Kiko was neutralized by the Pats

[BackInDaDay]

After re-watching the Bills v Pats game from week 17, it became clear that the Pats had a great game plan to neutralize Alonso and had several large running plays right at him. The pats consistently were able to get an O lineman onto Alonso and seal him away from making the tackle. Kiko had great difficulty separating from these blocks.

 

Kiko was also the target of their FB on several plays. One in particular went for a big gain by L Blount.

 

i'm curious if the plays you describe were 'counters', where the initial 'read' from a defensive perspective is that the RB is coming one way, but ends up going in the other direction.. usually with the addition of a FB leading interference. there was talk in Boston about using our aggressive style against us by baiting our LBs with false 'keys'. they were also discussing how they might overpower our smaller packages with Blount. i read this stuff after the fact, but it was pre-game stuff coming from the Patriot media. looks like they had their finger on that.

 

anyway, i wouldn't fret over Alonzo. if Pettine is as good as we think he is, he'll review, prepare and adjust the D better next season. he just has to find someone smarter than Hackett to ask "how would you attack this?"

[Prickly Pete]

I think the rain played a role in Blount having such a big game. It can favor a big, heavy RB like Blount. I'm not ready to credit the Pats coaches with discovering something that no other team might have over the course of the season.

 

I just think the conditions, coupled with a big back, and a team on the road with not much to play for, can add up to a bunch of defenders not really anxious to sacrifice their bodies to drag a slippery-wet bruiser down into a cold puddle.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro

[BackInDaDay]

I'm not ready to credit the Pats coaches with discovering something that no other team might have over the course of the season.

 

i don't think our tendencies were any secret.. other OCs found ways to beat us by formation during the season, also. but i definitely agree about the size of the RB, the weather, and the attitude their line played with.. we were mauled.

[Dragonborn10]

I'm glad others see the truth. We need to get bigger up the middle. Maybe it is Kiko and a weight program. Maybe it is a FA or a draft pick. But something has to change.

I still think Kiko is best suited outside on run downs and as the MLB in nickel/dime defenses.

[Prickly Pete]

i don't think our tendencies were any secret.. other OCs found ways to beat us by formation during the season, also. but i definitely agree about the size of the RB, the weather, and the attitude their line played with.. we were mauled.

 

I like Alonso. If he is moved to OLB, he will be even better. I wonder what kind of MLB free agents will be out there?

[ko12010]

First and foremost, Kiko was an excellent addition to the Bills this year who played great football for a first year MLB, and good football throughout the year. He will be an important and vital piece of this team as it finds future success.

 

After re-watching the Bills v Pats game from week 17, it became clear that the Pats had a great game plan to neutralize Alonso and had several large running plays right at him. The pats consistently were able to get an O lineman onto Alonso and seal him away from making the tackle. Kiko had great difficulty separating from these blocks.

 

Kiko was also the target of their FB on several plays. One in particular went for a big gain by L Blount.

 

IF Kiko is going to be our MLB, he is going to need to add some bulk. He looks about 10-15 pounds lighter now, than he did prior to the pre season. This already on a thin frame. Hopefully, gaining some weight will help him deal with all of the attention he will be getting from the opposing teams O Line.

 

IF Kiko is going to be our MLB, we may want to consider changing one of our DTs for a "space eater" type rather than a penetration type player. This may help to keep Kiko clean, and allow him to make plays with his incredible athleticism and instincts. This in no way is meant to be construed as a "get rid of Dareus" statement.

 

Another option would be to move him to a WLB position.

 

The game tape is there in how to stop Kiko, the Bills need to figure out the counter punch.

 

My apologies if this belongs in another thread. The other Kiko thread was a lot of fun, but I thought this may generate a separate discussion.

I agree with you, but this isn't just how you neutralize Kiko, it's how you can neutralize pretty much all great linebackers. If opposing teams' o lineman are able to release into the second level and get hats on our lb's, it's not good for us. And you're right, maybe the penetration type players like KW are affecting our run defense negatively (while obviously being great for pass rush/pass situations and occasional great run stops in the backfield). I'm sure Pettine will focus on fixing this issue this offseason.

[Wayne Cubed]

As a point of fact, in Pettine's scheme the "Will" or Weakside Linebacker is an Inside Linebacker not Outside. The only real OLB is Manny Lawson and he plays the more traditional 4-3 "Sam" OLB lined up over the TE. Mario plays the hybrid "Leo" OLB/DE as the Bills best pass rusher.

 

While I'm sure Kiko would preform well as the WLB, I wonder how well the Bills could find someone as intelligent and instinctive as Kiko to run the defense as that is big part of the Mike LB. Just getting a "big thumper" to fill the MLB, IMO, doesn't quite meet all the requirements.

[boyst]

I am not going to read any of this. Because it is wrong. The DL was crap. And that was the reason for kikos poor performance

[TakeYouToTasker]

I am not going to read any of this. Because it is wrong. The DL was crap. And that was the reason for kikos poor performance

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I think some run-plugging depth on the D-line would help a lot, especially on first down and short yardage situations. The guys we bring in were obliterated. These pickups can be found in FA. I also think we need to get Moats/Bradham off the field. The defense is part of the way there with the additions made this year. Now we need to add to what we have. Unfortunetly, we may have higher priority needs on the offensive side of the ball that may not be solveable in FA.

[snamsnoops]

He did lose some weight during the season. The last couple games he looked like he should have been a safety. This was a long season and i am sure he will do whats needed in the off-season to bulk up.

 

Also the kid was a rookie who took the most snaps on our team. He did an outstanding job and cant wait to see what he does in the future!

Edited January 2, 2014 by snamsnoops

[YoloinOhio]

Not sure if mentioned already but Max Bullough is a pure MLB from Michigan State who I thin would be a great draft pick for this team. Probably could be a 2nd or even 3rd pick - 6'3, 235. Has called that defense and been a coach on the field. The defense is nasty and he would bring a very strong tackling technique. He would need to add some size and strength as well for the NFL but that is common among a lot of college LBs especially past the 1st rd. Not sure why he ws suspended for the Rose Bowl but word is it might be a supplement (same thing got the OSU DE). He is very smart and known to be high character. He is also Hank Bullough's grandson

 

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=3839086

 

I think some run-plugging depth on the D-line would help a lot, especially on first down and short yardage situations. The guys we bring in were obliterated. These pickups can be found in FA. I also think we need to get Moats/Bradham off the field. The defense is part of the way there with the additions made this year. Now we need to add to what we have. Unfortunatly, we may have higher priority needs on the offensive side of the ball that may not be solveable in FA.

I think Pettine is still building the D the way he wants it. He got part of the way there with draft choices and FA signings this year but you can only do so much in one year. I think it will be closer next year.

[Cheddar's Dad]

i don't think our tendencies were any secret.. other OCs found ways to beat us by formation during the season, also. but i definitely agree about the size of the RB, the weather, and the attitude their line played with.. we were mauled.

 

If you watch the Patriots, you'll see that they use mobile linemen, those that can trap and pull, to get 3 linemen at the point of attack against two defenders and they teach those linemen to keep their legs moving after contact. They also teach their backs to keep driving. It looks like a mauling and it is. Pittsburg, in fact, did the same to Buffalo.

 

Buffalo, on the other hand employed guards that do not have the quickness or speed to pull and trap. Our LG didn't even have the ability to anchor against a bull rush. Both must be replaced.

 

Regarding defending against the Patriot's tactics, Buffalo's D-linemen must do a better job of disengaging so that they can get to the point of attack to even the body count and stiffen against the Patriots drive tactics.. They must play the run first on first and second instead of always trying to get the sack. It's really not a case of Buffalo not having run stuffers as much as a case of tactics, scheme, and attitude.

[YoloinOhio]

If you watch the Patriots, you'll see that they use mobile linemen, those that can trap and pull, to get 3 linemen at the point of attack against two defenders and they teach those linemen to keep their legs moving after contact. They also teach their backs to keep driving. It looks like a mauling and it is. Pittsburg, in fact, did the same to Buffalo.

 

Buffalo, on the other hand employed guards that do not have the quickness or speed to pull and trap. Our LG didn't even have the ability to anchor against a bull rush. Both must be replaced.

 

Regarding defending against the Patriot's tactics, Buffalo's D-linemen must do a better job of disengaging so that they can get to the point of attack to even the body count and stiffen against the Patriots drive tactics.. They must play the run first on first and second instead of always trying to get the sack. It's really not a case of Buffalo not having run stuffers as much as a case of tactics, scheme, and attitude.

Yes, they will be focused on upgrading those this year. I have noticed other teams have the same issue.

[Pirate Angel]

Our defense isn't just an aggressive attacking defense, its an over aggressive defense, meaning the pursuit so hard to the ball that they seem to forget their responsibilities. Screen plays, counters, reverses, and some other misdirection had much success on our D over the season. I like Pettine our defense has improved under him, yes it was great to have so many sacks but over all the defense wasn't that stellar.

[Campy]

We all watched. The run D was consistently bad inconsistent, except against Miami

 

Fixed

[BackInDaDay]

If you watch the Patriots, you'll see that they use mobile linemen, those that can trap and pull, to get 3 linemen at the point of attack against two defenders and they teach those linemen to keep their legs moving after contact. They also teach their backs to keep driving. It looks like a mauling and it is. Pittsburg, in fact, did the same to Buffalo.

 

Buffalo, on the other hand employed guards that do not have the quickness or speed to pull and trap. Our LG didn't even have the ability to anchor against a bull rush. Both must be replaced.

 

Regarding defending against the Patriot's tactics, Buffalo's D-linemen must do a better job of disengaging so that they can get to the point of attack to even the body count and stiffen against the Patriots drive tactics.. They must play the run first on first and second instead of always trying to get the sack. It's really not a case of Buffalo not having run stuffers as much as a case of tactics, scheme, and attitude.

 

Great post. They got to our 2nd level in a hurry - with numbers. Of the 40-something rushes the Pats attempted, our D linemen only got involved in half of the tackles. They ran past us. I think we expected more pass attempts on 1st and 2nd downs, and the Pats were ready for the combination of our rush schemes and our coverage personnel we lined up by going against their tendencies. Guess we should have seen that coming, with all the talk about them needing tp protect Brady.

 

and yes.. we definitely need to improve our agilty on our O line.

[BillsBytheBay]

I think the rain played a role in Blount having such a big game. It can favor a big, heavy RB like Blount. I'm not ready to credit the Pats coaches with discovering something that no other team might have over the course of the season.

 

I just think the conditions, coupled with a big back, and a team on the road with not much to play for, can add up to a bunch of defenders not really anxious to sacrifice their bodies to drag a slippery-wet bruiser down into a cold puddle.

I felt the same way. Not to say they "mailed it in" but they damn sure were waiting for plays to come to them.

[BADOLBILZ]

The defensive game plan for a game that was going to be played in a hurricane stunk. But thats who we are....a pressure and penetrate get to the QB first D. Cutback lanes will be there and NE did a great job exploiting us.

 

That's what the Jets were too when Pettine was there. What was the one thing you could do on the Jets? You could run it..difficult as hell to throw it. Thats what we are.

 

I think once Dareus came back things settled down. All this being said Kiko was lost and struggled. But he his a freaking beast. If you can, go back and look at the play where Mankins pulled and led up on Kiko. It was a big Blount run....but Kiko absolutely flattens Mankins and Mankins got hurt. Just a beast.

 

No concerns at all with Kiko going forward.

 

Good points by the OP.......but you are dead on.

 

This defense is all about pressuring the QB and in general, if a team with an All Pro QB is willing to settle for 120-150 yards passing and instead run the ball......in essence keeping our punchless, bottom of the league QB'ed offense in the game......you gotta' take that.

 

I'd like to see a NT added to the back end of the rotation for situational work.......but unless you can deliver free-agent-walk-year 1997 Ted Washington in a time machine you will inevitably be trading pass rush in return for that run defense and that isn't a good trade in todays NFL.

 

I'd also like to see some better LB's than Moats and Bradham in the rotation for those plays when they actually use 4 LB's...... but unless they plan to play 12 players on defense I just don't see how a non-pass rusher fits as an every down player at WLB. Kiko is a very good MLB/ILB for this scheme.

 

Frankly, the best run defense improvement this team can make is to play better offense. Kind of amazing the numbers Pettne's D put up this year considering that the offense didn't really put teams in pass-only mode. Very good year for the D.

[BADOLBILZ]

I felt the same way. Not to say they "mailed it in" but they damn sure were waiting for plays to come to them.

 

No question. The effort from this team as a whole became variable after the deflating loss to the Chiefs. They haven't rolled over completely like they did in SF and Toronto last year......but from play to play it went from steady effort to inconsistent effort.