ESPN: Spygate, Did it Really Matter?

[reddogblitz]

Probably because it wasn't "technically" illegal and the Patriots* were better at it than all the other teams who were also involved/not caught.

 

How was this not "technically" illegal?

 

Page 105 of the 2007 NFL "Game Operations Manual" states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

 

Not only that, the league specifically notified teams that year in the off season not to do this and they did it anyway.

 

It's blatantly illegal.

Edited August 8, 2014 by reddogblitz

[jumbalaya]

They should have been stripped of the Super Bowl.

[CountryCletus]

Stripper??? I want some!

[filthymcnasty08]

Probably because it wasn't "technically" illegal and the Patriots* were better at it than all the other teams who were also involved/not caught.

 

Or….

 

It was a gigantic threat to the integrity of the game/league and could not be allowed to be investigated further or open for discussion in the media. The ramifications of a loss of integrity reach far and wide, billions are lost, and all sorts of football-dependant economies are doomed. I would imagine that there were many owners that would have otherwise loved to have seen Kraft/Bellicheat fry…but as soon as they understood that you can't burn down one house without burning the entire neighborhood down…..they all decided that they like their situations and there's no need to rock the boat.

 

and if were getting strippers, count me in as well

Edited August 9, 2014 by filthymcnasty08

[Doc]

The evidence suggests it did matter.

[Ronin]

 

 

No Super Bowls since Spygate means it mattered.

 

 

 

That's it right there. Belicheat is supposed to be some sort of genius coach, well then how come with record setting offenses and far better offenses than he had while he was cheating can he not score significantly more points in the playoffs as his teams did when they won the SBs?

 

We're not talking about the D here, we're talking about the O.

 

In conference championships and Super Bowls from through '06 his Pats averaged 28 ppg and the D averaged 20 PA.

 

In conference championsjhips and Super Bowls from '07 and after his Pats averaged 17 ppg and his D averaged 23 PA, and his offenses have been significantly better.

 

Overall his teams have performed better in the regular season. The only explanations are that the cheating helped or that all of a sudden a lot of NFL coaches all of a sudden got better than Belicheat who was viewed as a legend in the making at the time.

 

Say what his apologists will say, but there's always going to be an asterisk next to his name unless he can win one clean. Once Brady retires he's finished. He's never been a good coach without Brady.

[JohnC]

 

 

That's it right there. Belicheat is supposed to be some sort of genius coach, well then how come with record setting offenses and far better offenses than he had while he was cheating can he not score significantly more points in the playoffs as his teams did when they won the SBs?

 

We're not talking about the D here, we're talking about the O.

 

In conference championships and Super Bowls from through '06 his Pats averaged 28 ppg and the D averaged 20 PA.

 

In conference championsjhips and Super Bowls from '07 and after his Pats averaged 17 ppg and his D averaged 23 PA, and his offenses have been significantly better.

 

Overall his teams have performed better in the regular season. The only explanations are that the cheating helped or that all of a sudden a lot of NFL coaches all of a sudden got better than Belicheat who was viewed as a legend in the making at the time.

 

Say what his apologists will say, but there's always going to be an asterisk next to his name unless he can win one clean. Once Brady retires he's finished. He's never been a good coach without Brady.

 

BB is going to be a first ballot HOF coach. He is recognized as being the driving force for one of the most successful franchises in the modern era of the league.

 

The Bills have been out of the playoffs for fourteen consecutive years, and still counting . Over the last decade they have barely had one or two winning records. Fans from a historically losing franchise shouldn't waste their energies criticizing a franchise that is one of the most successful franchises in the history of the league compared to a Bills franchise that has been one of the worst performing franchises over the past generation.

 

Winners win and losers make excuses. Every year this topic is reprised. This exhibition of jeolousy and excuse making is not only pathetic, it is embarrassing.

 

 

[reddogblitz]

[/b]

 

BB is going to be a first ballot HOF coach. He is recognized as being the driving force for one of the most successful franchises in the modern era of the league.

 

The Bills have been out of the playoffs for fourteen consecutive years, and still counting . Over the last decade they have barely had one or two winning records. Fans from a historically losing franchise shouldn't waste their energies criticizing a franchise that is one of the most successful franchises in the history of the league compared to a Bills franchise that has been one of the worst performing franchises over the past generation.

 

Winners win and losers make excuses. Every year this topic is reprised. This exhibition of jeolousy and excuse making is not only pathetic, it is embarrassing.

 

Thanks for the information Mrs. Belicheck.

 

I'm not sure what the Bills putrid record over the past 14 years (and counting) has to do with a discussion if Little Billy cheated or not, but thanks for telling us about it anyway.

 

It's really not a question if he did or not, the principal said he did and handed him the harshest detention ever given out by him.

 

You did indeed teach him well, that the ends justify the means and "it's only cheating if you get caught".

 

[BuffaloBill]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-patriots-opponents-wont-let-spygate-die-but-did-it-really-matter/

 

Not to beat this into the ground, but people still asking these questions all these years later means that it mattered.

 

Opponents considering them "cheaters" almost a decade later means that it mattered.

 

No Super Bowls since Spygate means it mattered.

 

I know people on here think it didnt matter though...

 

If it didn't matter they would not have done it for so long. I realize I am biased but the Pats got off easy relative to what was done to them.

[RuntheDamnBall]

So that guy sunk a couple hours into compiling/analyzing data, then churned out about 500 words to confirm that, in fact, we don't know .

[NoSaint]

Some of you guys act like the teams totally disintegrated since then.... Even with the two losses in the SB he's been coach of one of the most winning franchises in the league, and maintained it for a decade (ie he's had to totally turn over the roster 3-4 times due to salary cap, and really most of his coaching staff and front office too).

 

I don't like him, but he's very good at coaching nfl football.

[JohnC]

Some of you guys act like the teams totally disintegrated since then.... Even with the two losses in the SB he's been coach of one of the most winning franchises in the league, and maintained it for a decade (ie he's had to totally turn over the roster 3-4 times due to salary cap, and really most of his coaching staff and front office too).

 

I don't like him, but he's very good at coaching nfl football.

 

This topic comes up every year. We continue to lose and they continue to win. Denigrating others who are successful while your own performances reek with mediocrity is an embarrassing demonstration of jealousy.

 

Bill Belicick is going to be a first ballot HOF inductee. What he has accomplished in New England as a HC and as the most important person in the football operation is remarkable.

 

For a number of reasons this annual topic irks me. It represents is an attitude of inferiority. Instead of striving to be at the elite level it promotes a notion that one's own failures are caused by others. With respect to our hometown team nothing is further from the truth. Our failures are self-induced by historic levels of incompetence.

 

In a cap era with rapid player movements what the Patriots have accomplished under BB is remarkable. They are a franchise that should be emulated. Instead of complaining about their sterling legacy it would be a more mature approach to channel one's energies on creating one's own legacy to be proud of.

Edited August 9, 2014 by JohnC

[Doc]

[/b]

 

BB is going to be a first ballot HOF coach. He is recognized as being the driving force for one of the most successful franchises in the modern era of the league.

 

The Bills have been out of the playoffs for fourteen consecutive years, and still counting . Over the last decade they have barely had one or two winning records. Fans from a historically losing franchise shouldn't waste their energies criticizing a franchise that is one of the most successful franchises in the history of the league compared to a Bills franchise that has been one of the worst performing franchises over the past generation.

 

Winners win and losers make excuses. Every year this topic is reprised. This exhibition of jeolousy and excuse making is not only pathetic, it is embarrassing.

And in related news, Barry Bonds thanks you for making excuses for him as well.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Yes. But you aren't supposed to see the man behind the curtain. Just buy DirectTV, Go to games, move along folks, nothing to see here... You are NOT supposed to critically think, just get in line and have your pocketbook out and ready.

Edited August 9, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois

[RK_BillsFan]

I'm sorry, but even as a bills fan, lets put the patriot hate aside. The answer is no. It did not matter.Every team did it, it's pretty much fact. Pats got caught doing it is really the only difference.

 

Where is my proof that it didn't matter?

 

18-1

They went 18-1 that season, after they were being carefully watched by the entire world. Are you going to tell me that they got all their info in training camp and that is all they needed? To be fair, 2 teams came very close to beating them in the regular season (giants and browns).And that 1, the one they actually lose? Lets be honest here. I remember watching that play and having time to ask if they whistled the play dead before the throw. That followed by the most ridiculous catch probably in the history of the NFL by a third stringer no less.

 

Second SuperBowl against the Giants, the reason the Pats lost was actually entirely because of the very first offensive play the Pats had. Brady made a mistake, one that not only does he not normally make, but was absurdly bad. I've re-watched that play several times, his check down was open 6-8 yds in front of the LOS. All he had to do was throw it to him and IMO, the Pats would have won, regardless of how the rest of that drive went.

 

Get off the Brady hate train. He is a hall of fame QB and one of the best to ever play. The fact that he is a bit of a cry baby and a giant douche is irrelevant. When you can put up similar numbers to Peyton and Brees and have almost no one worth a dam to throw too, it shows his worth. He hasn't had a true #1 WR since Randy Moss and before that...... never. Even now, all he has are a bunch of #2's, Slot WRs and TEs which, of you know, thanks to the use of Gronk and a murderer helped redefine the importance of the position. And don't give me Anthony Gonzalez this and Jimmy Graham that, they are both amazing, but what they did in NE was far more important in changing the TE position and how it's viewed in the NFL.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I'm sorry, but even as a bills fan, lets put the patriot hate aside. The answer is no. It did not matter.Every team did it, it's pretty much fact. Pats got caught doing it is really the only difference.

 

Where is my proof that it didn't matter?

 

18-1

They went 18-1 that season, after they were being carefully watched by the entire world. Are you going to tell me that they got all their info in training camp and that is all they needed? To be fair, 2 teams came very close to beating them in the regular season (giants and browns).And that 1, the one they actually lose? Lets be honest here. I remember watching that play and having time to ask if they whistled the play dead before the throw. That followed by the most ridiculous catch probably in the history of the NFL by a third stringer no less.

 

Second SuperBowl against the Giants, the reason the Pats lost was actually entirely because of the very first offensive play the Pats had. Brady made a mistake, one that not only does he not normally make, but was absurdly bad. I've re-watched that play several times, his check down was open 6-8 yds in front of the LOS. All he had to do was throw it to him and IMO, the Pats would have won, regardless of how the rest of that drive went.

 

Get off the Brady hate train. He is a hall of fame QB and one of the best to ever play. The fact that he is a bit of a cry baby and a giant douche is irrelevant. When you can put up similar numbers to Peyton and Brees and have almost no one worth a dam to throw too, it shows his worth. He hasn't had a true #1 WR since Randy Moss and before that...... never. Even now, all he has are a bunch of #2's, Slot WRs and TEs which, of you know, thanks to the use of Gronk and a murderer helped redefine the importance of the position. And don't give me Anthony Gonzalez this and Jimmy Graham that, they are both amazing, but what they did in NE was far more important in changing the TE position and how it's viewed in the NFL.

 

I disagree. They were 18-1 because they cheated. The one game they lost was because Coughlin finally got his head out of his azz and stopped being arrogant like the coaches of the other 18 games. Coughlin hid everything and didn't allow the Pats* to cheat. They weren't being watched all season... UNTIL the Super Bowl.

[The Wiz]

Can we get this added to the emoticon library please.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Can we get this added to the emoticon library please.

 

LoL... I was wondering too!

[RK_BillsFan]

I disagree. They were 18-1 because they cheated. The one game they lost was because Coughlin finally got his head out of his azz and stopped being arrogant like the coaches of the other 18 games. Coughlin hid everything and didn't allow the Pats* to cheat. They weren't being watched all season... UNTIL the Super Bowl.

 

....... Do you even..... wow. Do you even know the timeline for the events and how it went that season? You clearly have no clue, so i'll do the google work for you.

 

Sept 9 - NEW England Patriots are caught taping/stealing Sideline signals from NY Jets. That's the first game of the season. This by the way is practiced and used by all teams at the time.

 

They won this game, and spygate was off and running. So what you're telling me is., over the course of the next, oh lets see 18 weeks, the Pats who were under a microscope still cheated? You're telling me that 16 other teams were not MORE careful in their game plans and what signals they used?

 

More importantly, you think the Giants won because of Coughlin? Are you high? Are you and I hope this doesn't get my banned from here, but I really have to ask, are you handicapped? That is the most ridiculous statement I've seen on here.

 

The Patriots have been an amazing team for over a decade. BB is a good coach, however, I will forever consider him to be Good and not Great due to his stumbling onto Tom Brady (I do believe he is innovative and creative). Brady made BB. I believe this full heartedly. If you really think Brady is a bad QB, then tell me with a strait face you wouldn't take him over EJ. Tell me you don't think he would light up the league with our receiving core. How many articles do they have to write about Peyton having everything and Brady having nothing, and in the end, they are considered essentially equal in terms of ability. I'm not even going to include the fact that the Pats never should have made it to the SUperBowl that first year, and only did so because of the tuck rule.

 

Yep. 18-1 because they cheated. That totally makes sense. They managed to continue cheating for 17 weeks while under the watchful eye of everyone and their mother. Then, they let Tom Coughlin out coach BB by..... and i'm going to quote you "hiding everything and didn't allow the Pats to cheat" Because Coughlin has an all seeing eye. Absurd. The Giants won their last 2 SuperBowls honestly, on sheer luck.

[Green Lightning]

 

The Giants won their last 2 SuperBowls honestly, on sheer luck.

 

Oh brother Giselle, get a clue. Fact- when BB didn't know what plays the other team was going to run, he hasn't won the SB. The Pats should have been treated like Lance and stripped of their titles.