Chef Jim Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I did, it was an implied yes, now you answer the question So what did you mean by calling it a family squabble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 So what did you mean by calling it a family squabble? Why are you changing the subject??? Too funny. Answer my question first, you don't get to keep asking question. Where did I say I approved or disapproved with Bush's policy? Or you can just admit you were wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 You don't have to agree with it, it's still accurate. It's hard to fight a propaganda war against a tyrant when your own recent history of righteousness is shoddy at best. EDIT: Different levels of wrong is exactly the point. Of course there are different levels, and the US used to be able to make that distinction clearly on the world stage in times like this. But now our words are seen as hollow (whether they are or not) by the rest of world in part because of the mistakes made in the lead up to Iraqi Freedom. So, you're right that there are different levels of being wrong and Putin's invasion of the Crimea pales in comparison to ours in Iraq in terms of cause... but because we were proven to be wrong in Iraq we have lost the ability to point out said differences to Joe Schmoe European on the street. I have an interesting question for you. Who cares about Europe? When **** hits the fan, who does any leader want covering their ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I have an interesting question for you. Who cares about Europe? A whole shitload of Europeans? When **** hits the fan, who does any leader want covering their ass? Isn't the point to stop the **** before hit hits the fan? Or are you advocating military action in the Ukraine against Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Why are you changing the subject??? Too funny. Answer my question first, you don't get to keep asking question. Where did I say I approved or disapproved with Bush's policy? Or you can just admit you were wrong Ok I'll answer the questions for you seeing you don't want to play. Did you call it a family squabble? Yes Why? Because we should stay out of it. What did Bush do when Putin went in to Georgia (I assume that's what you're talking about)? He stayed out of it. Conclusion. You approved of how Bush handled the Georgia situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I did, it was an implied yes, now you answer the questionWhy? But you're missing the point by asking that question. It doesn't matter if Bush believed there were WMD's or if he knowingly fabricated evidence to support that theory. Regardless of his intent, on the world stage the country was shown to be wrong. That has an impact. From Putin's perspective it doesn't matter if he believes Russians are in danger or not, he can successfully argue that he did just as Bush and company can continue to say they honestly believed they were right. Have you been to Russia or Europe recently? Wonder twin powers activate, form of dipshits. Besides your whole premise of it being Bush's fault was thrown out the window once the reset button was pressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Ok I'll answer the questions for you seeing you don't want to play. Did you call it a family squabble? Yes Why? Because we should stay out of it. What did Bush do when Putin went in to Georgia (I assume that's what you're talking about)? He stayed out of it. Conclusion. You approved of how Bush handled the Georgia situation. Ok I'll answer the questions for you seeing you don't want to play. Did you call it a family squabble? Yes Why? Because we should stay out of it. What did Bush do when Putin went in to Georgia (I assume that's what you're talking about)? He stayed out of it. Conclusion. You approved of how Bush handled the Georgia situation. Why did you have to make that so difficult?? Wonder twin powers activate, form of dipshits. Besides your whole premise of it being Bush's fault was thrown out the window once the reset button was pressed. Joe Miner the idiot drive by poster.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Why did you have to make that so difficult?? Because I wanted you to realize you're an idiot as opposed to pointing it out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Besides your whole premise of it being Bush's fault was thrown out the window once the reset button was pressed. What reset button are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Because I wanted you to realize you're an idiot as opposed to pointing it out for you. No, I think you just get yourself so twisted around you don't know which way is up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 No, I think you just get yourself so twisted around you don't know which way is up So my logical progression of questions didn't make sense to you? Admit it you're playing both sides of the fence depending on who is doing what. And you call me a partisan hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 So my logical progression of questions didn't make sense to you? Admit it you're playing both sides of the fence depending on who is doing what. And you call me a partisan hack. you're a partisan hack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) you're a partisan hack If you consider someone who despises Democrats just a bit more than they despise Reblicans a partisan hack then I'm guilty as charged. Edited March 7, 2014 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Putin mocks the West and threatens to turn off gas supplies Russian leader says does not want 'new cold war' but threatens to disrupt European gas supplies Vladimir Putin has mocked diplomatic efforts to end the Ukraine crisis as Russia threatened to disrupt European gas supplies by cutting off sales to Kiev over its unpaid debts. The Russian president said through his official spokesman that, despite deep disagreements with the West, he did not want a confrontation over Ukraine to spiral into a “new cold war”. Nevertheless Dmitry Peskov ridiculed Western demands for direct talks between the Kremlin and the new Kiev government, claiming that the loss of credibility involved “puts a smile on our face”. http://www.telegraph...s-supplies.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 What reset button are you referring to? http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/372332/obama-flashback-reset-button-has-worked-jonah-goldberg#! Medvedev also expressed his displeasure with Iran, giving another indication that Russia may back Obama should the Iranians reject the nuclear deal on the table. Following the meeting and Medvedev pronouncements, Obama concluded that “the reset button has worked.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 But you're missing the point by asking that question. It doesn't matter if Bush believed there were WMD's or if he knowingly fabricated evidence to support that theory. Regardless of his intent, on the world stage the country was shown to be wrong. That has an impact. From Putin's perspective it doesn't matter if he believes Russians are in danger or not, he can successfully argue that he did just as Bush and company can continue to say they honestly believed they were right. Have you been to Russia or Europe recently? You could be right if you weren't so incredibly wrong. Iraq has absolutely no relevance to the current situation in Ukraine, unless you want to tie to the hasty US exit from the country to how the world looks at the remaining superpower. If you want some proof, check out the composition of the countries who sent troops to the combat zone and see if you can find similarities to the Warsaw pact. But I know - Bush bad - and he will be a convenient excuse for lazy correspondents and a gullible public to fall back on the wrong excuse. The issue is simple - Putin wants to resurrect the USSR. He needs Ukraine for the control of the gas transit lines and a warm sea port for his navy. He has never been opaque about his ambitions. The only thing that's opaque is the memory of people who cover this and fail to connect the obvious dots. It's like Georgia, Beslan and Dagestan occurred in a fantasy flick. I don't know how much more evidence we need to prove that this is the worst implemented foreign policy by a President in over a century, and my history knowledge goes rusty before WWI. I can't believe that people are still clinging to Iraq as the excuse when there have been other major moves by Obama along the way that gave Putin his nice glide path. Putin has always been about the long game, and as a dictator he knows he has the time advantage over democratic nations who regularly recycle power. All he had to do is wait and hope for a weak kneed milquetoast to parachute into the white house, and I bet he didn't expect to hit a troika with his ambition. As I said before, Bush initially got duped by Putin following the Yeltsin purge. But say what you will about Bush, he has a knack for recovery. He quickly figured out Putin's long game and put plans in motion to counter them. That's why you saw a big embrace of the eastern block countries to wean them off Russian influence. That's why some moved to EU and NATO was making a big push. Nobody was fearful that US was going to invade them, and the fledgling democracies liked Bush's counterbalance to Putin's bear hug. Yet as soon as Obama came in, he started to dismantle all the work that the Bush administration started. The biggest was suspending the missile defense system in East Europe, against the wishes of the host countries. Yes, wrap your head around that one. The host countries (Poland, Czech etc) wanted more US presence, not less. The only complaints about the system came from Russia, and US abandoned it to push the reset button. You want more examples? Sure. How about stalling any sort of progress to export oil & gas to counter Russia's gas deliveries to Europe? How about letting Putin run roughshod over Kyrgyztan over that backwards country hosting a major AF base? How about standing down on any major geopolitical issue over the last 5 years? How about vacillating during Arab Spring and letting a crooked, but trusted old ally to fall to a mob? Don't you think other despots take notice? Should we use Iran as an example? Syria? Saudi Arabia and Israel distancing themselves? Do you think these are all isolated incidents, or are they the big friggin hammer that's smacking you in the head because all these little things are adding up to one major clusterf*&* because there is zero foreign policy other than a reactionary press conference? How does it make you feel that John Kerry is the only one who looks semi sane in that crew of amateurs? But all you can come up with is Bush - Iraq? WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 But all you can come up with is Bush - Iraq? WTF? I've said this before about Obamacare, and the same is holding true for Russia/Ukraine. Both have been handled so poorly by this administration that the only people left to defend it are the die-hard kool-aid drinkers in the truest sense of that metaphor...people who only know to stand outside and take the cup being handed to them by their leader, accepting that his way is the only way to salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 I've said this before about Obamacare, and the same is holding true for Russia/Ukraine. Both have been handled so poorly by this administration that the only people left to defend it are the die-hard kool-aid drinkers in the truest sense of that metaphor...people who only know to stand outside and take the cup being handed to them by their leader, accepting that his way is the only way to salvation. Tgreg doesn't strike me as a big Obama supporter but if people only get their opinions from the news, ... and Jon Stewart/Colbert/Maher, what do you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Yet as soon as Obama came in, he started to dismantle all the work that the Bush administration started. The biggest was suspending the missile defense system in East Europe, against the wishes of the host countries. Yes, wrap your head around that one. The host countries (Poland, Czech etc) wanted more US presence, not less. The only complaints about the system came from Russia, and US abandoned it to push the reset button. Los Gatos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 You could be right if you weren't so incredibly wrong. ... But all you can come up with is Bush - Iraq? WTF? That is in no way what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts