait that all great QB's have is their ability to perform under pressure, has EJ demonstrated this? Its a quality that coaches have not figured out how to teach. You either have it or you do not.

He had two game winning drives in his nine finished games as a rookie, and he is one of only two QBs in NCAA history IIRC to have been the winning QB in four Bowl games. So there is that.

[jester43]

I thought Kelly had 2 years in the USFL not three. They didn't play in 85, right? He would have played for NJ, but there was no season.

 

Of course the 2 years helped him a lot.

 

I posted KElly's 1stBills season on pg4 of this thread and was attempting to post EJs rookie hihlights as well (also from youtube) but my computer isgoing wacky and I can't.

 

why doesn't someone post them side by side and everyone can post what they see?

 

For the most part, I see Kelly making better and tougher throws into tighter coverage. A lot of EJ highlights were wide open throws that half the people reading this could have made.

 

I don't see EJ even attempting some of the passes JK nailed (HOPEFULLY this year that changes) It looks to me like the game was too fast for him last year.

[OldTimer1960]

 

 

ok, i'll go one further:

who had a 10-5 record through his first 15 starts, went 257 for 421 (61 percent) with 12 TDs and 10 interceptions?

 

why Trent Edwards, of course.

 

jw

The point wasn't that EJ Manuel will be as good as Jim Kelly. It was that even HOFer Kelly went through growing pins and improved - hence it isn't unreasonable to expect that EJ Manuel needs on the job time before being finally judged - I don't think that there was any more implied than that.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

ok, i'll go one further:

who had a 10-5 record through his first 15 starts, went 257 for 421 (61 percent) with 12 TDs and 10 interceptions?

 

why Trent Edwards, of course.

 

jw

 

I respect you for coming here but man, you are on a EJ crusade. Are you and Tim Graham high fiving behind the scenes celebrating who called a 23 year old qb a bust first?

 

I'm only speaking for myself but I like my writers to be objective and my reporter to report facts. For whatever reason, sports journalism has lost a lot if professionalism over the years. We have a bunch of writers who want to be famous. I miss the days of Allen Wilson and Larry Felser.

[Kelly the Dog]

I thought Kelly had 2 years in the USFL not three. They didn't play in 85, right? He would have played for NJ, but there was no season.

 

Of course the 2 years helped him a lot.

 

It's somewhat confusing. Kelly was away from college three calendar years, but played only two full seasons in the USFL. So he was three years older, and came to the Bills three years after he was drafted. Drafted in 83. Came to the Bills for the 86 season. But played just two years in the USFL on the field.

[Ronin]

I was curious how much better Kelly's 10 games were vs EJs.

 

Jim Kelly: Age 26 - 3 wins 7 losses, 174/284 61.27%, 2200 yards, 13 tds, 12 ints, 27 rushes 126 yards 0 tds

EJ Manuel: Age 23 - 4 wins 6 losses, 180/306 58.82%, 1972 yards, 11 tds, 9 ints, 53 rushes 186 yards 2 tds

 

Different league back then.

 

The average of the top-20 QBs back then was around 3,200 yards.

 

The average of the top-20 QBs last season was over 4,100 yards, nearly 1,000 yards more.

 

Apples to oranges. It's also a lot easier to throw TDs in this era where the league has done everything it can to enhance the passing game.