Beerball Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I have asked this before but what specifically about EJ's game so far do people like? I think that he has been good late in games but that's about it. Please don't say "he's young" or tell me how many starts that he has. What specifically have you seen that give you hope? He has the tangibles. The intangibles he struggles with. Could we see some links to validate this, something I view as a straw-man argument? Links? No, I'm referring to statements made here, not by the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 He has the tangibles. The intangibles he struggles with. Really? Isn't footwork a tangible, quantifiable issue? Isn't accuracy? Isn't knowing when to run and when not to? If nothing else I view these as coachable. I always think of intangibles as the elements like character, leadership, all the stuff everyone believes EJ has in spades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Really? Isn't footwork a tangible, quantifiable issue? Isn't accuracy? Isn't knowing when to run and when not to? If nothing else I view these as coachable. I always think of intangibles as the elements like character, leadership, all the stuff everyone believes EJ has in spades. Yup. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The idea that EJ doesn't have to compete for his job is asinine. If anything, he has to compete harder to keep hold of #1 status on the depth chart. The idea that the Bills wouldn't draft a better QB is also asinine. If there is one available at 9, they would take him. The problem is people think that a BETTER QB is gonna be available at 9. Just who that is going to be, I'd like to know. Separate all the hype from what scouts really know, and that QB won't be there at 9. GO BILLS!!! I agree. With all the flops we've had with 1st Round picks and the consequencial decade and a half of misery, we've nearly reached a point where we expect failure (last season a noticeable departure). So why not take a QB #1 again? At least this year there really is 1st round worthy talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I agree. With all the flops we've had with 1st Round picks and the consequencial decade and a half of misery, we've nearly reached a point where we expect failure (last season a noticeable departure). So why not take a QB #1 again? At least this year there really is 1st round worthy talent. Doubtful at the 9th spot. There are 3 (Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel) and arguably 4 (Carr) QB's with 1st round grades and 4 teams (Texans, Jags, Browns, and Vikings) and arguably up to 6 (Rams and Raiders) picking before the Bills who need QB's. And there is no consensus who is the top QB and definitely no prospect considered close to a "can't miss," if there even is such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Doubtful at the 9th spot. There are 3 (Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel) and arguably 4 (Carr) QB's with 1st round grades and 4 teams (Texans, Jags, Browns, and Vikings) and arguably up to 6 (Rams and Raiders) picking before the Bills who need QB's. And there is no consensus who is the top QB and definitely no prospect considered close to a "can't miss," if there even is such a thing. Was Matt Ryan "can't miss?" What about Cutler? Rodgers? Brady? Rivers? Big Ben? Eli? Brady? Stafford? Palmer? Wilson? Kaepernick? Dalton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Really? Isn't footwork a tangible, quantifiable issue? Isn't accuracy? Isn't knowing when to run and when not to? If nothing else I view these as coachable. I always think of intangibles as the elements like character, leadership, all the stuff everyone believes EJ has in spades. Who is going to "coach" his deficits in footwork? And someone will coach him to accuracy? Those are basic QB skills, usually prerequisites for top QB in the draft selection--especially after 4 years of Div 1 college play. Now he needs to be taught how to run and throw--the guy who loudly boasted that he had already mastered the Bills offense before week one? Doubtful at the 9th spot. There are 3 (Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel) and arguably 4 (Carr) QB's with 1st round grades and 4 teams (Texans, Jags, Browns, and Vikings) and arguably up to 6 (Rams and Raiders) picking before the Bills who need QB's. And there is no consensus who is the top QB and definitely no prospect considered close to a "can't miss," if there even is such a thing. If there is no such thing as a "can't miss" QB, why make a point of its absence in this year's draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Was Matt Ryan "can't miss?" What about Cutler? Rodgers? Brady? Rivers? Big Ben? Eli? Brady? Stafford? Palmer? Wilson? Kaepernick? Dalton? Nope. But assuming that the top-4 QB's are taken, do you think the Bills should take one at 9, and who? Who is going to "coach" his deficits in footwork? And someone will coach him to accuracy? Those are basic QB skills, usually prerequisites for top QB in the draft selection--especially after 4 years of Div 1 college play. Now he needs to be taught how to run and throw--the guy who loudly boasted that he had already mastered the Bills offense before week one? How about...the QB coach? And footwork helps with accuracy. If there is no such thing as a "can't miss" QB, why make a point of its absence in this year's draft? Because, again, taking the 5th to 7th best prospect when there isn't even a consensus on the top few guys isn't exactly smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Who is going to "coach" his deficits in footwork? And someone will coach him to accuracy? Those are basic QB skills, usually prerequisites for top QB in the draft selection--especially after 4 years of Div 1 college play. Now he needs to be taught how to run and throw--the guy who loudly boasted that he had already mastered the Bills offense before week one? You're right, no one has ever improved their accuracy or their footwork at the NFL level. Loudly boasted? Really? Good lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 You're right, no one has ever improved their accuracy or their footwork at the NFL level. Loudly boasted? Really? Good lord. Only Matt Barkley can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Nope. But assuming that the top-4 QB's are taken, do you think the Bills should take one at 9, and who? How about...the QB coach? And footwork helps with accuracy. Because, again, taking the 5th to 7th best prospect when there isn't even a consensus on the top few guys isn't exactly smart. Number 5. That's comparable to EJ's skill. You know how every draft class is deeper next year? Saying there's no consensus is the exact same thing. When was the last time there was a consensus? Luck? And before then? Manning? So who cares. Teams have obviously found their franchise guys without this elusive "consensus." Edited February 19, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 gee QB play can really help a team contend...wow. Unless your Seattle with a smoothering defense, kick ass line and running game then you just need a guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 gee QB play can really help a team contend...wow. Unless your Seattle with a smoothering defense, kick ass line and running game then you just need a guy Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Can't tell if I should bite or not. Sarcasm here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Nope. But assuming that the top-4 QB's are taken, do you think the Bills should take one at 9, and who? How about...the QB coach? And footwork helps with accuracy. Because, again, taking the 5th to 7th best prospect when there isn't even a consensus on the top few guys isn't exactly smart. You say there is no consensus, yet you are sure that 4 QBs will be off the board before 9. EJ has been coached by QB coaches at Florida St, no? Or do you think they made their OC do double duty at QB coach like Marrone did? You're right, no one has ever improved their accuracy or their footwork at the NFL level. Loudly boasted? Really? Good lord. Yes, in fact I don't recall any other rookie ever making that claim at that point in his career. It was a ridiculous comment to make at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yes, in fact I don't recall any other rookie ever making that claim at that point in his career. It was a ridiculous comment to make at that time. Yes, I quite recall, it was a rant of Sherman-esque proportions. I imagine when he steps off of the ledge of intense rookie bravado he'll realize the error of his ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Can't tell if I should bite or not. Sarcasm here? You can't tell when you're being smoothered with sarcasm? You prefer your taunts with a few more wrinkles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Number 5. That's comparable to EJ's skill. Maybe in theory. Reality is usually a different story. You know how every draft class is deeper next year? Saying there's no consensus is the exact same thing. When was the last time there was a consensus? Luck? And before then? Manning? Yep, every draft class is reportedly deeper. Except that usually doesn't turn out to be true. This year will be no different. Next year, Winston will likely be a consensus top overall pick, if he has another year like this one. You say there is no consensus, yet you are sure that 4 QBs will be off the board before 9. When did I say I'm sure 4 will be off the board? And what if it's 3 and the 4th QB starved team passes on him. Is that the guy the Bills should take at 9? EJ has been coached by QB coaches at Florida St, no? Or do you think they made their OC do double duty at QB coach like Marrone did? Every QB has been coached in college. Yet in the pros, they usually struggle early. How can that be? Edited February 19, 2014 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Yes, I quite recall, it was a rant of Sherman-esque proportions. I imagine when he steps off of the ledge of intense rookie bravado he'll realize the error of his ways. It doesn't have to be Sherman in terms of intensity to be loud and foolish. What rookie QB says this--especially one who came from a program that simplified their offense to suit his skill set?--and he actually said the Bills playbook was EASIER than the Seminoles! Here, in case you missed it. “The funny thing is it’s easier to learn than the offense I had at Florida State,” Manuel, the Bills’ first round draft pick, told SiriusXM NFL Radio,according to ESPN.com. “It’s a true West Coast-type progression offense. That’s really what I wanted when I was coming through the pre-draft process. I wanted something that I could just go in and say 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, check it down and run it. That’s it, it’s that simple. I love it.” “The learning curve for me is a lot shorter simply because of what I had at Florida State,” he added. “[That offense is] more complex and a little bit harder to catch on and learn. This offense is very simple. I’ve done a great job with it." "Good Lord"....that's the loudest declaration by a rookie QB I've ever seen in training camp. Of course, it was delusional.. Maybe in theory. Reality is usually a different story. Yep, every draft class is reportedly deeper. Except that usually doesn't turn out to be true. This year will be no different. Next year, Winston will likely be a consensus top overall pick, if he has another year like this one. When did I say I'm sure 4 will be off the board? And what if it's 3 and the 4th QB starved team passes on him. Is that the guy the Bills should take at 9? Every QB has been coached in college. Yet in the pros, they usually struggle early. How can that be? You said 4 QB will be picked before 9 because 6 teams ahead of us need a QB. I guess in college, QB coaches don't care about footwork and accuracy. Edited February 19, 2014 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 You said 4 QB will be picked before 9 because 6 teams ahead of us need a QB. I guess in college, QB coaches don't care about footwork and accuracy. No, I said that 4 teams need a QB and arguably 6 do, meaning that the 4 QB's with first round grades could be gone by the time the Bills pick. And if they're not and these teams pass on one of them, do the Bills really want him/them? I'm sure they do. I'm also sure it's something that can be improved upon even in the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 You said 4 QB will be picked before 9 because 6 teams ahead of us need a QB. Us? Don't you guys pick in the 20s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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