EasternOHBillsFan Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) I find it hard to compare guys from the 60s to guys from today because so much about the game has changed. Not only are the skills required to succeed at QB vastly different today from what they were at that time, but the level of competition has increased exponentially. Johnny Unitis may have been the greatest QB ever relative to the competition in his day and time, but can you really say definitively that he'd dominate in today's game? And by contrast, would the top QBs today thrive under the old rules? That's why I think Marino and Favre are vastly underrated. Their stats from the the previous century would still be respectable by todays standards and they were the only ones putting up those numbers back then. And in the case of Favre, by putting up his best statistical season ever at the age of 39 he proved that his game translates. I don't think any top 5 list is complete without these guys. I agree with your point about Kelly, but no, that is not how I judge the great ones. I try to base that on a totality of the circumstances analysis as best I can. Johnny Unitas was a 10 time Pro Bowler, won 4 championships, 4 MVP awards, and was one of the toughest QBs the NFL has ever had over THREE decades. He only lost 1 title game as a starter, being screwed out of Super Bowl III and thus Shula gets fired. The rules changed making it EASIER to score points and to protect your QB, not harder. What Johnny U did is simply amazing. Edited January 15, 2014 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Johnny Unitas was a 10 time Pro Bowler, won 4 championships, 4 MVP awards, and was one of the toughest QBs the NFL has ever had over THREE decades. He only lost 1 title game as a starter, being screwed out of Super Bowl III and thus Shula gets fired. Did Shula get fired?!? I always assumed he just wanted to go to Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Did Shula get fired?!? I always assumed he just wanted to go to Miami. He left ... http://fs64sports.blogspot.com/2010/02/1970-don-shula-leaves-colts-for.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Unitas Montana Jurgensen Marino Favre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I find it hard to compare guys from the 60s to guys from today because so much about the game has changed. Not only are the skills required to succeed at QB vastly different today from what they were at that time, but the level of competition has increased exponentially. Johnny Unitis may have been the greatest QB ever relative to the competition in his day and time, but can you really say definitively that he'd dominate in today's game? And by contrast, would the top QBs today thrive under the old rules? That's why I think Marino and Favre are vastly underrated. Their stats from the the previous century would still be respectable by todays standards and they were the only ones putting up those numbers back then. And in the case of Favre, by putting up his best statistical season ever at the age of 39 he proved that his game translates. I don't think any top 5 list is complete without these guys. I agree with your point about Kelly, but no, that is not how I judge the great ones. I try to base that on a totality of the circumstances analysis as best I can. I agree with you about Favre. Perhaps it's just the hater in me speaking, but I think Marino crumbled in the big games as he showed over and over against the Bills. He was absolutely great, but he could be beaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 1. Montana 2. Unitas 3. P Manning 4. Favre 5. Brady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I agree that these things have to be considered. But for instance with Graham how much of his success had to do with the fact that pass defending wasn't really developed or understood at that time? Yes, it was revolutionary, but are we talking about great QB's or great strategists? I think all kinds of factors have to be considered, but it's silly to compare guys from completely different eras. If we cannot compare players from different eras, than the topic should not contain the words "all time". Modern era quarterbacks might not even survive if they played by the rules from the 50's and 60's. You make a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Favre is junk and has zero business on any such list. All-time TD pass leader - true - and the all-time INTERCEPTION thrower too. He doesn't even remotely compare. Peyton's problem is that he has generally not been good in the playoffs - and specifically he was carried by his team to his one Super Bowl win. Marino had little playoff success, but his teams weren't that good. I think the OP was pretty close - but I'd put Sammy Baugh up there for: Johnny Unitas Joe Montana Sammy Baugh Otto Graham Tom Brady John Elway/Dan Marino both just miss. Looking at a "Wiki" list of qb's with the most career wins, Favre is #1. He could not have sucked! Like it or not this is more of an opinion list, since stats do not mean a lot when comparing the old NFL to today. Interesting thread though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Looking at a "Wiki" list of qb's with the most career wins, Favre is #1. He could not have sucked! Like it or not this is more of an opinion list, since stats do not mean a lot when comparing the old NFL to today. Interesting thread though. The reason Favre had the most wins is because he also played the most games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 The reason Favre had the most wins is because he also played the most games. I am not saying he should be on the list, just pointing out he was not "junk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) The reason Favre had the most wins is because he also played the most games. Most games played by QBs: Brett Favre 302 Earl Morrall 255 Fran Tarkenton 246 Dan Marino 242 Peyton Manning 240 John Elway 234 Vinny Testaverde 233 John Hadl 224 Sonny Jurgensen 218 Dave Krieg 213 Johnny Unitas 211 Len Dawson 211 Warren Moon 208 Steve DeBerg 206 Y. A. Tittle 203 Craig Morton 203 John Brodie 201 Jim Hart 201 Edited January 15, 2014 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 He left ... http://fs64sports.bl...-colts-for.html Thanks. Very interesting read. I do remember him turning around the Dolphins immediately. I was 8 years old and couldn't understand it. What?!? The Dolphins always stink. They, the Bills and the Patriots all did in my first few years of knowing football. My father said it's because of the coach. He really knows what he's doing and got the players he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Thanks. Very interesting read. I do remember him turning around the Dolphins immediately. I was 8 years old and couldn't understand it. What?!? The Dolphins always stink. They, the Bills and the Patriots all did in my first few years of knowing football. My father said it's because of the coach. He really knows what he's doing and got the players he wanted. I often wonder if Tony Dungy was an overrated coach. Even a Caldwell-led team went 14-2 with P. Manning. I don't blame the Colts' collapse sans Manning on Caldwell. He was set up to fail. There's a difference between "not having Manning," and "having Curtis Painter." But I wonder how, with a QB like Manning, could the Colts only win one Super Bowl. I think it takes a great coach AND a great QB in order to create a dynasty. Teams win the Super Bowl without both on occasion. But most winning teams have both, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) 6 Jerry Rice* WR ^ 1985–2004 303 32 Irving Fryar WR 1984–2000 255 32 Tim Brown WR 1988–2004 255 45 Ricky Proehl WR 1990–2006 244 59 Charlie Joiner* WR 1969–1986 239 74 Andre Reed WR 1985–2000 234 74 Cris Carter* WR 1987–2002 234 82 James Lofton* WR 1978–1993 233 90 Derrick Mason WR 1997-2011 230 94 Henry Ellard WR 1983–1998 228 109 Art Monk* WR 1980–1995 224 120 Isaac Bruce WR 1994–2009 223 131 Terrell Owens WR 1996–2010 219 The reason Favre had the most wins is because he also played the most games. Jerry Rice played 50 more games than the next closest WR. Edited January 15, 2014 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I would say Kelly gets unfairly downgraded here because of fears that we are "homers," and elsewhere because he never won a Super Bowl. But because he started the "hurry up" offense that is used by everyone now, I think he belongs in the conversation. Also, any other QB get to 4 straight Super Bowls. NOPE. Winning a conference is very hard to do, I think that gets overlooked when discussing Kelly. Kelly: Inventor of the hurry-up offense. Great under pressure. Perhaps the toughest QB to ever play the game. He often blocked for the RB's. And clutch at the end of the game. This not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) The reason Favre had the most wins is because he also played the most games. In a way, that makes it more impressive. The guy rarely got hurt and was able to play for a long time. That's very impressive on his part. I am not saying he should be on the list, just pointing out he was not "junk". Are you talking about Farve in his crocs? Edited January 15, 2014 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Johnny Unitas was a 10 time Pro Bowler, won 4 championships, 4 MVP awards, and was one of the toughest QBs the NFL has ever had over THREE decades. He only lost 1 title game as a starter, being screwed out of Super Bowl III and thus Shula gets fired. The rules changed making it EASIER to score points and to protect your QB, not harder. What Johnny U did is simply amazing. I'm not disputing any of that. None of this, however, takes into account the fact that the game is faster, players are bigger & more athletic, and the competition to play NFL football is far greater than it has ever been making the talent level considerably higher than it was in the olden days. I don't claim Unitis couldn't dominate the league now, it's just hard to quantify & compare guys who played in vastly different eras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Buffalo Barbarbian's top 5: 1) Blake Bortles 2) Ryan Tannehill 3) Landry Jones 4) Blaine Gabbert 5) Casey Pachuall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Buffalo Barbarbian's top 5: 1) Blake Bortles 2) Ryan Tannehill 3) Landry Jones 4) Blaine Gabbert 5) Casey Pachuall Wrong, wrong, wrong! 1. John Skelton 2. Bortles 3. Landry Jones 4. Tannehill 5. Ryan Mallet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Wrong, wrong, wrong! 1. John Skelton 2. Bortles 3. Landry Jones 4. Tannehill 5. Ryan Mallet Huge error on my part. How can I forget about John Skleton??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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