OCinBuffalo Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I've thought of a solution for the equity problem, but I dunno: Permanent community service for the reciever of the free education. Bear with me: if there's anything that government has proven lately, it is that it's incompetent. Having a state-sponsored MBA prison reform program, means that MBA(assuming all goes well) will be outside of government, gaining competence. His/her service could therefore be things like: running weekend clinics on "how to manage an IT project, and when it's time to realize that you can't". I mean, that's a semester course for government people right there. On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm a big fan of indentured government servitude, but, then, there's the victims to consider. And, the state taxpayer, who has nothing to do with any of this....like I said, I dunno.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 To be completely honest, this is something I'm a bit torn over. If our goals surrounding the prison system are truly inclusive of rehabilitation then these sorts of programs have value. If we don't provide a platform for true opportunity upon exiting the prison system, then every sentence is a life sentence, to some degree, as we incentivize recidivism. Is an MBA program the answer? I don't know, but I certainly don't mind seeing a state run a pilot program. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I've thought of a solution for the equity problem, but I dunno: Permanent community service for the reciever of the free education. Bear with me: if there's anything that government has proven lately, it is that it's incompetent. Having a state-sponsored MBA prison reform program, means that MBA(assuming all goes well) will be outside of government, gaining competence. His/her service could therefore be things like: running weekend clinics on "how to manage an IT project, and when it's time to realize that you can't". I mean, that's a semester course for government people right there. On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm a big fan of indentured government servitude, but, then, there's the victims to consider. And, the state taxpayer, who has nothing to do with any of this....like I said, I dunno.... I can see both your point and Tasker's. How about treating the cost of the education as if it were a student loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I can see both your point and Tasker's. How about treating the cost of the education as if it were a student loan? The big issue with that plan is when do you levy the costs, and how do you expect to get paid? Once they're out, very few former inmates are going to care about paying back the state. If you put a lien against their inmate account for the costs prior to release, it will be one of many liens on their inmate account being paid off with their prison wages (which is pennies per hour - the top earners make somewhere around 15-20 cents per hour) or shifting the costs onto their families, if they even have family support. Either way, the money recouped at best would be insignificant, and at worse the debt would be counterproductive. Saddling people with a mound of extra debt upon release from prison (over and above any outstanding fines, surcharges and restitution) doesn't help them in the ultimate goal of leading a law abiding life. Edited February 18, 2014 by Koko78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) What doesn't work is letting inmates do nothing. That guarantees that inmates come out of prison in much worse shape than when they went in. Will many take advantage of an education program? Probably not but some doing it will be better than none. I have a relative who spent a lot of time in the NYS penal system. In his 7 years (straight), he had a team of family members who had to lobby, break balls, and pay to get him access to correspondence courses at a real school. It worked out well for him (he had an associates in prison from University of Ohio) and he's just about got a BS now from [good school] and he's applying to doctoral programs. But we had to work the system hard and it fought us every step of the way. Penal systems don't work to make a single thing better: They just create a bigger problem. There are practical problems like cost. I'm not privy to the penal system budget (more specifically, I don't care to do the research) but offering an associates from SUNY would not cost that much...maybe make the inmates work for it while in jail. You want a degree? Do some work. Edited February 18, 2014 by John Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 The big issue with that plan is when do you levy the costs, and how do you expect to get paid? Once they're out, very few former inmates are going to care about paying back the state. If you put a lien against their inmate account for the costs prior to release, it will be one of many liens on their inmate account being paid off with their prison wages (which is pennies per hour - the top earners make somewhere around 15-20 cents per hour) or shifting the costs onto their families, if they even have family support. Either way, the money recouped at best would be insignificant, and at worse the debt would be counterproductive. Saddling people with a mound of extra debt upon release from prison (over and above any outstanding fines, surcharges and restitution) doesn't help them in the ultimate goal of leading a law abiding life. How much does it cost the government, society and the always forgotten victims if the prisoners get out of jail and commit another crime? This government investment could pay for itself easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 The big issue with that plan is when do you levy the costs, and how do you expect to get paid? Once they're out, very few former inmates are going to care about paying back the state. If you put a lien against their inmate account for the costs prior to release, it will be one of many liens on their inmate account being paid off with their prison wages (which is pennies per hour - the top earners make somewhere around 15-20 cents per hour) or shifting the costs onto their families, if they even have family support. Either way, the money recouped at best would be insignificant, and at worse the debt would be counterproductive. Saddling people with a mound of extra debt upon release from prison (over and above any outstanding fines, surcharges and restitution) doesn't help them in the ultimate goal of leading a law abiding life. Why should they be more special than a normal college student with student loans? Hell, keep them on probation until they pay it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 University of Hard Knocks. The real U! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 University of Hard Knocks. The real U! But the post-grad work pays ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Why should they be more special than a normal college student with student loans? Hell, keep them on probation until they pay it back. That wouldn't be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 That wouldn't be legal. That's nothing an impromptu statement at a press conference won't fix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 That's nothing an impromptu statement at a press conference won't fix... Let me be clear: If you like your legally-imposed sentence, you can keep your legally-imposed sentence. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Why don't we start by just making sure the prison population is just as literate as the rest of society? Then we can work on getting GED's. Why are we so worried about MBA's when the 99.9% of the prison population will never get one? Baby steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 MBA's? Start with teaching them the foreign concept of getting up and getting to work on time every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 MBA's? Start with teaching them the foreign concept of getting up and getting to work on time every day. /facepalm They don't start with the MBA, it comes after a Bachelor's, which comes after a GED, which comes after getting up and turning out for count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckinny Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 nothing but class warfare at its finest. How much more can the middle class handle on their backs, especially in this state! What's next athletic scholarships for prison sport teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 nothing but class warfare at its finest. How much more can the middle class handle on their backs, especially in this state! What's next athletic scholarships for prison sport teams? What the !@#$ are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 nothing but class warfare at its finest. How much more can the middle class handle on their backs, especially in this state! What's next athletic scholarships for prison sport teams? What do you propose to do about recidivism, given the current environment surrounding opporunities for individuals exiting the prison system? Do you believe it would cost less to educate an individual while they are serving their current sentence, possibly reducing their sentence, and giving them real opportunity; or do you believe it would cost less to not educate them, have them serve their full sentence, and have them return to prison for another extended sentence a year later when they re-offend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I don't mind one way or another but it does seem to be a reversal of the natural order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I don't mind one way or another but it does seem to be a reversal of the natural order. We reversed the natural order when we took criminals off the streets in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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