Doc Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Why are people so quick to jump to extremes when discussing socialized programs? There's examples of socialized medicine and/or single payer systems that work well elsewhere, but when we discuss it here people either jump to "why not give everyone free tvs!" or "oh great, they'll ban drinking!" Have these things happened in other countries? If only countries were the exact same as each other. but you said nothing will change, unless individuals change. you made that statement in reference to the alleged inability of health care systems to change behavior. are you now conceding that's incorrect? Taxing the bejezus out of cigarettes has what to do with health care systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Taxing the bejezus out of cigarettes has what to do with health care systems? it's public policy at least in part based on public health concerns. it's known that every $1 of tax results in 5-10% decline in sales. more in younger smokers. it illustrates the point that behavior can be modified on an entire population with only minor changes to the system. and it refutes your point that only individuals can change. populations can be influenced to change to healthier habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 it's public policy at least in part based on public health concerns. it's known that every $1 of tax results in 5-10% decline in sales. more in younger smokers. it illustrates the point that behavior can be modified on an entire population with only minor changes to the system. and it refutes your point that only individuals can change. populations can be influenced to change to healthier habits. Well then let's just add a $20 tax on soft drinks and fast food and be done with it. We'll all be thin and healthy and we can all ride off in the sunset on our rainbow farting uincorn singing kumbaya. BTW you post was one of the dumbest things I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 it illustrates the point that behavior can be modified on an entire population with only minor changes to the system. and individual rights be damned...................... thats not even a consideration for you is it ? "we know whats best " mentality at its finest. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 it's public policy at least in part based on public health concerns. it's known that every $1 of tax results in 5-10% decline in sales. more in younger smokers. it illustrates the point that behavior can be modified on an entire population with only minor changes to the system. and it refutes your point that only individuals can change. populations can be influenced to change to healthier habits. By that logic, high speed internet, being more expensive, should result in less stupid **** posted on the internet. Clearly that's not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) and individual rights be damned...................... thats not even a consideration for you is it ? "we know whats best " mentality at its finest. . yup. we know, without a shadow of a doubt that in terms of health and medical costs, not smoking is better than smoking. the true costs to society aren't nearly covered by the current taxes on cigarettes. Edited April 30, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 yup. we know, without a shadow of a doubt that in terms of health and medical costs, not smoking is better than smoking. the true costs to society aren't nearly covered by the current taxes on cigarettes. We're not talking smoking you dumbass. We're talking about you taking the leap from that to taxing people into healthier life choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 We're not talking smoking you dumbass. We're talking about you taking the leap from that to taxing people into healthier life choices. i was talking about smoking. it's an example of what you're hell bent on disparaging. dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 i was talking about smoking. it's an example of what you're hell bent on disparaging. dumbass. Then what on earth did you mean with this doozy? and health care providers and systems can help change individual and population behaviors as can other factors such as financial disincentives or incentives for lifestyle change or laws regulating behavior.. cigarette sales have decreased considerably in recent years, that didn't happen by accident. Laws regulating behavior Gracie?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Then what on earth did you mean with this doozy? Laws regulating behavior Gracie?? um, yes. and taxing smoking is a stellar example of a successful disincentive. it's an example of undoubtedly knowing better. it's the example i chose to use. you chose to disagree with the entire concept. that's about it, non? Edited May 1, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 um, yes. and taxing smoking is a stellar example of a successful disincentive. it's the example i chose to use. you chose to disagree with the entire concept. that's about it, non? No people dying horrible deaths from cigarettes and pointing that out to people is the disincentive. Educating people on how many packets of sugar are in a soda is going do disenctivize people not raising their drink by $1.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 yup. we know, without a shadow of a doubt that in terms of health and medical costs, not smoking is better than smoking. the true costs to society aren't nearly covered by the current taxes on cigarettes. Then make cigarettes illegal or STFU about taxing it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Chicago and NYC are about to ban the e-cigarettes now too. They say that it ishard to tell the difference between the real cigarettes and e-cigs. They also say that it confuses kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Chicago and NYC are about to ban the e-cigarettes now too. They say that it ishard to tell the difference between the real cigarettes and e-cigs. They also say that it confuses kids. More likely it cuts into tax revenue. "Hard to tell the difference..." What the !@#$ does that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) The Four Components Of An ACA (Obamacare) Health Plan: 1. High monthly premiums. 2. No out of network benefits. 3. High annual deductibles. 4. High copayments. Go to a doctor. Submit a medical claim. Get no financial benefit. The for profit health care insurance companies get to keep your money. "Change Idiots Fell For" Edited May 1, 2014 by PearlHowardman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The Four Components Of An ACA (Obamacare) Health Plan: 1. High monthly premiums. 2. No out of network benefits. 3. High annual deductibles. 4. High copayments. Go to a doctor. Submit a medical claim. Get no financial benefit. The for profit health care insurance companies get to keep your money. "Change Idiots Fell For" Hmmmmm, now where have I heard these bullet points before?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The Four Components Of An ACA (Obamacare) Health Plan: 1. High monthly premiums. 2. No out of network benefits. 3. High annual deductibles. 4. High copayments. Go to a doctor. Submit a medical claim. Get no financial benefit. The for profit health care insurance companies get to keep your money. "Change Idiots Fell For" Hardly. You forgot to blame godless Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Then make cigarettes illegal or STFU about taxing it more. ironic considering many of the cons here defended a man that called for the reinstitution of slavery, yet are outraged at taxing cigarettes. it seems moral outrage is extremely selective and illogical in your little knitting circle. and once again ya'll either miss or ignore the real point here. life expectancy numbers in america could improve significantly with small public health/policy changes. it is therefore reasonable to compare the numbers in the US to those in other countries. the only US exceptionalism to blame is the almost unique stance of not having the will to disincentivize self destructive behavior to the extent many other countries do. Edited May 1, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 ironic considering many of the cons here defended a man that called for the reinstitution of slavery, yet are outraged at taxing cigarettes. it seems moral outrage is extremely selective and illogical in your little knitting circle. and once again ya'll either miss or ignore the real point here. life expectancy numbers in america could improve significantly with small public health/policy changes. it is therefore reasonable to compare the numbers in the US to those in other countries. the only US exceptionalism to blame is the almost unique stance of not having the will to disincentivize self destructive behavior to the extent many other countries do. Who was calling for the reinstitution of slavery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Who was calling for the reinstitution of slavery? No one. Bird dog always has trouble defending his statements, so he frequently "re-interpretes" what other posters say. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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