The Wiz Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 What if Ballmer buys the clippers with intention of moving them to buffalo, bringing back the braves, so he can then put a bid in on the Bills? [puts on second tinfoil hat] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I've got to admit that this scares me some. I was thinking that the Clippers would go for somewhere between $1B-$1.5B. I didn't think that would impact the Bills sale too much. The number in my head for the Bills was somewhere between $1.1B-$1.25B m. There may be some guy out there like Ballmer that doesn't care about making money (this is the 1st ownership group that I can think of ever that didn't care). With the deal that they have with the Staples Center this will not be a profitable investment regardless o the TV rights associated with it. If there is someone out there in the $2B range I am a little concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 To me, the investment bank put a value on the team is considering all associated costs and revenues, including projections. That will include the short term revenue generated by being "stuck" at RWS with this lease. The temporal and geographic nature of the lease will keep the bid value lower for an owner looking to stay here beyond the lease and maybe somewhat higher for someone looking to leave after the lease expires because they're willing to bid a little more knowing the revenues in the future are greater, say in Toronto. Now, the key is that an owner intent on moving is making a significant gamble that the league would approve a relocation and they can get a stadium built. All these fiscal and risk factors considered, I'm not sure how anyone would bid $2B for this team without a new stadium here or anywhere... Does Toronto bid $2B and self-finance a $1B+ stadium since by all accounts local money for a stadium in Toronto ain't happening? Could happen I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) I've got to admit that this scares me some. I was thinking that the Clippers would go for somewhere between $1B-$1.5B. I didn't think that would impact the Bills sale too much. The number in my head for the Bills was somewhere between $1.1B-$1.25B m. There may be some guy out there like Ballmer that doesn't care about making money (this is the 1st ownership group that I can think of ever that didn't care). With the deal that they have with the Staples Center this will not be a profitable investment regardless o the TV rights associated with it. If there is someone out there in the $2B range I am a little concerned. You and me both ! The ONLY thing I fear at this point in the sale process is some crazy stupid bid that is so far above the local buyers that the 4-member trust has to consider it. If Toronto group bids $1.4B and Buffalo guys bid $1.1 or $1.2, there is no issue, I see that group of 4 voting for local ownership. If Guggenheim or now Balmer (ugh); comes in and bids $2.5B and says it will honor lease and not move team, what can the 4-member trust do, $2.5B v. $1.2B ? -- I think at that point the team is sold to that group Edited May 30, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 So stupid that some racist rant by Sterling could affect the Bills price. Hope it doesn't but that $2B price for an NBA franchise has to raise eyebrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You and me both ! The ONLY thing I fear at this point in the sale process is some crazy stupid bid that is so far above the local buyers that the 4-member trust has to consider it. If Toronto group bids $1.4B and Buffalo guys bid $1.1 or $1.2, there is no issue, I see that group of 4 voting for local ownership. If Guggenheim or now Balmer (ugh); comes in and bids $2.5B and says it will honor lease and not move team, what can the 4-member trust do, $2.5B v. $1.2B ? -- I think at that point the team is sold to that group Very well put TX!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) So stupid that some racist rant by Sterling could affect the Bills price. Hope it doesn't but that $2B price for an NBA franchise has to raise eyebrows. Not only the price, but the person who paid it--one of the smartest guys around and not someone who likes to lose money. It will make a lot of people wonder if they have been overlooking something all along. I think the price has more to do with the NBA than with sports franchises generally but many will disagree. Edited May 30, 2014 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Not only the price, but the person who paid it--one of the smartest guys around and not someone who likes to lose money. It will make a lot of people wonder if they have been overlooking something all along. I think the price has more to do with the NBA than with sports franchises generally but many will disagree. This is a vanity project for him. He outbid by $400,000. It comes with no property or individual TV contract. He will never make a dime off of this crazy deal. All he did was make Sterling twice the billionaire he was a week ago. I'm not worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 1.2 Billion tops for the Bills. It will cost a new owner at or nearly 2 billion considering he will have to put about 700 mill of his own money up for a stadium as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 This is a vanity project for him. He outbid by $400,000. It comes with no property or individual TV contract. He will never make a dime off of this crazy deal. All he did was make Sterling twice the billionaire he was a week ago. I'm not worried. You mean $400,000,000. But I agree. This was a "look at how much money I have" bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I don't see how this effects the Bills, LA is a huge market, the TV contracts are huge locally, the NBA is huge globally, and the Clippers are a young and upcoming team that is pulling market from the Lakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 If you're paying $2 billion for a sports franchise it's absolutely NOT about the money. If the Bills were sold for $2 Billion that would virtually guarantee the team stays in Buffalo simply because the owner will have to be so rich that he doesn't care about losing money. The above is not necessarily true. Suppose that a businessman with Ballmer-level wealth buys the Bills. But suppose that businessman is from LA! Which West Coast city do you think the Bills would be moved to, once the current lease expires? That said, I think the team is more likely to stay than to move. The Bills are tightly locked into their current lease; making them less attractive to any owner who'd want to move the team. But that tight locking in does not make them less attractive to an owner who'd want to keep the team in Buffalo. The main point I'm making with this post is that we're dealing with probabilities, not guarantees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Actually, they are always the same thing. Then we're on the opposite sides of the coin. If it's a financial investment, it's a terrible move. I can see the Bills reasonably selling for $1.25B, with $40M coming in each year it is little more than a 30 year mortgage then it has paid for itself (not counting interest of course). If it's a toy, how much enjoyment will it bring its owner? I've spent $60 on a game and beat it in three hours, so it was a terrible investment for me. I spent $10 on another and have spent probably hundreds of hours enjoying it. Thus making it a much better investment from my perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I don't see how this effects the Bills, LA is a huge market, the TV contracts are huge locally, the NBA is huge globally, and the Clippers are a young and upcoming team that is pulling market from the Lakers. The NFL dwarfs the NBA. The Clippers are not taking market away from the Lakers (not even a little bit based on TV ratings and popularity within LA itself). The Clippers best season has been this past one where they made it all the way to game six of the SECOND round -- the Clippers are the NBA's joke franchise and have been for decades. Their past two seasons have not made a dent in terms of the Lakers' market. Despite all of that, the Clippers sold for 2 Billion -- 1.5 BILLION more than their valuation. The Bills are going to go for at least 1.5 now, if not 2 themselves. The size of the market means little in the NFL due to the TV deal being shared. Mary Wilson should kiss Donald Sterling and Ballmer for helping her double the asking price in less than a 48 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Serious inflation the last couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 The NFL dwarfs the NBA. The Clippers are not taking market away from the Lakers (not even a little bit based on TV ratings and popularity within LA itself). The Clippers best season has been this past one where they made it all the way to game six of the SECOND round -- the Clippers are the NBA's joke franchise and have been for decades. Their past two seasons have not made a dent in terms of the Lakers' market. Despite all of that, the Clippers sold for 2 Billion -- 1.5 BILLION more than their valuation. The Bills are going to go for at least 1.5 now, if not 2 themselves. The size of the market means little in the NFL due to the TV deal being shared. Mary Wilson should kiss Donald Sterling and Ballmer for helping her double the asking price in less than a 48 hours. Except market means everything... Look no further than the fact that the Milwaukee Bucks sold for $550 million not more than a month ago. And they were valued at around $400 million. Why weren't they sold for 3 times their value? It's now being reported that Ballmer and a partner made a bid at the Bucks and guess what, it wasn't for $2 billion. Why is that? Because the Milwaukee market isn't worth $2 billion. It was for $650 million and he was turned down. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11005695/seattle-bid-nba-team-dealt-blow-steve-ballmer-agrees-purchase-los-angeles-clippers Plan and simple, this $2 billion bid was an overbid. A flex of his financial wealth. With many interested parties Ballmer wanted to make sure he would get the team so he made an offer that couldn't be refused. This won't drive the Bills value up. Could some crazy billionaire do the same and overbid? Sure. But with the Bills needing a new stadium in the near future, whether they stay or move, in my opinion I don't think that'll happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Except market means everything... Look no further than the fact that the Milwaukee Bucks sold for $550 million not more than a month ago. And they were valued at around $400 million. Why weren't they sold for 3 times their value? It's now being reported that Ballmer and a partner made a bid at the Bucks and guess what, it wasn't for $2 billion. Why is that? Because the Milwaukee market isn't worth $2 billion. It was for $650 million and he was turned down. http://espn.go.com/n...ngeles-clippers Plan and simple, this $2 billion bid was an overbid. A flex of his financial wealth. With many interested parties Ballmer wanted to make sure he would get the team so he made an offer that couldn't be refused. This won't drive the Bills value up. Could some crazy billionaire do the same and overbid? Sure. But with the Bills needing a new stadium in the near future, whether they stay or move, in my opinion I don't think that'll happen. The Clippers bid wasn't an overbid, it really wasn't. The Clippers are due to get a new TV deal / network from Fox in '16. People thought the Gugenheim group overbid for the Dodgers too before Fox came in with a 7 billion dollar TV deal. The Clips won't get 7 billion for their TV deal, but they will get a windfall. Ballmer looked at it from a long term perspective and made the bid he needed to in order to keep Ellison and company away. The NFL has shared TV revenue and market value is less significant for the valuation of a franchise especially in light of the newest CBA. The NFL is printing money, far more than the NBA -- even a Los Angeles NBA team -- if the Clips sold for over double their valuation (even if they went with the lower bid from Ellison's group it would have still been over double their valuation), the Bills will double their own valuation which was 870 last I checked. We will see how it impacts the Bills but you're dreaming if you don't think it'll play a role. I think you're going to be very surprised to see the Bills going for over 1.5 billion. Mark it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullim4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Ballmer is a doofus. I work at Microsoft and have seen his handiwork - he had no business being CEO. He got the position solely because of his connections to Bill Gates. God only knows how he managed to stay for 13 years as CEO. The difference in culture at the company since Satya Nadella took over has been striking - a breath of fresh air. I don't see why his management of the Clippers would be any different. The stupidity begins with the $2B bid for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Ballmer is a doofus. I work at Microsoft and have seen his handiwork - he had no business being CEO. He got the position solely because of his connections to Bill Gates. God only knows how he managed to stay for 13 years as CEO. The difference in culture at the company since Satya Nadella took over has been striking - a breath of fresh air. I don't see why his management of the Clippers would be any different. The stupidity begins with the $2B bid for the team. Bidding 2 Billion for the Clips was not stupid. We'll see how you feel when Fox gives them a couple billion for their new TV deal in '16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullim4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Bidding 2 Billion for the Clips was not stupid. We'll see how you feel when Fox gives them a couple billion for their new TV deal in '16. We'll see. This is the same guy that spent $7B on aQuantive (and subsequently took a $7B charge on earnings a few years ago as a direct result of this purchase) and wanted to buy Yahoo for $39B back in 2009 (current market cap = $34B). There were a ton of other deals that he made that were duds - I could go through the list but each one was a dud. He's a nice guy - he works out at the pro club in Bellevue with the regular joe-type employees and he ate in the cafe with us... but a good businessman, he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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