SUNTANBILLSFAN Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Im still pissed at how we had 6 shots at taking Tom Brady and we overlooked him... This made me laugh and I can't believe that We passed on that Kiko guy in the first round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 My son regifted a Bills calendar to me this Christmas (he got if from his secret santa at work). On the cover was TJ. The January picture is Mark Anderson. It's going to be a long year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I'm still pissed they picked Maybin. It is common knowledge that Jauron pushed for him, and others didn't want the pick. One of the reasons DJ is gone. I don't know how anyone can look at this past draft and not call it very good after one year. Of course, it conflicts with people's desire to B word and whine about stuff that happened 5 or 10 years ago, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Well, we also passed on Wilson and Foles in the same round... One miss is hinsdight, but all 3? ANd we really needed a QB Seriously?! So NOW Bills fans are officially allowed to start pining away for Nick Foles? The same Nick Foles who had an "EJ Manuel" type forgettable rookie season in 2012 even though he had a 14 year veteran head coach/offensive/QB guru Andy Reid as his head coach? The same Nick Foles who wasn't even Chip Kelley's starting QB at the start of the year? The same Nick Foles who wasn't as good as EJ Manuel was in college? This board is ridiculous if people start bringing up Foles and not seeing the irony that Philly fans were saying the same thing about Foles as Bills fans are saying about Manuel not even 3 months ago. Anyone bringing up Nick Foles' name should only be doing so to point out Nick Foles as a reason WHY EJ Manuel can realistically become a top QB as quickly as his second season if given the right coaches and players. I'm convinced that EJ Manuel would have been an Eagle if he landed at their 2nd round pick. I listen to a lot of Philly sports radio (because the Bills radio people suck), it was no secret that Chip Kelley was not a fan of Foles. In fact, Kelley recruited EJ Manuel and Manuel turned him down because he wanted to stay closer to home. I'm also convinced that EJ Manuel would have had a great rookie year if the Eagles took him, Vick went down and he was pressed into starting. Don't forget, rookie EJ Manuel had to deal with two unimaginative and conservative rookie NFL coaches guiding him. Edited January 5, 2014 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 What is the point? He was the 13th wr off the board. Good for him good for the Colts. Every draft pick is a lottery pick some work out and some don't. Here is a question along the topic... Does every player that succeeds or fails do so on their own or does team, scheme, and surrounding talent also contribute? There is no guarantee that t.y. wouldn't perform at the level of t.j. If he was drafted by the Bills. Seriously?! So NOW Bills fans are officially allowed to start pining away for Nick Foles? The same Nick Foles who had an "EJ Manuel" type forgettable rookie season in 2012 even though he had a 14 year veteran head coach/offensive/QB guru Andy Reid as his head coach? The same Nick Foles who wasn't even Chip Kelley's starting QB at the start of the year? The same Nick Foles who wasn't as good as EJ Manuel was in college? This board is ridiculous if people start bringing up Foles and not seeing the irony that Philly fans were saying the same thing about Foles as Bills fans are saying about Manuel not even 3 months ago. Anyone bringing up Nick Foles' name should only be doing so to point out Nick Foles as a reason WHY EJ Manuel can realistically become a top QB as quickly as his second season if given the right coaches and players. I'm convinced that EJ Manuel would have been an Eagle if he landed at their 2nd round pick. I listen to a lot of Philly sports radio (because the Bills radio people suck), it was no secret that Chip Kelley was not a fan of Foles. In fact, Kelley recruited EJ Manuel and Manuel turned him down because he wanted to stay closer to home. I'm also convinced that EJ Manuel would have had a great rookie year if the Eagles took him, Vick went down and he was pressed into starting. Don't forget, rookie EJ Manuel had to deal with two unimaginative and conservative rookie NFL coaches guiding him. All this thinking of player equivalence is typical in these discussions. TY and TJ are the same except one ends up in Indy and the other Buffalo. EJ is the same or better than Foles except he too ended up in Buffalo, where his potential highest passer rating in the NFL season was ruined by the rookie coaching staff. Why do you say EJ was a better player coming out of college? Was it their stats? Was it these scouting notes? Not a natural passer Decision-making Field vision Struggles to work through progressions Runs to quickly Spotty accuracy Can panic at times Didn't play as well against good defenses Reid is no "QB guru"--that's laughable. And why would Philly fans be down on Foles 3 moths ago when he was on the bench as the backup? That makes no sense. Vick is the guy they were down on--they needed a real NFL starter. From the minute Foles came in for game 5 their prayers were answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It is common knowledge that Jauron pushed for him, and others didn't want the pick. One of the reasons DJ is gone. I don't know how anyone can look at this past draft and not call it very good after one year. Of course, it conflicts with people's desire to B word and whine about stuff that happened 5 or 10 years ago, but whatever. I don't know how you call a draft very good after that year just ended. Is it promising? I suppose. It ALL hinges on EJ. Early returns? Very Good? Not so much. We'll see. Bitching and whining, while tedious, is fully warranted if you're a Bills fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) I have no problem with the Bills continuing with Manuel--really, it's their only plan, so I am on board. I just didn't see a progression form the scouting report weaknesses to what we saw this year. Also, why were the Philly fans "impatient" with Foles, when he was backing up Vick? Makes no sense--who gets "impatient" with a guy standing on the sidelines with a baseball cap on? That sounds kind of ridiculous. Maybe they were "impatient" for Foles to take over for the awful Mike Vick. Because as soon as Foles came in, he was lighting it up for the rest of the year, so what on earth were they complaining about? Edited January 5, 2014 by Beerball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It's going to be a long offseason around here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 All 3 are hindsight, So people cannot be held accountable for doing their jobs epically bad??? We traded up for a WR who Kiper had as a 7th rounder (Kiper was obviously right) and the next WR off the board is an instant stud. Plus we passed on two great QBs while needing a QB. Complaining about lack of accountabilty is not hindsight. We also cut DaRick Rodgers - is saying we should have kept him hindsight too? The guy was a stud in college and I'm not supirsed he is producing in Indy. Its not hindsight, its accountability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 All this thinking of player equivalence is typical in these discussions. TY and TJ are the same except one ends up in Indy and the other Buffalo. I didn't say they were the same. However at a position that is dependent on so many other factors besides just talent I'm saying there is no guarantee that t.y. Does what he has done with Fitzpatrick, Manuel, Lewis, and tuel throwing him the ball as opposed to Luck, indoors, in that offense. You didn't answer my question though. Either of them. What is the point? More bitching and complaining? Obviously the Bills have had more hits than misses or they wouldn't have missed the playoffs for 14 straight years. T.y. More than likely would have been the better pick but again every team misses in every draft. Especially when deciding between the 12th and 13th player at a position in a draft. Again I will point out in thy same draft the niners blew a first round pick on a guy they have up on before the start of the very next season at t.y. Hilton's position. It happens. So people cannot be held accountable for doing their jobs epically bad??? We traded up for a WR who Kiper had as a 7th rounder (Kiper was obviously right) and the next WR off the board is an instant stud. Plus we passed on two great QBs while needing a QB. Complaining about lack of accountabilty is not hindsight. We also cut DaRick Rodgers - is saying we should have kept him hindsight too? The guy was a stud in college and I'm not supirsed he is producing in Indy. Its not hindsight, its accountability. Other than Rogers there has been accountability none of the people that made the decision are still here. If Hilliard was the one that made the call on Rogers then maybe there was accountability there too. I have no idea so I won't argue that but there is a new gm, hc, oc, and director of scouting since that selection. They all lost their jobs. That's not accountability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) So people cannot be held accountable for doing their jobs epically bad??? We traded up for a WR who Kiper had as a 7th rounder (Kiper was obviously right) and the next WR off the board is an instant stud. Plus we passed on two great QBs while needing a QB. Complaining about lack of accountabilty is not hindsight. We also cut DaRick Rodgers - is saying we should have kept him hindsight too? The guy was a stud in college and I'm not supirsed he is producing in Indy. Its not hindsight, its accountability. Player performance can NOT be evaluated in a vacuum. Assuming that TY Hilton would be performing as well on the Bills, and that TJ Graham would be performing "poorly" on the Colts, is a huge logical fallacy. Give Graham the Colts offense and Andrew Luck and we'll see. Kelvin Sheppard made some plays for the Colts in a playoff game. Should we trade Hughes back? Tashard Choice had 5 carries and was alright last night. Da'Rick had one nice catch, and one crucial drop. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe those players would have been the key to the Bills making the playoffs, someone should be held accountable... Build a bridge and get over it, time to move on. It's ALL hindsight. Edited January 5, 2014 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I didn't say they were the same. However at a position that is dependent on so many other factors besides just talent I'm saying there is no guarantee that t.y. Does what he has done with Fitzpatrick, Manuel, Lewis, and tuel throwing him the ball as opposed to Luck, indoors, in that offense. You didn't answer my question though. Either of them. What is the point? More bitching and complaining? Obviously the Bills have had more hits than misses or they wouldn't have missed the playoffs for 14 straight years. T.y. More than likely would have been the better pick but again every team misses in every draft. Especially when deciding between the 12th and 13th player at a position in a draft. Again I will point out in thy same draft the niners blew a first round pick on a guy they have up on before the start of the very next season at t.y. Hilton's position. It happens. Well....Woods looks like a great WR pick, and he did pretty well, despite being picked by Buffalo. Why? Because he, like TY, was a very productive WR in college. TJ was a return man who also played WR and who, by his own admission, said "people say I can't catch"--before the draft. Also, pointing out that top teams also miss on picks isn't very relevant to the discussion. It is implied that they hit on far more than they miss, whereas it is reasonable to scrutinize repeated bad misses by bad teams. It's equivalent to posters here, when defending TJ for drops, cited the fact that Megatron drops passes too--as if there is a legitmate comaprison that can otherwise be made between TJ and Calvin Johnson. Player performance can NOT be evaluated in a vacuum. Assuming that TY Hilton would be performing as well on the Bills, and that TJ Graham would be performing "poorly" on the Colts, is a huge logical fallacy. Give Graham the Colts offense and Andrew Luck and we'll see. Kelvin Sheppard made some plays for the Colts in a playoff game. Should we trade Hughes back? Tashard Choice had 5 carries and was alright last night. Da'Rick had one nice catch, and one crucial drop. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe those players would have been the key to the Bills making the playoffs, someone should be held accountable... Build a bridge and get over it, time to move on. It's ALL hindsight. Whaley knows he doesn't have Luck and the Colt's offense. He needs to take that into account when he's selecting "projects" vs impact players or playmakers who can start now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) I have no problem with the Bills continuing with Manuel--really, it's their only plan, so I am on board. I just didn't see a progression form the scouting report weaknesses to what we saw this year. Also, why were the Philly fans "impatient" with Foles, when he was backing up Vick? Makes no sense--who gets "impatient" with a guy standing on the sidelines with a baseball cap on? That sounds kind of ridiculous. Maybe they were "impatient" for Foles to take over for the awful Mike Vick. Because as soon as Foles came in, he was lighting it up for the rest of the year, so what on earth were they complaining about? Whatever "scouting report weaknesses" Manuel had, Foles must have had slightly worse ones... EJ Manuel / Florida State QB rating 150.4 Passing percentage 66.9 Yards per average 8.6 Nick Foles / Arizona QB rating 138.2 Passing percentage 66.8 Yards per average 7.2 As for the impatience levels with Bills and Philly fans, while different because of starter/backup circumstances, Philly fans saw the same flashes of good play, poor play, average play from Foles in 2012 as Bills fans saw with Manuel in 2013. Philly fans were expecting Chip Kelly to pick his QB in the 2014 draft. Almost no one in Philly thought of Foles as anything put a place holder in the 2013 season. I'm sure that that also includes Chip Kelly. So the point is that bringing up Nick Foles as a reason why the Bills are in a bad position with Manuel is simply ridiculous. You have to wait one year from now to bring up Nick Foles' name. Edited January 5, 2014 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Well, yeah….but hindsight is harder on the Bills than any other team in the NFL…..and really kind to teams playing this weekend. On the pissed meter, there's Whitner, Fina, McKelvin, Ronnie Harmon, then Maybin. They needed a pass rusher…he just turned out to be a joke. The others had clearly better players available. no, Maybin is till the biggest flop. Ask any PSU fan and they could tell you he was a one-hit-wonder, who padded his stats against Youngstown State, Costal Carolina, etc. Although the TJ pick is beginning to measure up, fortunately for him, he wasn't a 1st round pick . . . and come to think of it, as bad as he's been, he's still contributed more that Aaron Maybin ever did. Edited January 5, 2014 by CSBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Whatever "scouting report weaknesses" Manuel had, Foles must have had slightly worse ones... EJ Manuel / Florida State QB rating 150.4 Passing percentage 66.9 Yards per average 8.6 Nick Foles / Arizona QB rating 138.2 Passing percentage 66.8 Yards per average 7.2 As for the impatience levels with Bills and Philly fans, while different because of starter/backup circumstances, . This sentence is why your claim makes no sense. EJ is the starter. Foles was the backup. No one cares about the backup until he has to start. No one is impatient about the backup. As soon as he started, Foles was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 This sentence is why your claim makes no sense. EJ is the starter. Foles was the backup. No one cares about the backup until he has to start. No one is impatient about the backup. As soon as he started, Foles was fine. Nice try. This debate is about you having the gall to bring up Nick Foles name considering Manuel had the exact same up and down rookie season as Foles did a year ago. It's not about measuring fan impatience levels. Obviously the fan impatience level is greater with Manuel if for nothing else than where they were picked in the draft. But that's not the debate. Give EJ a chance to progress like Foles and leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I can't believe they traded Lamonica! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It's going to be a long offseason around here... It's a byproduct of not playing football in January/February in what seems like forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Gosh, really? I mean, I get it, playoffs are fun but whats the fun if you're like the Browns of a few years ago and know you're a lamb baste to slaughter? Any Given Sunday. The Ravens were supposed be slaughtered by the Broncos/Patriots/9ers Edited January 5, 2014 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsnut Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 IF my aunt had balls…she would be my uncle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts