ny33 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Sorry but I don't see how this is "good" news. So Brandon, the self-proclaimed avatar of Ralph Wilson himself, had to "fight a long uphill battle" with the bean counters (Littman) to enact changes to the Toronto series? That's good news? It's the opposite - it's terrible news. It confirms that Littman is still running the show and is focused solely on the bottom line. The fact that Brandon prevailed is most likely because he was able to convince Littman that there was only marginal (at best) financial benefit from continuing with the deal, as today's BN article points out. Littman doesn't give a rat's ass about winning games. I have no problem with Brandon, never have. But I despise Ralph Wilson and his accountants and I can't wait for the day when they are finally gone... I don't care if it means the team has to move, I'd take the tradeoff. I agree 100%. I got knocked for my Russ Brandon thread which I created during Week 2 of the past season, but it is clear that the fundamental problems in this organization have not changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Sorry but I don't see how this is "good" news. So Brandon, the self-proclaimed avatar of Ralph Wilson himself, had to "fight a long uphill battle" with the bean counters (Littman) to enact changes to the Toronto series? That's good news? It's the opposite - it's terrible news. It confirms that Littman is still running the show and is focused solely on the bottom line. The fact that Brandon prevailed is most likely because he was able to convince Littman that there was only marginal (at best) financial benefit from continuing with the deal, as today's BN article points out. Littman doesn't give a rat's ass about winning games. I have no problem with Brandon, never have. But I despise Ralph Wilson and his accountants and I can't wait for the day when they are finally gone... I don't care if it means the team has to move, I'd take the tradeoff. Exactly. Ralph and his buddy Littman have always been the problem. Both need to go NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifting929 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Carpenter's system worked well for guys like Jack Kemp, Billy Shaw, Tom Sestak, and Jim Dunaway but it's too out dated for todays players. Who doesn't want all nighters with loose women, cocaine and excessive alcohol; hell it got them to 4 SBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Good to hear... I agree that Brandon is squarely in the Whaley/Marrone corner...I've felt that way all along...They are tied at the hip...Russ was put in charge and shortly thereafter Marrone was hired, and Whaley was promoted...It just makes sense that those three are in full agreement with the plan going forward...I think this whole thing is akin to a marathon rather than a sprint...It's going to take a little more time...But it's moving slowly in the right direction... I'm not clear how anyone can deduce Brandon is squarely in the Whaley/Marrone camp. He's the CEO of the organization, but their org chart has never been very specific. We know that Overdorf does not report to the GM, but to Brandon and Littmann. That said, Brandon at best takes a middle of the road perspective when involving matters of finance. Yet, he's not able to overrule Littmann which on this subject, which creates a strange scenario where Littmann directs Overdorf and neither Brandon nor the GM have much say in the matter. In the corporate culture, typically there isn't full agreement on all matters. Finance is always the first priority in a business, but in Buffalo it takes that to more of an extreme. The Toronto series will return eventually, but postponing it this year doesn't mean one side or the other has won. IMO, it's merely a bone thrown to fans not understanding why Byrd is allowed to leave when they're flush with cap space and have the 2nd most dead cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I'm not clear how anyone can deduce Brandon is squarely in the Whaley/Marrone camp. I think it's easy to deduce this...But it's just as easy to doubt it...Depends on your perspective and generally your amount of Brandon mistrust... I think he brought in Marrone and elevated Whaley to bring real...and I mean real, true, provable change you can see on the field...I believe Brandon is 100% dedicated to empowering the football side...I also believe it's easier said that done, especially in this organization, and it's not going to happen overnight... Of course I fully realize I may be wrong, and Brandon may only be interested in staying firmly in the middle, making everyone happy...Which of course is impossible and never works...I guess we'll see in time who is right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) This just in - looks like the old school won the power struggle (if there was one). One of the Bills Assistant trainers won a league-wide award and in the BB.com article, Marrone's quote goes out of his way to praise Bud Carpenter. "Greg McMillen named AFC Asst. Athletic Trainer of the Year" Marrone quote: “Greg is certainly deserving of the accolade. He is a member of one of the finest athletic training staffs, that does a terrific job with our players under the direction of Bud Carpenter, that I have been a part of during my football career.” Edited March 7, 2014 by BillnutinHouston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) This just in - looks like the old school won the power struggle (if there was one). One of the Bills Assistant trainers won a league-wide award and in the BB.com article, Marrone's quote goes out of his way to praise Bid Carpenter. "Greg McMillen named AFC Asst. Athletic Trainer of the Year" Marrone quote: “Greg is certainly deserving of the accolade. He is a member of one of the finest athletic training staffs, that does a terrific job with our players under the direction of Bud Carpenter, that I have been a part of during my football career.” Maybe Tim Graham is just full of crap. GO BILLS!!! Edited March 7, 2014 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Maybe Tim Graham is just fill of crap. GO BILLS!!! I think this was posited many pages ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Just noticed I said "fill" instead of "full." Anyway, when one is as FULL of crap as Tim Graham, it bears repeating. Lest some of the more impressionable minds are swayed by his level of crap load. GO BILLS!!! Edited March 7, 2014 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Sorry but I don't see how this is "good" news. So Brandon, the self-proclaimed avatar of Ralph Wilson himself, had to "fight a long uphill battle" with the bean counters (Littman) to enact changes to the Toronto series? That's good news? It's the opposite - it's terrible news. It confirms that Littman is still running the show and is focused solely on the bottom line. The fact that Brandon prevailed is most likely because he was able to convince Littman that there was only marginal (at best) financial benefit from continuing with the deal, as today's BN article points out. Littman doesn't give a rat's ass about winning games. I have no problem with Brandon, never have. But I despise Ralph Wilson and his accountants and I can't wait for the day when they are finally gone... I don't care if it means the team has to move, I'd take the tradeoff. I don't know...Maybe I just tend to look on the bright side of life?... Or I'm painstakingly naive... One or the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) Just saw this from yesterday http://blogs.buffalo...n-front-office/ "I have great belief in our structure, and let me be real clear about this,” said Brandon. “When Doug Whaley was brought in as general manager he was given sole responsibility for the 53-man roster and the value equation on each player. So the composition of the roster and the value on players are totally his responsibility. So he directs the ceiling on each negotiation and he has full salary cap at his disposal and he’s empowered to deploy it as he sees fit." "“My belief is the general manager position is all about personnel and all about player acquisition. (Senior VP of Football Administration) Jim Overdorf is our lead negotiator on each contract. He takes his direction from the GM chair. He is one of the most respected individuals at his craft in this business." hmmmmmmmmm Edited March 8, 2014 by Reed83HOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Just saw this from yesterday http://blogs.buffalo...n-front-office/ "I have great belief in our structure, and let me be real clear about this,” said Brandon. “When Doug Whaley was brought in as general manager he was given sole responsibility for the 53-man roster and the value equation on each player. So the composition of the roster and the value on players are totally his responsibility. So he directs the ceiling on each negotiation and he has full salary cap at his disposal and he’s empowered to deploy it as he sees fit." "“My belief is the general manager position is all about personnel and all about player acquisition. (Senior VP of Football Administration) Jim Overdorf is our lead negotiator on each contract. He takes his direction from the GM chair. He is one of the most respected individuals at his craft in this business." hmmmmmmmmm This is precisely how I've understood things to work since 1/1/13. I know some folks doubt it, but it's the truth based on what I've been told Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 This is precisely how I've understood things to work since 1/1/13. I know some folks doubt it, but it's the truth based on what I've been told This is why this makes sense: "“Every team has a lead negotiator. Jim and I and (Player Personnel Analyst) Kevin Meganck and Doug Whaley sits in on that as well. Quite frankly I don’t want Doug worried about which legal clause to put in a contract when he’s at a pro day, which he is (doing now). But make no mistake he sets the ceiling on each player and how the composition of the roster looks." Honestly why would you wnat your GM to be wasting their time making sure all of the correct clauses, i's are dotted, t's are crossed, etc? They should be scouting players, evaluating the roster etc... I did like this comment as well: "“I will tell you this, this organization has never been in more lock step. To offer any other commentary on that is really nonsense and sophomoric in my opinion.”" In some ways I think TG might have really marginalized himself with this organization, which is why he usually doesn't break or even contribute that much when it comes to Bills news... I have been waiting to see some type of response from the Bills regarding this. I have stepped back from the cliff after the announcement of us rolling over for Byrd; I still don't think you pay a safety that much but it sucks letting an all-pro move on for nothing. It is very easy to take a step back and see this go on from our front office for the past what 20 years now and think this is more of the same. It might just still be a little too early to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 This is why this makes sense: "“Every team has a lead negotiator. Jim and I and (Player Personnel Analyst) Kevin Meganck and Doug Whaley sits in on that as well. Quite frankly I don’t want Doug worried about which legal clause to put in a contract when he’s at a pro day, which he is (doing now). But make no mistake he sets the ceiling on each player and how the composition of the roster looks." Honestly why would you wnat your GM to be wasting their time making sure all of the correct clauses, i's are dotted, t's are crossed, etc? They should be scouting players, evaluating the roster etc... I did like this comment as well: "“I will tell you this, this organization has never been in more lock step. To offer any other commentary on that is really nonsense and sophomoric in my opinion.”" In some ways I think TG might have really marginalized himself with this organization, which is why he usually doesn't break or even contribute that much when it comes to Bills news... I have been waiting to see some type of response from the Bills regarding this. I have stepped back from the cliff after the announcement of us rolling over for Byrd; I still don't think you pay a safety that much but it sucks letting an all-pro move on for nothing. It is very easy to take a step back and see this go on from our front office for the past what 20 years now and think this is more of the same. It might just still be a little too early to tell. Basically, yeah. I too felt like Byrd should have been tagged in order to get another season out of him...I do, however, submit to the reasoning that the FO is closer to the situation than I am and knows the ramifications of a second tag far better than I do. For the record, I like Whaley a LOT. I think he should be given several years to craft a team with his vision and see where it gets us. I believe he knows personnel and I think that--more often than not--that's the difference between being able to compete in this league and being a perennial sideshow act. This is why this makes sense: "“Every team has a lead negotiator. Jim and I and (Player Personnel Analyst) Kevin Meganck and Doug Whaley sits in on that as well. Quite frankly I don’t want Doug worried about which legal clause to put in a contract when he’s at a pro day, which he is (doing now). But make no mistake he sets the ceiling on each player and how the composition of the roster looks." Honestly why would you wnat your GM to be wasting their time making sure all of the correct clauses, i's are dotted, t's are crossed, etc? They should be scouting players, evaluating the roster etc... I did like this comment as well: "“I will tell you this, this organization has never been in more lock step. To offer any other commentary on that is really nonsense and sophomoric in my opinion.”" In some ways I think TG might have really marginalized himself with this organization, which is why he usually doesn't break or even contribute that much when it comes to Bills news... I have been waiting to see some type of response from the Bills regarding this. I have stepped back from the cliff after the announcement of us rolling over for Byrd; I still don't think you pay a safety that much but it sucks letting an all-pro move on for nothing. It is very easy to take a step back and see this go on from our front office for the past what 20 years now and think this is more of the same. It might just still be a little too early to tell. Basically, yeah. I too felt like Byrd should have been tagged in order to get another season out of him...I do, however, submit to the reasoning that the FO is closer to the situation than I am and knows the ramifications of a second tag far better than I do. For the record, I like Whaley a LOT. I think he should be given several years to craft a team with his vision and see where it gets us. I believe he knows personnel and I think that--more often than not--that's the difference between being able to compete in this league and being a perennial sideshow act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Basically, yeah. I too felt like Byrd should have been tagged in order to get another season out of him...I do, however, submit to the reasoning that the FO is closer to the situation than I am and knows the ramifications of a second tag far better than I do. For the record, I like Whaley a LOT. I think he should be given several years to craft a team with his vision and see where it gets us. I believe he knows personnel and I think that--more often than not--that's the difference between being able to compete in this league and being a perennial sideshow act. Basically, yeah. I too felt like Byrd should have been tagged in order to get another season out of him...I do, however, submit to the reasoning that the FO is closer to the situation than I am and knows the ramifications of a second tag far better than I do. For the record, I like Whaley a LOT. I think he should be given several years to craft a team with his vision and see where it gets us. I believe he knows personnel and I think that--more often than not--that's the difference between being able to compete in this league and being a perennial sideshow act. With Byrd; really, what does 1 more year buy us? Might as well see if Williams or Searcy can hack it this year and move forward in a different direction if need be. I certainly would not be looking to fill the void at Safety in our first 2 or 3 picks this year... Russ is smart enough to know that we can't be viewed as a sideshow. Just as everyone wants to do their part to keep the Bills here; don't you think he also wants to be able to keep his job once RW passes? or at least position himself to go elsewhere? Not fixing what is wrong with the Bills does nothing to advance him or keep him at the same level once RW no longer owns the team... You are correct about Whaley and in general the best GMs are the owns who know personnel. This is why Ron Wolf, Polian, Butler (RIP), Dimitrof, Newsome etc are successful. Otherwise you get Jeff Irelands, Marv Levy's, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well, those that choose to believe Russ is no more than "Ralph's puppet" will simply dismiss this report as "more lies." How convenient. As far as I can tell, this smells precisely the same way as it has from the start: like Tim Graham whipped every last drop of negative life out of an otherwise non-situation, out of the otherwise typical professional push/pull that I'm sure exists in every professional sports organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I'm still confused why this is so blown out of proportion. Peel back the curtain of any organization from that of the SB champs to the Jacksonville Jags and you have a power struggle in the FO. And the GM is not drawing up the contracts without someone like Overdorf. And there is someone controlling the finances of the owner, Except no one cares unless it is treated like the reason for team's W-L record. Which it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well, those that choose to believe Russ is no more than "Ralph's puppet" will simply dismiss this report as "more lies." How convenient. As far as I can tell, this smells precisely the same way as it has from the start: like Tim Graham whipped every last drop of negative life out of an otherwise non-situation, out of the otherwise typical professional push/pull that I'm sure exists in every professional sports organization. The thing is Big Cat, the folks to whom your first paragraph refers are just speaking emotionally--I don't know that they really believe the FO is a bunch of liars per se. I sort of understand it--decades of disappointment can breed that kind of temperament. Where I get frustrated is that several folks that have proven themselves reliable as far as providing insight (without being apple polishers to boot--I am NOT speaking of myself here either) have tried to set the record straight from a purely factual standpoint and been rebuffed repeatedly. I guess when the changes occurred, fans expected a dynamic swing in modus operandi--failing it seems to realize that a wholesale change was neither imminent or warranted. Instead what they've gotten is a group that is bound and determined to build a team responsibly and over the course of years, not months. Because fans were "sold" (in their eyes) on such a message in the past, some are reticent to accept it now. However it seems that instead of takin th wait-and-see approach this time around, many are taking the "criticize until proven right" approach. I can't put myself there...looks like many others cannot either, which I think is a good thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Because fans were "sold" (in their eyes) on such a message in the past, some are reticent to accept it now. However it seems that instead of takin th wait-and-see approach this time around, many are taking the "criticize until proven right" approach. I know for me the "wait and see" approach is what I have been living towards for like the last 15 years; it just gets old. This century, the names have changed but the game and results have stayed the same. I think everyone is just frustrated (rightfully so) and wants to see us pull ourselves back up. It's all just old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I know for me the "wait and see" approach is what I have been living towards for like the last 15 years; it just gets old. This century, the names have changed but the game and results have stayed the same. I think everyone is just frustrated (rightfully so) and wants to see us pull ourselves back up. It's all just old... Hey, it's not that I don't understand it; it's that I don't choose to approach it that way. What rankles me more than anything is when a proponent of either POV takes it upon themselves to tell others how they should feel or that their POV is the "truth". I'm grateful that most fans, yourself included, don't act that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Hey, it's not that I don't understand it; it's that I don't choose to approach it that way. What rankles me more than anything is when a proponent of either POV takes it upon themselves to tell others how they should feel or that their POV is the "truth". I'm grateful that most fans, yourself included, don't act that way. I entirely agree with your and the "my way is the truth" posters; every year it feels like it gets worse.... The ability to have a spirited debate or conversation is ruined in those instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I think it's easy to deduce this...But it's just as easy to doubt it...Depends on your perspective and generally your amount of Brandon mistrust... I think he brought in Marrone and elevated Whaley to bring real...and I mean real, true, provable change you can see on the field...I believe Brandon is 100% dedicated to empowering the football side...I also believe it's easier said that done, especially in this organization, and it's not going to happen overnight... Of course I fully realize I may be wrong, and Brandon may only be interested in staying firmly in the middle, making everyone happy...Which of course is impossible and never works...I guess we'll see in time who is right... I really appreciate this post Bandit. Thanks for keeping your head screwed on decently all these years . and then keeping the rest of who can hear it , reasonably balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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