ColdBlueNorth Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 If he could stay healthy, it would be pretty high for me for a rookie QB (which is to say around 75% confidence he could be part of the solution and not the problem) The knee injuries worry me. I like that he has a large frame because those guys can shrug off hits that can crush a smaller QB, but the knees? If he isn't wearing them now, the coaching staff should seriously consider having him wear the knee braces for protection. They are hell of a lot lighter and easy to move in than the clunky ones of old and yet they ensure the knee stays more stable from those odd angled hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 33% chance he's our starting QB 3 years from now. But I'm rooting for that 1 in 3 shot. He seems like a really good kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Confidence that he can become a good enough (and durable enough) QB to make the Bills perennial playoff contenders? 5%. I think most estimates in this thread are extremely high. For example, if you say 50%, you're basically saying you're willing to bet $100 to win $101 that EJ will be a good QB. For me, I would need the payout to be much larger than that. If I bet $100 on EJ's future, I'd want the possibility of winning $2000 at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibuya Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) He is a 50/50 guy right now I SURE hope we bring in another QB in the 2014 because this season has left me still wanting a QB in Buffalo.. EJ could develope further, but I need more then could Edited December 19, 2013 by shibuya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 You have all week to practice to throw a 6 yard bubble screen pass and you mess it up. It actually is a pretty significant warning signing. This is in week 15. It's not being a rookie. It's just not being a good football player. It's been a bit of a recurring problem. He's had some other screen passes that take the runner off his route and either allow a defender to catch him from behind or prevent him from following his blocks. To be fair, we don't know how much time they've spent practicing screens. From the mediocre blocking that tends to take place I'm guessing the coaching staff doesn't put too much emphasis on these plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerdown Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 He can be average. His accuracy will keep him from being any better than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 We hoped, we wished and It was a nice experiment... But I fear, EJ is made of glass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 This thread has highlighted a very interesting situation relating to how TSW has been functioning.....at least to my eyes. According to the responses here, a vast majority(around 80%) see a reasonable chance(to varying degrees) that EJ can still become a top 10 QB. There were a couple of people voicing total confidence, and the rest basically have no confidence in him. This means that the vast majority of people see enough positives to have the opinion that all is not lost......but also see enough negatives to have the opinion that he may not be the answer. Effectively, they are undecided as what the future will bring. As the QB position is the most important and has the highest profile on a team, I am fairly certain that a large number of posters would like to discuss the relative merits and flaws of EJ, as well as many of the side aspects such as statistics, hope for the future, contributing factors such as coaching and injury etc, etc(or if not, at least read the discussions). Unfortunately it seems that whenever a discussion of this nature is attempted on the board, one(or more) of a handful of the posters who have determined that EJ has no chance to succeed interject into the conversation with obvious attempt to try and convince others of their point of view. Discussions then usually devolve into the merits of drawing a conclusion in regards to EJ at this early point.....and often involve the decenters mistakenly assuming that the other posters are of the opinion that EJ will indeed succeed when they are simply unconvinced of either outcome. I really don't feel that I am overstating the situation. Any discussion at all involving EJ, whether it be about his footwork, accuracy, improvement(or lack thereof), stat comparisons, injury issues, confidence levels(and how it may effect his play).......any and every discussion winds up with somebody either voicing the equivalent to "That doesn't prove anything, he will never be any good."(in a response to a positive comment on EJ)......or....."And here are some more reasons why he will never be any good"(in a response to a negative comment on EJ). I would like to plead to the people who have made up their minds already on EJ(and feel the need to convince others of the same). Please.....pretty please......please let others(the vast majority) discuss the myriad of topics relating to EJ and the QB position under the premise that he might still have a chance to become a top 10 QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 We hoped, we wished and It was a nice experiment... But I fear, EJ is made of glass... Well at least Kolb mentored him for something in that short period before... and Hondo reflects my sentiments in general" 33% chance he's our starting QB 3 years from now. But I'm rooting for that 1 in 3 shot. He seems like a really good kid. " This thread has highlighted a very interesting situation relating to how TSW has been functioning.....at least to my eyes. According to the responses here, a vast majority(around 80%) see a reasonable chance(to varying degrees) that EJ can still become a top 10 QB. There were a couple of people voicing total confidence, and the rest basically have no confidence in him. This means that the vast majority of people see enough positives to have the opinion that all is not lost......but also see enough negatives to have the opinion that he may not be the answer. Effectively, they are undecided as what the future will bring. As the QB position is the most important and has the highest profile on a team, I am fairly certain that a large number of posters would like to discuss the relative merits and flaws of EJ, as well as many of the side aspects such as statistics, hope for the future, contributing factors such as coaching and injury etc, etc(or if not, at least read the discussions). Unfortunately it seems that whenever a discussion of this nature is attempted on the board, one(or more) of a handful of the posters who have determined that EJ has no chance to succeed interject into the conversation with obvious attempt to try and convince others of their point of view. Discussions then usually devolve into the merits of drawing a conclusion in regards to EJ at this early point.....and often involve the decenters mistakenly assuming that the other posters are of the opinion that EJ will indeed succeed when they are simply unconvinced of either outcome. I really don't feel that I am overstating the situation. Any discussion at all involving EJ, whether it be about his footwork, accuracy, improvement(or lack thereof), stat comparisons, injury issues, confidence levels(and how it may effect his play).......any and every discussion winds up with somebody either voicing the equivalent to "That doesn't prove anything, he will never be any good."(in a response to a positive comment on EJ)......or....."And here are some more reasons why he will never be any good"(in a response to a negative comment on EJ). I would like to plead to the people who have made up their minds already on EJ(and feel the need to convince others of the same). Please.....pretty please......please let others(the vast majority) discuss the myriad of topics relating to EJ and the QB position under the premise that he might still have a chance to become a top 10 QB. your and idiot maybe like . But i absolutely respect most all comments from you. where EJ Manuel settles into the Bills plan is just too early for me to call. Maybe i am a slow thinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelouie Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I'm not very optimistic from what he has showed this year. The only reason I won't say he's a bust is because I don't know if it's his fault or the coaching staff. The offensive plays look like they were drawn up by a kindergarten kid. So I hate to blame EJ at this point. I would like to see what he could do if he had a decent coaching staff. You've got college coaches trying to compete in the NFL. Marrone and his staff are in way over their heads and it's pretty obvious to anyone who understands football. Marrone would make a good used car salesman, he says all the right things when he talks to the press. But when it comes to X's and O's and game day strategy he is completely lost. He doesn't have a clue and is totally over matched going up against NFL coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I'd guess the Bills confidence level is probably high enough that EJM returns as the starter going into 2014 with a vet backup or mid round pick at QB in the upcoming draft. My own confidence level would be somewhere around that. He's probably deserving of that,unless an established franchise type QB becomes available. I'll call it cautiously optimistic. He's been OK. Not deserving of unbridled optimism or an overly pessimistic outlook. He needs to continue to improve. Year 2 will bring the picture more into focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Manuel is not a NFL caliber starting qb and never will be for reasons well documented. My only question is can the Bills blame Nix for the bad pick and move on in the next draft to take a genuine NFL caliber qb in the first round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 100% he'll continue to improve, and his knees will heal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Now my confidence in Nathaniel Hackett as an offensive coordinator is at 25%, and I'm being generous. To me this is the bigger issue with our offense. Yes.. recently we had a poster show the breakdown of Russell Wilson and his receivers making pre-snap adjustments to man coverage.. 2 split ends broke off their go routes, enabling the flanker and QB to read the safety's technique and make a play. the other day I saw an all22 of what should have been duplicated in our game against the Jags, except all our men drove themselves into deep coverage... that's just one example of how poorly our O is coordinated.. against TB, he had crossing patterns being run too deep in front of in routes, and shallow wr slants run directly behind a posted up flanker.. Hackett has to fix the little things.. details, details, details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I think its about 55%-45% for me. He has shown some solid stuff, but also some tentative stuff. This latest injury is not helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Manuel is not a NFL caliber starting qb and never will be for reasons well documented. My only question is can the Bills blame Nix for the bad pick and move on in the next draft to take a genuine NFL caliber qb in the first round? Please elaborate...with facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 My only question is can the Bills blame Nix for the bad pick and move on in the next draft to take a genuine NFL caliber qb in the first round? Just blame, baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Knee J III. Redskins fans are freaking out in DC. Would you trade EJ3 for RGIII straight up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 100 percent confident we will know in a few seasons Knee J III. Redskins fans are freaking out in DC. Would you trade EJ3 for RGIII straight up? RG3 may be turning out to be plenty of a project in his own right. I'm almost ready to say their respective pros and cons wash so I'll stick with our guy. Besides RG is just one ugly dude. Like someone lit his face on fire and put it out with a shovel ugly. It's just disturbing to look at the guy. Don't want to see that mug in weekly pressers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) We still have people here who think JP Losman was a great QB just lacking in good coaching. Manuel has played 10.5 games. I am willing to give him a little more time before deciding he can, and never will be, a starting caliber NFL QB. To my eyes he has had two truly awful games (Tampa Bay & Steelers game), one outstanding game (2nd Jets game) and 7.5 games where he played well enough in spots for me to think he has NFL starting caliber talent. But, people obsess over the awful games...you know, the argument that is always so pervasive here that goes "take away all the good things he does, and he sucks!" By my grading (admittedly not scientific) he is about a C+ to B- performer. He is about what was expected, from my understanding before the season. A coachable project, with a lot of physical talent...lets let him play a season before we crucify him. I am not blind, I have concerns about his accuracy as much as anyone. However, I am not convinced that is not something that can be improved...his truly awful performances have come when the O-line couldn't protect him early in the game...and it snowballs. With time, and coaching, I don't think it is completely unfathomable that he can improve in playing better with against a strong pass rush. Honestly, my biggest concern is the knee injuries...more so than his play on the field. In those middle tier performances, where he did some good and some bad (even the first Jets game) I am encouraged that the team either won those games, or was in them until late. Of course, that is not all necessarily because of Manuel, just as I can't dump the entire blame for the putrid performance against the Bucs at his feet..a QB out of rhythm, feeling pressure, on a team that clearly, and collectively, was not mentally prepared to play football. I understand the frustration, and I understand the constant criticisms...it is the product of continual losing. I feel that too. I just really think a lot of folks are missing out on the bigger picture with this team. I have hardly been the cheery optimist about this team over the last 5 or 6 years especially (Dick Jauron nearly murdered my love of football), but I am honestly feeling a lot better about this team today than I have in a number of years. Manuel is a part of that, but not the only part. Cliche as it is, it seems to be lost too easily that this is the ultimate team game. Let this new group of kids breathe a little...don't blame them for the sins of the past..things are going to get better sooner than later. Besides RG is just one ugly dude. Like someone lit his face on fire and put it out with a shovel ugly. It's just disturbing to look at the guy. Don't want to see that mug in weekly pressers Good football analysis! Seriously, my gf, who uses the same criterion as you are using here, thinks RGIII is adorable...go figure! Edited December 21, 2013 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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