First Round Ability or Value......which Bills?

[Bill from NYC]

I was thinking about who, imo, is playing THIS SEASON at what I deem to be first round level. By this I mean ANYWHERE in round 1.

I would also include those who I thought that another team would give up a first round pick, but I am looking for one or the other (or of course both).

 

My particular list is longer that I had thought it would be. Much longer.

 

1) Mario Williams: No explanation needed.

 

2) Kiko Alonzo: Absolutely is playing at first round level AND has first round trade value.

 

3) Leodis McKelvin: Yes, I really typed this. He was drafted WAY too early for my liking and has never lived up to his draft slot. That said, I think that he is playing this year at what I would consider good value for a late first rounder.

 

4) Marcell Dareus: Is not playing like what I would hope for in a #3 by any means but he is certainly playing like a first rounder this season.

 

5) Cordy Glenn: He is, due to his position, is playing like a top 10 draft selection. At this point, are there THAT many better left tackles in the NFL? A trade will not happen, but I think that Glenn has the highest trade value on the squad.

 

6) Kyle Williams: It was close but I would say that he deserves to be on this list.

 

7) Eric Wood: He too is solid enough to be included. He is, imo, playing up to the spot in which he was drafted this year.

 

8) Jerry Hughes: 8 sacks and 2 forced fumbles entitle him to be added to this list. The Bills have been involved in SO many close games that this alone would render most of his sacks to be key and clutch.

 

9) Jairus Byrd: OK, a bit of a reach, but he makes plays, and I appreciate his leadership back there. He grabs players and walks them away when they are involved in scuffles or verbal spats with refs.

 

The above list doesn't even allow for potential (EJ, Goodwin, Woods), nor does it allow for solid players such as FJ, Spiller, Urbik and Pears. And I put A. Williams on the edge of making the list. So, why is this team 4-8????

 

1) It's all about the QB in this league. Sad but true.

 

2) Losing Levitre cost us at least 1 win. This is a very strong opinion. And, it certainly didn't help Manuel.

 

3) Embarrassing losses like last week are killers.

 

4) Rookie head coach.

 

Please feel free to add to or subtract from this list, and I do respect the fact that our expectations from a first round draft choice will vary to a large degree.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Bill from NYC

[Captain Hindsight]

I was thinking about who, imo, is playing THIS SEASON at what I deem to be first round level. By this I mean ANYWHERE in round 1.

I would also include those who I thought that another team would give up a first round pick, but I am looking for one or the other (or of course both).

 

My particular list is longer that I had thought it would be. Much longer.

 

1) Mario Williams: No explanation needed.

 

2) Kiko Alonzo: Absolutely is playing at first round level AND has first round trade value.

 

3) Leodis McKelvin: Yes, I really typed this. He was drafted WAY too early for my liking and has never lived up to his draft slot. That said, I think that he is playing this year at what I would consider good value for a late first rounder.

 

4) Marcell Dareus: Is not playing like what I would hope for in a #3 by any means but he is certainly playing like a first rounder this season.

 

5) Cordy Glenn: He is, due to his position, is playing like a top 10 draft selection. At this point, are there THAT many better left tackles in the NFL? A trade will not happen, but I think that Glenn has the highest trade value on the squad.

 

6) Kyle Williams: It was close but I would say that he deserves to be on this list.

 

7) Eric Wood: He too is solid enough to be included. He is, imo, playing up to the spot in which he was drafted this year.

 

8) Jerry Hughes: 8 sacks and 2 forced fumbles entitle him to be added to this list. The Bills have been involved in SO many close games that this alone would render most of his sacks to be key and clutch.

 

9) Jairus Byrd: OK, a bit of a reach, but he makes plays, and I appreciate his leadership back there. He grabs players and walks them away when they are involved in scuffles or verbal spats with refs.

 

The above list doesn't even allow for potential (EJ, Goodwin, Woods), nor does it allow for solid players such as FJ, Spiller, Urbik and Pears. And I put A. Williams on the edge of making the list. So, why is this team 4-8????

 

1) It's all about the QB in this league. Sad but true.

 

2) Losing Levitre cost us at least 1 win. This is a very strong opinion. And, it certainly didn't help Manuel.

 

3) Embarrassing losses like last week are killers.

 

4) Rookie head coach.

 

Please feel free to add to or subtract from this list, and I do respect the fact that our expectations from a first round draft choice will vary to a large degree.

I think Dareus is playing at a top 3 pick level. He has been damn near unblockable at times this year. Also love what Byrd has done since coming back. He is great player and we would lose a great player if he left this offseason

 

As to why we are 4-8 really comes down to injuries at QB in particular. I do agree that losing Levitre hurts big time but if Legursky had been in there all year instead of brown we win a few more.

 

Losing EJ twice has hurt us. When he is in we as good as shot as any team in the league.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I was thinking about who, imo, is playing THIS SEASON at what I deem to be first round level. By this I mean ANYWHERE in round 1.

I would also include those who I thought that another team would give up a first round pick, but I am looking for one or the other (or of course both).

 

My particular list is longer that I had thought it would be. Much longer.

 

1) Mario Williams: No explanation needed.

 

2) Kiko Alonzo: Absolutely is playing at first round level AND has first round trade value.

 

3) Leodis McKelvin: Yes, I really typed this. He was drafted WAY too early for my liking and has never lived up to his draft slot. That said, I think that he is playing this year at what I would consider good value for a late first rounder.

 

4) Marcell Dareus: Is not playing like what I would hope for in a #3 by any means but he is certainly playing like a first rounder this season.

 

5) Cordy Glenn: He is, due to his position, is playing like a top 10 draft selection. At this point, are there THAT many better left tackles in the NFL? A trade will not happen, but I think that Glenn has the highest trade value on the squad.

 

6) Kyle Williams: It was close but I would say that he deserves to be on this list.

 

7) Eric Wood: He too is solid enough to be included. He is, imo, playing up to the spot in which he was drafted this year.

 

8) Jerry Hughes: 8 sacks and 2 forced fumbles entitle him to be added to this list. The Bills have been involved in SO many close games that this alone would render most of his sacks to be key and clutch.

 

9) Jairus Byrd: OK, a bit of a reach, but he makes plays, and I appreciate his leadership back there. He grabs players and walks them away when they are involved in scuffles or verbal spats with refs.

 

The above list doesn't even allow for potential (EJ, Goodwin, Woods), nor does it allow for solid players such as FJ, Spiller, Urbik and Pears. And I put A. Williams on the edge of making the list. So, why is this team 4-8????

 

1) It's all about the QB in this league. Sad but true.

 

2) Losing Levitre cost us at least 1 win. This is a very strong opinion. And, it certainly didn't help Manuel.

 

3) Embarrassing losses like last week are killers.

 

4) Rookie head coach.

 

Please feel free to add to or subtract from this list, and I do respect the fact that our expectations from a first round draft choice will vary to a large degree.

I think Manuel is playing like a first-rounder -- not like a top 5 bona fide starter, but perhaps like Aaron Rodgers might have played if he hadn't had the opportunity to sit for a couple of years.

 

If they had won that game last week -- largely on the arm and legs of Manuel -- instead of fumbling it all away, I think there would be little doubt over this. W-L always gets tied to the QB and it remains an unfair and unhealthy perspective.

[dayman]

I would not draft Hughes, Glenn, or McKelvin round 1 for their play this year. Although, they have not played bad.

[uncle flap]

I would not draft Hughes, Glenn, or McKelvin round 1 for their play this year. Although, they have not played bad.

 

If you think of it as "would I spend a first round pick on a guy who would get me 8 sacks and 2 ff as a situational pass rusher?" or "Would I take a guy who is one of the best/better LTs in the league?" or "Would I take a solid starting CB?" then maybe the list makes a little more sense.

 

At least that's how I was looking at it.

Edited December 7, 2013 by uncle flap

[Leelee Phoenix]

No way on McKelvin and Wood's debatable but I disagree.

 

It took one post for Manuel to come up. Thanks. He's not playing like a first-round talent. A rookie one, I guess. You can use comparable stats there for virtually everyone, and I'm sure one of you will eventually.

[LB3]

No way on McKelvin and Wood's debatable but I disagree.

 

It took one post for Manuel to come up. Thanks. He's not playing like a first-round talent. A rookie one, I guess. You can use comparable stats there for virtually everyone, and I'm sure one of you will eventually.

 

You're right. Providing stats is silly. We should all clearly just be making blanket statements about Manuel based on our own personal biases or on our need to be right about the opinions we formed from the get go.

[Captain Hindsight]

You're right. Providing stats is silly. We should all clearly just be making blanket statements about Manuel based on our own personal biases or on our need to be right about the opinions we formed from the get go.

Just put her on ignore. Makes the board much more readable

[cosmo]

Totally agree with all those 9 guys and I would say that Aaron Williams should be on that list as well, when he's playing safety. I don't know if you were ranking them in order but I would rank them like this:

 

M. Williams

Glenn

Alonso

Dareus

K. Williams

Wood

Byrd

McKelvin

Hughes

A. Williams

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I would not draft Hughes, Glenn, or McKelvin round 1 for their play this year. Although, they have not played bad.

 

IMO you don't have the term "first rounder" in fair context. We're not talking Top 5 pick here.

 

There are 32 first rounders each year. At least half of them become busts. Here are the top 7 picks from the 2009 draft. Except for one player on this list, all of these guys have busted or are viewed as disappointments:

 

Matthew Stafford

Tyson Jackson

Aaron Curry

Mark Sanchez

Andre Smith

Darrius Heyward-Bey

Eugene Monroe

 

Also your statement is oversimplified. Some of these players the OP listed would never be taken in exchange for a high first rounder but would definitely be taken in exchange for a low or mid first rounder.

 

"First rounder" is a very general and imprecise label.

 

I agree with BillfromNYC's list.

 

No way on McKelvin and Wood's debatable but I disagree.

 

It took one post for Manuel to come up. Thanks. He's not playing like a first-round talent. A rookie one, I guess. You can use comparable stats there for virtually everyone, and I'm sure one of you will eventually.

 

With every post you raise the question of how much you really know about football and if you're here with the sole purpose of being a troll.

 

Regarding McKelvin, he's been playing at an All-Pro level this year. It's obvious to anyone who watches the games. The statement that McKelvin is playing like a first rounder is not even debatable and the idea that he's not performing as one of the best cornerbacks in football is laughable.

 

McKelvin might be having the best season of any player on this football team. It's between him and Cordy Glenn in my book.

 

As for EJ, here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted:

 

Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009

Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009

Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009

Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010

Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010

Cam Newton 1st overall 2011

Jake Locker 8th overall 2011

Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011

Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011

Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012

RG3 2nd overall 2012

Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012

Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012

 

Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall.

 

Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts.

 

Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected:

 

Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden.

 

I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season.

 

Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season.

 

Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel.

 

Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected to do.

[thebandit27]

I was thinking about who, imo, is playing THIS SEASON at what I deem to be first round level. By this I mean ANYWHERE in round 1.

I would also include those who I thought that another team would give up a first round pick, but I am looking for one or the other (or of course both).

 

My particular list is longer that I had thought it would be. Much longer.

 

1) Mario Williams: No explanation needed.

 

2) Kiko Alonzo: Absolutely is playing at first round level AND has first round trade value.

 

3) Leodis McKelvin: Yes, I really typed this. He was drafted WAY too early for my liking and has never lived up to his draft slot. That said, I think that he is playing this year at what I would consider good value for a late first rounder.

 

4) Marcell Dareus: Is not playing like what I would hope for in a #3 by any means but he is certainly playing like a first rounder this season.

 

5) Cordy Glenn: He is, due to his position, is playing like a top 10 draft selection. At this point, are there THAT many better left tackles in the NFL? A trade will not happen, but I think that Glenn has the highest trade value on the squad.

 

6) Kyle Williams: It was close but I would say that he deserves to be on this list.

 

7) Eric Wood: He too is solid enough to be included. He is, imo, playing up to the spot in which he was drafted this year.

 

8) Jerry Hughes: 8 sacks and 2 forced fumbles entitle him to be added to this list. The Bills have been involved in SO many close games that this alone would render most of his sacks to be key and clutch.

 

9) Jairus Byrd: OK, a bit of a reach, but he makes plays, and I appreciate his leadership back there. He grabs players and walks them away when they are involved in scuffles or verbal spats with refs.

 

The above list doesn't even allow for potential (EJ, Goodwin, Woods), nor does it allow for solid players such as FJ, Spiller, Urbik and Pears. And I put A. Williams on the edge of making the list. So, why is this team 4-8????

 

1) It's all about the QB in this league. Sad but true.

 

2) Losing Levitre cost us at least 1 win. This is a very strong opinion. And, it certainly didn't help Manuel.

 

3) Embarrassing losses like last week are killers.

 

4) Rookie head coach.

 

Please feel free to add to or subtract from this list, and I do respect the fact that our expectations from a first round draft choice will vary to a large degree.

 

Agree with all of that.

 

Only guy I might add is Manny Lawson; he's been excellent this year.

 

 

 

IMO you don't have the term "first rounder" in fair context. We're not talking Top 5 pick here.

 

There are 32 first rounders each year. At least half of them become busts. Here are the top 7 picks from the 2009 draft. Except for one player on this list, all of these guys have busted or are viewed as disappointments:

 

Matthew Stafford

Tyson Jackson

Aaron Curry

Mark Sanchez

Andre Smith

Darrius Heyward-Bey

Eugene Monroe

 

Also your statement is oversimplified. Some of these players the OP listed would never be taken in exchange for a high first rounder but would definitely be taken in exchange for a low or mid first rounder.

 

"First rounder" is a very general and imprecise label.

 

I agree with BillfromNYC's list.

 

 

 

With every post you raise the question of how much you really know about football and if you're here with the sole purpose of being a troll.

 

Regarding McKelvin, he's been playing at an All-Pro level this year. It's obvious to anyone who watches the games. The statement that McKelvin is playing like a first rounder is not even debatable and the idea that he's not performing as one of the best cornerbacks in football is laughable.

 

McKelvin might be having the best season of any player on this football team. It's between him and Cordy Glenn in my book.

 

As for EJ, here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted:

 

Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009

Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009

Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009

Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010

Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010

Cam Newton 1st overall 2011

Jake Locker 8th overall 2011

Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011

Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011

Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012

RG3 2nd overall 2012

Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012

Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012

 

Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall.

 

Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts.

 

Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected:

 

Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden.

 

I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season.

 

Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season.

 

Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel.

 

Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected to do.

 

Ah...perspective; it's refreshing.

 

I say EJ is doing fine for a rookie. Not "great", not "very good"; "fine".

 

Making plays, showing potential, wants to win for his teammates, etc., but also making mistakes, showing room for technical improvements, etc.

 

In short, almost exactly what I expect to see from a rookie QB. I have no reason to believe he won't be a very good QB in this league in time.

 

PS-nice to see you San Jose; hope the holiday season is treating you an yours well.

Edited December 7, 2013 by thebandit27

[NoSaint]

Just put her on ignore. Makes the board much more readable

 

Is joining a very short list I have on ignore. It's gotten to the point I no longer give benefit of the doubt that it's simply differing opinions and instead that there's intentional trolling going on. Seems many are echoing this sentiment about leelee lately. Hopefully the contributions fade as the attention does.

[MarkyMannn]

Damn for a 4 and 8 club that is a lot of first rounders. All I see is Mario and Kiko

[Mr. WEO]

Bill, I think you have to separate who you might feel is playing at "first round draft" level and who would another team give up a first round pick for. Teams rarely give up 1st round picks for any vet.

 

Mario is likely one such player. Kiko maybe. I don't see any team valuing a center for their next years 1st pick, so Woods doesn't work, I think. Same for Glenn--history hasn't smiled upon teams who drafted LTs in the first.

 

If someone offered the Bills a first rounder for Byrd, I'm sure they would have taken it.

 

McKelvin? I'm sorry, no one would ever offer a first rounder for him. He has played with such mediocrity his whole career at CB (as a punt returner, he's an afterthought now) that a few decent games this year makes him suddenly seem like a superstar on a team starving for good CB play. I'm pretty sure we will be drafting a CB not past the 3rd round this year, despite the "resurgent" Leotis.

[Captain Hindsight]

As for EJ, here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted:

 

Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009

Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009

Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009

Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010

Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010

Cam Newton 1st overall 2011

Jake Locker 8th overall 2011

Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011

Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011

Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012

RG3 2nd overall 2012

Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012

Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012

 

 

 

 

 

Only Guys is would take over EJ are Stafford, Newton and Luck. Bradford has been playing better the last few years but I see EJ having a higher potential.

 

That list really highlights how many more misses than makes there are. Hopefully we made the right choice

[KOKBILLS]

I would not draft Hughes, Glenn, or McKelvin round 1 for their play this year. Although, they have not played bad.

 

Hughes I can see...He is a situational guy...McLovin is definitely playing at the level of a 1st Round CB IMHO...Maybe not a top 10...But definitely a 1st round guy...

 

And Glenn? Seriously? Cordy Glenn would go top 10 now...He's a freak athletically for his size, and now he's proven he's an NFL LT...There are VERY few players on this team I would put ahead of Glenn as far as importance goes...And he's young enough that he could get a lot better...

[BADOLBILZ]

I was thinking about who, imo, is playing THIS SEASON at what I deem to be first round level. By this I mean ANYWHERE in round 1.

I would also include those who I thought that another team would give up a first round pick, but I am looking for one or the other (or of course both).

 

My particular list is longer that I had thought it would be. Much longer.

 

1) Mario Williams: No explanation needed.

 

2) Kiko Alonzo: Absolutely is playing at first round level AND has first round trade value.

 

3) Leodis McKelvin: Yes, I really typed this. He was drafted WAY too early for my liking and has never lived up to his draft slot. That said, I think that he is playing this year at what I would consider good value for a late first rounder.

 

4) Marcell Dareus: Is not playing like what I would hope for in a #3 by any means but he is certainly playing like a first rounder this season.

 

5) Cordy Glenn: He is, due to his position, is playing like a top 10 draft selection. At this point, are there THAT many better left tackles in the NFL? A trade will not happen, but I think that Glenn has the highest trade value on the squad.

 

6) Kyle Williams: It was close but I would say that he deserves to be on this list.

 

7) Eric Wood: He too is solid enough to be included. He is, imo, playing up to the spot in which he was drafted this year.

 

8) Jerry Hughes: 8 sacks and 2 forced fumbles entitle him to be added to this list. The Bills have been involved in SO many close games that this alone would render most of his sacks to be key and clutch.

 

9) Jairus Byrd: OK, a bit of a reach, but he makes plays, and I appreciate his leadership back there. He grabs players and walks them away when they are involved in scuffles or verbal spats with refs.

 

The above list doesn't even allow for potential (EJ, Goodwin, Woods), nor does it allow for solid players such as FJ, Spiller, Urbik and Pears. And I put A. Williams on the edge of making the list. So, why is this team 4-8????

 

1) It's all about the QB in this league. Sad but true.

 

2) Losing Levitre cost us at least 1 win. This is a very strong opinion. And, it certainly didn't help Manuel.

 

3) Embarrassing losses like last week are killers.

 

4) Rookie head coach.

 

Please feel free to add to or subtract from this list, and I do respect the fact that our expectations from a first round draft choice will vary to a large degree.

 

The Kevin Kolb signing and Levitre departure were very likely all that separated the Bills from a winning record this season.

 

There were other things they could have done that would have helped in their own way(like adding a free agen t corner in a buyers market), but the gaping hole at LG cost them dearly in close games early in the season and not having a solid veteran backup QB.....because the team was inexplicably enamored with Kevin Kolb.........lead to some poor QB performances after Manuel went down.

[RuntheDamnBall]

The Kevin Kolb signing and Levitre departure were very likely all that separated the Bills from a winning record this season.

 

There were other things they could have done that would have helped in their own way(like adding a free agen t corner in a buyers market), but the gaping hole at LG cost them dearly in close games early in the season and not having a solid veteran backup QB.....because the team was inexplicably enamored with Kevin Kolb.........lead to some poor QB performances after Manuel went down.

I think finding a TE (Martellus Bennett would have been an upgrade) and another LB would have been nice, but they did an awful lot of roster overhaul to begin with. The training wheels had better be off next year, though.

[Bill from NYC]

Bill, I think you have to separate who you might feel is playing at "first round draft" level and who would another team give up a first round pick for. Teams rarely give up 1st round picks for any vet.

 

I am sorry, I thought I did just this before I listed the players.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I am sorry, I thought I did just this before I listed the players.

 

You did.

 

And good topic.

 

PS-nice to see you San Jose; hope the holiday season is treating you an yours well.

 

Best to you and yours Bandit.

 

I hope your New Year's Resolutions include a vow to stop stealing.

 

Being a robber and an outlaw is no way of life for a fundamentally good person like yourself. Unless of course you give money to people less fortunate than yourself, like me.