....lybob Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 We reversed the natural order when we took criminals off the streets in the first place. Well I guess it makes sense, some CEOs have been trying on criminality for awhile now so why shouldn't some criminals try on the trappings of business . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Well I guess it makes sense, some CEOs have been trying on criminality for awhile now so why shouldn't some criminals try on the trappings of business . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Why don't we start by just making sure the prison population is just as literate as the rest of society? Then we can work on getting GED's. Why are we so worried about MBA's when the 99.9% of the prison population will never get one? Baby steps. There is a prison GED program. I don't mind one way or another but it does seem to be a reversal of the natural order. What's the natural order that you refer to? Putting people in cages for a few years and then releasing them back into society and telling them to be good doesn't sound natural. Or effective. Edited February 18, 2014 by John Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'd hire a prison MBA before half of these online and 1 year programs. Over saturated. Only hire interns, save a bunch of dough. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/fashion/millennials-internships.html?_r=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 There is a prison GED program. What's the natural order that you refer to? Putting people in cages for a few years and then releasing them back into society and telling them to be good doesn't sound natural. Or effective. Usually people get their MBAs first then later become criminals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Usually people get their MBAs first then later become criminals Give a big hand for lybob, everyone. He'll be here all week with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 How much does it cost the government, society and the always forgotten victims if the prisoners get out of jail and commit another crime? This government investment could pay for itself easily Exactly. They could earn a degree, get out of prison, and not find a job like the rest of American graduates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 http://business.financialpost.com/2014/02/18/jpmorgan-banker-suicide-hong-kong/ Another banker commits suicide. Good lord! That's horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Good lord! That's horrible. Really? Why? I assume you'd be happy to see investment bankers jumping to their death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 There is a prison GED program. What's the natural order that you refer to? Putting people in cages for a few years and then releasing them back into society and telling them to be good doesn't sound natural. Or effective. I know. But I'm betting that the prison population still lags behind the rest of the population in terms of ged or hs diplomas. I'm suggesting we start by making real inroads on getting as many people up to the same minimum level of education that we provide the rest of society. That's at least a level that people can't argue about unfair treatment since it's a level provided to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well I guess it makes sense, some CEOs have been trying on criminality for awhile now so why shouldn't some criminals try on the trappings of business . I honestly wonder why it took you so long to pick the low-hanging fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I honestly wonder why it took you so long to pick the low-hanging fruit. He still needed a ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Jail = dumbass. No MBA program w outrageous fees to the taxpayer should be available IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckinny Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) What do you propose to do about recidivism, given the current environment surrounding opporunities for individuals exiting the prison system? Do you believe it would cost less to educate an individual while they are serving their current sentence, possibly reducing their sentence, and giving them real opportunity; or do you believe it would cost less to not educate them, have them serve their full sentence, and have them return to prison for another extended sentence a year later when they re-offend? If you are rich you probably don't need college loans to pay for college, and if you are poor you will qualify for all sorts of subsidies and programs, while the MIddle Class is told you can take out low interest loans and pay them back over a 10 year period to afford it. Color me wrong but Jail is a punishment for doing somethign wrong. You should give up your free rights, while you broke the law. So again this is a bit of class warfare because we reward the misfortunate with all sorts of programs while squeezing the middle class for even more tax money. I wish the governor of NYS would learn to live within his 2% property tax cap like the local governments need to! Edited February 20, 2014 by stuckinny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 If you are rich you probably don't need college loans to pay for college, and if you are poor you will qualify for all sorts of subsidies and programs, while the MIddle Class is told you can take out low interest loans and pay them back over a 10 year period to afford it. Color me wrong but Jail is a punishment for doing somethign wrong. You should give up your free rights, while you broke the law. So again this is a bit of class warfare because we reward the misfortunate with all sorts of programs while squeezing the middle class for even more tax money. I wish the governor of NYS would learn to live within his 2% property tax cap like the local governments need to! The point is if you can capture a criminal audience who catches fire and gets postive self image from learning while in the clink, rather than trying to shank someone, perhaps they come out and find a life of employment and propersity- and maybe their debt to society is repaid as these educated ex-cons get involved wiht youth and other at risk Americans to keep them out of jail and in school, or in job training. Maybe the repayment is not going back to prison, rather manning up and paying your bills the honest way. Many of these guys were dealt a **** life, **** family, **** friends, **** situation- We might be amazed what is inside some of those criminal given teh chance to success, rather than rob and steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 If you are rich you probably don't need college loans to pay for college, and if you are poor you will qualify for all sorts of subsidies and programs, while the MIddle Class is told you can take out low interest loans and pay them back over a 10 year period to afford it. What's your point? I thought you were arguing about incarceration costs to taxpayers, the above is unrelated to that. Stay on topic. Color me wrong but Jail is a punishment for doing somethign wrong. You should give up your free rights, while you broke the law. Jail, in the United States, is not soley about punishment; it's also about rehabilitation. Assuming your goal isn't to simply execute all criminals of all varieties, nor is it to give lifetime sentences for all crimes, you have to start with the base premise that these people, after serving their sentence, will be released back out into society with the rest of us. The question then becomes, what sort of individual do you want to release? A desperate, institutionalized, criminal with zero prospects other than returning to crime or starving to death? Or perhaps a functional human being who has the potential to make his way in society without resorting to future crimes? Keep in mind that any answer that bears resemblence to: "I want them to not be criminals anymore because they should be afraid to go back to jail." is a foolish response that doesn't take reality into account. Clearly that isn't a strong deterrent, given recitivism rates. So how do you solve the problem? So again this is a bit of class warfare because we reward the misfortunate with all sorts of programs while squeezing the middle class for even more tax money. I wish the governor of NYS would learn to live within his 2% property tax cap like the local governments need to! No, it isn't regardless of how much you'd like to characterize it as such. It's about managing the known costs of the prison system. What costs more? An MBA program that works to rehabilitate inmates, and serves as a grounds for early release (keeping in mind that it costs, on average, around $47,000 anually to incarcerate someone), or to keep them incarcerated for a longer duration of time, with a high lik,elyhood that they'll re-offend once released, and wind up back in prison for another stretch, once again forcing the population to incur the costs of their incarceration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The point is if you can capture a criminal audience who catches fire and gets postive self image from learning while in the clink, rather than trying to shank someone, perhaps they come out and find a life of employment and propersity- and maybe their debt to society is repaid as these educated ex-cons get involved wiht youth and other at risk Americans to keep them out of jail and in school, or in job training. Maybe the repayment is not going back to prison, rather manning up and paying your bills the honest way. Many of these guys were dealt a **** life, **** family, **** friends, **** situation- We might be amazed what is inside some of those criminal given teh chance to success, rather than rob and steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 that may very well be the case. Some tigers do not change their stripes, and it would be naive to think otherwise- but if you can capture a few turnarounds, the program would be well worth it IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 that may very well be the case. Some tigers do not change their stripes, and it would be naive to think otherwise- but if you can capture a few turnarounds, the program would be well worth it IMO. So how much taxpayer money are you willing to waste for a few turnarounds? That's the problem with the liberal mindset. The cost to make people feel good often outweighs the outcomes exponentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) So how much taxpayer money are you willing to waste for a few turnarounds? That's the problem with the liberal mindset. The cost to make people feel good often outweighs the outcomes exponentially. I would cite Tasker's point about offenders leaving only to be back in the system again, simple because the skills they have coming out are only conducive to hustling again. I am not suggesting that you offer the program to everyone in prison, but I have to believe there are offenders that fit a profile that makes them more likely to be chnaged by education programs. Plus there could be a way to earn/ pay back your degree by picking up extra work cleaning up bathroom, or painting prison walls, or cleaning up roads.. something... It isn't just about feeling good, its about attempting programs that improve the goal of our prison system- rehabilitation... may it works maybe is doesn't, but that doesn't mean don't try. Edited February 21, 2014 by B-Large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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